Can purple belts promote??
2 year(s) ago • 8140 views • 152 replies
"What criteria do you need to see for a picture to be considered a promotion picture?" Identifiable promoting instructor (with the right degree, not least two or more stripes, besides professor stripes, if promoting someone to BB) tying on the belt, holding it while you're wearing it, standing next to you and pointing your new belt it or posing next to you while you have the previous belt around your neck (lying on the ground next to you could also be ok, if nothing else is suspicious). I think instructors not issuing diplomas should even encourage their students to have that kind of picture taken with them, for future reference, if needed. They can also like or comment a social media post where you've written about them promoting you to the new belt (if they haven't made the post themselves). Also, I think instructors with integrity should really look out not to be in the kind of photos mentioned above unless they themselves are the promoting instructor. Plus really shouldn't "sign off" for someone for IBJJF, pretending to be the promoting instructor if you weren't. Promoting instructor's lineage should be easily verifiable through reliable sources (not just their own words). Plus points for instructors who keep records online of all BB:s they've promoted. E.g. Royce Gracie https://www.roycegraciejj[...]elt-list-1 (have deleted non-affiliates, but others can be checked through Waybackmachine) Relson Gracie https://www.relsongracie.[...]lack-belts Carlson Gracie https://www.bjjheroes.com[...]ie-profile Matt Thornton https://www.straightblast[...]sociation/ SBG UK (with given names from promoting instructors) https://straightblastgymu[...]ack-belts/ Chris Haueter https://www.combatbase.co[...]ack-belts/ Ricardo Liborio https://ricardoliborio.com/lineage/ Rigan Machado http://www.riganbjj.com/r[...]belts.html and https://blackbeltlegacy.com/ Fabio Gurgel https://fabiogurgel.com.b[...]io-gurgel/ Registration at Gracie Barra, IBJJF, SJJIF (including podium pics) etc. are really not good and complete evidence, as they are not transparent of who was actually the promoting instructor. Both IBJJF and SJJIF are also shady by in some cases having made major exceptions to criteria which they keep on claiming they never make exceptions to. They've also been duped by certificate applicants and then refuse to answer any questions about those persons. E.g. SJJIF with a on Beltchecker well known fake Carlson Gracie BB. Diplomas or signed IBJJF application forms are not strong evidence by themselves (there has been instances on Beltchecker with falsified certificates as well as details on purpose being made unreadable to hide the actual dates, names of instructors etc), although stronger in combination with several photos showing an ongoing relation with the claimed promoting instructor. An invite to check the promotion through a verifiable public social media account or e-mail adress of your instructor is also good (they should of course then be ready to and gladly respond, if someone asks for a verification). A confirmation of the promotion on Beltchecker, if your promoting instructor is also a member here, is actually very strong evidence (as long as they have good evidence and lineage of their own). I see far to many who don't tag their promoting instructor in the promotion history even though their instructor is also on Beltchecker. I also see a lot of instructors never actually confirming their students degrees on here and haven't helped produce any other piece of evidence. Common! If someone has put in the work and dedication to broaden the base of the next generation in a lineage bearing your name, I think it's negligent, not to say disrespectful, not to take the minutes necessary to help them get their degree confirmed! It's 2024 - we're all very busy, no matter how many degrees you have on your BB. Respect your students back! If you just don't give a f*** about getting good evidence and lineage together but really don't want to take being down voted by anyone, just remove e.g. your blue belt (or make sure never to get your identity verified) and it will render your profile unvoteable while you can still use forums and other benefits of Beltchecker. Some other forum links: Post on my take on if BJJ needs lineage to be BJJ: https://www.beltchecker.c[...]ge=3#69586 National registries of black belts: Sweden (no longer updated): https://grapplingbloggen.[...]e_id=18599 Finland: https://bjjliitto.fi/?lang=en (FBJJF Info > Highest belt grades) (Edited 1 year(s) ago) |
"two people locally to me have been promoted to blue belt by a purple belt. Is this allowed?" Yes, but normally that will have been okayed by a black belt. I promoted lots of people to blue as a purple belt, however I asked my instructor first and he was there. At brown belt, I did it without him being there, as he'd given me the ok to do it on my own. Now that I'm a black belt, I don't need to ask him (though I wouldn't promote people to black belt on my own yet). |
"Identifiable promoting instructor (with the right degree, not least two or more stripes, besides professor stripes, if promoting someone to BB) tying on the belt, holding it while you're wearing it, standing next to you and pointing your new belt it or posing next to you while you have the previous belt around your neck (lying on the ground next to you could also be ok, if nothing else is suspicious). I think instructors not issuing diplomas should even encourage their students to have that kind of picture taken with them, for future reference, if needed. They can also like or comment a social media post where you've written about them promoting you to the new belt (if they haven't made the post themselves). Also, I think instructors with integrity should really look out not to be in the kind of photos mentioned above unless they themselves are the promoting instructor. Plus really shouldn't 'sign off' for someone for IBJJF, pretending to be the promoting instructor if you weren't. Promoting instructor's lineage should be easily verifiable through reliable sources (not just their own words). Plus points for instructors who keep records online of all BB:s they've promoted. E.g. Royce Gracie https://www.roycegraciejj[...]elt-list-1 Carlson Gracie https://www.bjjheroes.com[...]ie-profile Matt Thornton https://www.straightblast[...]sociation/ SBG UK (with given names from promoting instructors) https://straightblastgymu[...]ack-belts/ Registration at Gracie Barra, IBJJF, SJJIF (including podium pics) etc. are really not good and complete evidence, as they are not transparent of who was actually the promoting instructor. Both IBJJF and SJJIF are also shady by in some cases having made major exceptions to criteria which they keep on claiming they never make exceptions to. They've also been duped by certificate applicants and then refuse to answer any questions about those persons. E.g. SJJIF with a on Beltchecker well known fake Carlson Gracie BB. Diplomas or signed IBJJF application forms are not strong evidence by themselves (there has been instances on Beltchecker with falsified certificates as well as details on purpose being made unreadable to hide the actual dates, names of instructors etc), although stronger in combination with several photos showing an ongoing relation with the claimed promoting instructor. An invite to check the promotion through a verifiable public social media account or e-mail adress of your instructor is also good (they should of course then be ready to and gladly respond, if someone asks for a verification). A confirmation of the promotion on Beltchecker, if your promoting instructor is also a member here, is actually very strong evidence (as long as they have good evidence and lineage of their own). I see far to many who don't tag their promoting instructor in the promotion history even though their instructor is also on Beltchecker. I also see a lot of instructors never actually confirming their students degrees on here and haven't helped produce any other piece of evidence. Common! If someone has put in the work and dedication to broaden the base of the next generation in a lineage bearing your name, I think it's negligent, not to say disrespectful, not to take the minutes necessary to help them get their degree confirmed! It's 2024 - we're all very busy, no matter how many degrees you have on your BB. Respect your students back!" That is a clear criteria. Thank yo |
"Identifiable promoting instructor (with the right degree, not least two or more stripes, besides professor stripes, if promoting someone to BB) tying on the belt, holding it while you're wearing it, standing next to you and pointing your new belt it or posing next to you while you have the previous belt around your neck (lying on the ground next to you could also be ok, if nothing else is suspicious). I think instructors not issuing diplomas should even encourage their students to have that kind of picture taken with them, for future reference, if needed. They can also like or comment a social media post where you've written about them promoting you to the new belt (if they haven't made the post themselves). Also, I think instructors with integrity should really look out not to be in the kind of photos mentioned above unless they themselves are the promoting instructor. Plus really shouldn't 'sign off' for someone for IBJJF, pretending to be the promoting instructor if you weren't. Promoting instructor's lineage should be easily verifiable through reliable sources (not just their own words). Plus points for instructors who keep records online of all BB:s they've promoted. E.g. Royce Gracie https://www.roycegraciejj[...]elt-list-1 Carlson Gracie https://www.bjjheroes.com[...]ie-profile Matt Thornton https://www.straightblast[...]sociation/ SBG UK (with given names from promoting instructors) https://straightblastgymu[...]ack-belts/ Registration at Gracie Barra, IBJJF, SJJIF (including podium pics) etc. are really not good and complete evidence, as they are not transparent of who was actually the promoting instructor. Both IBJJF and SJJIF are also shady by in some cases having made major exceptions to criteria which they keep on claiming they never make exceptions to. They've also been duped by certificate applicants and then refuse to answer any questions about those persons. E.g. SJJIF with a on Beltchecker well known fake Carlson Gracie BB. Diplomas or signed IBJJF application forms are not strong evidence by themselves (there has been instances on Beltchecker with falsified certificates as well as details on purpose being made unreadable to hide the actual dates, names of instructors etc), although stronger in combination with several photos showing an ongoing relation with the claimed promoting instructor. An invite to check the promotion through a verifiable public social media account or e-mail adress of your instructor is also good (they should of course then be ready to and gladly respond, if someone asks for a verification). A confirmation of the promotion on Beltchecker, if your promoting instructor is also a member here, is actually very strong evidence (as long as they have good evidence and lineage of their own). I see far to many who don't tag their promoting instructor in the promotion history even though their instructor is also on Beltchecker. I also see a lot of instructors never actually confirming their students degrees on here and haven't helped produce any other piece of evidence. Common! If someone has put in the work and dedication to broaden the base of the next generation in a lineage bearing your name, I think it's negligent, not to say disrespectful, not to take the minutes necessary to help them get their degree confirmed! It's 2024 - we're all very busy, no matter how many degrees you have on your BB. Respect your students back!" And this is why the judo grading system works. Attend a grading, get technically assessed by a senior examiner. Win your batsugun line up (trial by combat) fights or accumulate 100 points. Get your license book signed and then the association validates, awards you your black. |
Coming up through the ranks, I was told you can promote up to the belt below you, except black. You'd need to be a black belt for 2yrs before you were allowed to promote someone else to black belt. As previously mentioned on this thread, that's from another time. With so many black belts out there today, I don't think it's so hard to find one to assist in promoting someone. BJJ has no real rules or regulations, so it's hard to tell someone they can't do something except self promote to black belt. |
"And this is why the judo grading system works. Attend a grading, get technically assessed by a senior examiner. Win your batsugun line up (trial by combat) fights or accumulate 100 points. Get your license book signed and then the association validates, awards you your black." Where it succeeds in standardisation and accountability, it fails miserably in quality control |
"Coming up through the ranks, I was told you can promote up to the belt below you, except black. You'd need to be a black belt for 2yrs before you were allowed to promote someone else to black belt. As previously mentioned on this thread, that's from another time. With so many black belts out there today, I don't think it's so hard to find one to assist in promoting someone. BJJ has no real rules or regulations, so it's hard to tell someone they can't do something except self promote to black belt." Yep, I'd agree. I don't think 6 years (the current broadly accepted standard, mostly due to the IBJJF pretending to be an arbiter as usual) is an unreasonable length of time to wait until you can promote black belts after becoming one yourself. There was a long thread about it on here a while ago, I'll see if I can dig it out. However, I also wouldn't care if somebody did it at, say, 2 or 3 years. My personal minimum standard for others would probably be 2 years at black belt before promoting, but meh. I will probably wait 6 years until I do it, seeing as I only have 2 brown belts under me at the mo anyway and neither of them is in a rush. |
"How so? If you don’t pass your technical or win your fights, you don’t get the grade." There's just very little correlation between judo belt rank and skill. You have unlimited opportunities to win those matches and it's just easier for a less skilled judoka to fluke an ippon than it is to submit someone overall better than you. Judo also seems to attract more belt hunters so often brown belts have the worst judo you'll see because there's nothing stopping you grading to brown, other than a few time served periods. Doing techniques against unresisting opponents proves absolutely nothing. So winning matches against brown belts isn't necessarily very difficult for those reasons and your win percentage might be <20% but you still collect the 100 points with enough matches. In BJJ, nobody would be suggesting you're ready for promotion if you're losing the vast majority of your matches to people of the same weight, belt and age. Having done BJJ in 8 different countries, the correlation between rank and skill is remarkably consistent. |
"In BJJ, nobody would be suggesting you're ready for promotion if you're losing the vast majority of your matches to people of the same weight, belt and age. " I agree with everything you said...and I somewhat agree with this...but BJJ tournaments are full of sandbaggers that sit at a belt long after they're due just to collect medals. How many times have you seen a podium promotion? Most of those are BS. Nothing happened during that tournament for that person to earn that belt. If they were a purple belt on the podium they were also a purple belt yesterday, last week, and likely last month. In the unlikely event that their time in grade just happened to be up on that day, the promotion can wait until the next class. There's no need to insult their competitors with a podium promotion that says "congratulations on finishing 2nd in the purple belt division to a brown belt". |
"I agree with everything you said...and I somewhat agree with this...but BJJ tournaments are full of sandbaggers that sit at a belt long after they're due just to collect medals. How many times have you seen a podium promotion? Most of those are BS. Nothing happened during that tournament for that person to earn that belt. If they were a purple belt on the podium they were also a purple belt yesterday, last week, and likely last month. In the unlikely event that their time in grade just happened to be up on that day, the promotion can wait until the next class. There's no need to insult their competitors with a podium promotion that says 'congratulations on finishing 2nd in the purple belt division to a brown belt'." That's a fair point, but personally I'd be happy if I was competing and my opponent got promoted right after. I would think "cool, I held my own with a higher belt." Or at least "ah, ok, no wonder I lost so badly." |
"I agree with everything you said...and I somewhat agree with this...but BJJ tournaments are full of sandbaggers that sit at a belt long after they're due just to collect medals. How many times have you seen a podium promotion? Most of those are BS. Nothing happened during that tournament for that person to earn that belt. If they were a purple belt on the podium they were also a purple belt yesterday, last week, and likely last month. In the unlikely event that their time in grade just happened to be up on that day, the promotion can wait until the next class. There's no need to insult their competitors with a podium promotion that says 'congratulations on finishing 2nd in the purple belt division to a brown belt'." You're certainly alluding to things that are valid points. When i've seen sandbagging, it's usually because those people are preparing for the final boss of sandbagging: the IBJJF euros. F-ing 9 year blue blues and 5-year white belts on the podium. But that brings us full circle to the Judo vs BJJ comparison. In BJJ, your coach can interpret results and understand context. Maybe your win-loss is bad, but certain injuries have stopped you playing your A game. Maybe you're an unusual size / age combo and constantly have to give up a weight category or go down in age, to get matches. Judo, by not having that, both ensures a consistent criteria, but sacrifices all the nuance. It's just "go get 10 ippons". Could be spamming the same move repeatedly, could take 100 matches, could be against people who train once a week... Judo also has this weird idea of 'national styles' which dictate certain techniques you should do based off your... nationality. It's been funny watching a Russian move here and absolutely smash people who didn't understand how to deal with 'Russian Judo' because they were used to Japanese style Judo. |
"That's a fair point, but personally I'd be happy if I was competing and my opponent got promoted right after. I would think 'cool, I held my own with a higher belt.' Or at least 'ah, ok, no wonder I lost so badly.'" That's a reasonable perspective, but you were still denied being a champion by someone that didn't even belong there. And you may not have held your own. You may have gotten destroyed. I can see it as being a relief, but I still find it insulting. |
"You're certainly alluding to things that are valid points. When i've seen sandbagging, it's usually because those people are preparing for the final boss of sandbagging: the IBJJF euros. F-ing 9 year blue blues and 5-year white belts on the podium. But that brings us full circle to the Judo vs BJJ comparison. In BJJ, your coach can interpret results and understand context. Maybe your win-loss is bad, but certain injuries have stopped you playing your A game. Maybe you're an unusual size / age combo and constantly have to give up a weight category or go down in age, to get matches. Judo, by not having that, both ensures a consistent criteria, but sacrifices all the nuance. It's just 'go get 10 ippons'. Could be spamming the same move repeatedly, could take 100 matches, could be against people who train once a week... Judo also has this weird idea of 'national styles' which dictate certain techniques you should do based off your... nationality. It's been funny watching a Russian move here and absolutely smash people who didn't understand how to deal with 'Russian Judo' because they were used to Japanese style Judo." I’ve seen people have 90 points collected and then attend a grading. They only needed one fight to win but have ended up doing their line-up and winning all 5 fights. I have also known people to get to 90 points and turn up to a grading and say they have lost their record book because they wanted to win their line up. I’ve seen people attend grading and win 4 out of 5 of their matches (twice, accumulating 80 points) not get their belt but then turn up and win two fights and get their black belt. But the consistency amongst all the above scenarios is that they have HAD to go and compete. BJJ doesn’t have the same requirements to be promoted. In fact there are ZERO consistent requirements. I’m not sure how it can be argued about a lack of quality control. |
"I agree with everything you said...and I somewhat agree with this...but BJJ tournaments are full of sandbaggers that sit at a belt long after they're due just to collect medals. How many times have you seen a podium promotion? Most of those are BS. Nothing happened during that tournament for that person to earn that belt. If they were a purple belt on the podium they were also a purple belt yesterday, last week, and likely last month. In the unlikely event that their time in grade just happened to be up on that day, the promotion can wait until the next class. There's no need to insult their competitors with a podium promotion that says 'congratulations on finishing 2nd in the purple belt division to a brown belt'." You're certainly alluding to things that are valid points. When i've seen sandbagging, it's usually because those people are preparing for the final boss of sandbagging: the IBJJF euros. F-ing 9 year blue blues and 5-year white belts on the podium. But that brings us full circle to the Judo vs BJJ comparison. In BJJ, your coach can interpret results and understand context. Maybe your win-loss is bad, but certain injuries have stopped you playing your A game. Maybe you're an unusual size / age combo and constantly have to give up a weight category or go down in age, to get matches. Judo, by not having that, both ensures a consistent criteria, but sacrifices all the nuance. It's just "go get 10 ippons". Could be spamming the same move repeatedly, could take 100 matches, could be against people who train once a week... Judo also has this weird idea of 'national styles' which dictate certain techniques you should do based off your... nationality. It's been funny watching a Russian move here and absolutely smash people who didn't understand how to deal with 'Russian Judo' because they were used to Japanese style Judo. |
"I’ve seen people have 90 points collected and then attend a grading. They only needed one fight to win but have ended up doing their line-up and winning all 5 fights. I have also known people to get to 90 points and turn up to a grading and say they have lost their record book because they wanted to win their line up. I’ve seen people attend grading and win 4 out of 5 of their matches (twice, accumulating 80 points) not get their belt but then turn up and win two fights and get their black belt. But the consistency amongst all the above scenarios is that they have HAD to go and compete. BJJ doesn’t have the same requirements to be promoted. In fact there are ZERO consistent requirements. I’m not sure how it can be argued about a lack of quality control." My position is that "quality control" would be expressed by a stronger correlation between belt rank and mat skill. I'm asserting that judo has a very poor correlation and BJJ has a very good one. |
I saw today this on NABJJF: The following is the criteria for which instructors may promote students: A black belt may promote students from white belt to purple belt. A 1st degree black belt may promote students from white belt to brown belt. A 2nd degree black belt may promote students from white belt to black belt. |
"I saw today this on NABJJF: The following is the criteria for which instructors may promote students: A black belt may promote students from white belt to purple belt. A 1st degree black belt may promote students from white belt to brown belt. A 2nd degree black belt may promote students from white belt to black belt." That’s funny, I love how every competitive circuit tries to become an authority on belt promotion. Breaking news NABJJF, it’s too late, the chance to Establish any resemblance of a unified promotion standard died 20 years ago. |
"Belt promotion is a club or an association thing. Its not very relevant unless you compete. For instructors the knowledge of pedagogy should be more relevant than belt. (I know that it is not, but it does not help even you know a lot of grappling, if you cannot help others to learn.)" I don't think so. even here there are rules that guide people who approve the profile |
"That’s funny, I love how every competitive circuit tries to become an authority on belt promotion. Breaking news NABJJF, it’s too late, the chance to Establish any resemblance of a unified promotion standard died 20 years ago." At least, they don't water the standards down. So there is still a bit of a unified promotion standard in that organizations go north and not south of the IBJJF standards. |
"At least, they don't water the standards down. So there is still a bit of a unified promotion standard in that organizations go north and not south of the IBJJF standards." It’s just strange to me that an organization like that would dictate the promotion standards for everyone joining it. Especially knowing that every single Academy is different. The unfortunate part is organizations may create a “standard” But Academies don’t have a universal standard. It’s even more funny that there’s different standards across different organizations like this (Edited 2 year(s) ago) |
"At least, they don't water the standards down. So there is still a bit of a unified promotion standard in that organizations go north and not south of the IBJJF standards." It’s the very reason I love belt checker. There is absolutely no unified standard here. It’s a bunch of people from a bunch of different academies or non-academies that have been promoted differently and know different standards, They all come together to decide what’s legitimate or what’s not. It’s actually the closest thing to a standard that we can get in BJJ. At this point, we need a nonstandard, and this is it |
"“Allowed” is a bit of a loaded question. Allowed by who? IBJJF? BeltChecker? My personal opinion is that only black belts should promote. Maybe browns can give out stripes in a fundamentals class…but a beginner can’t be promoting other beginners. Purple belts make great assistant instructors for beginners classes and kids classes, but on their own they generally don’t have the breath of knowledge and experience required. Some of them will have a couple moves that are gnarly and black belt level, but often still have big holes in their game to patch up that they themselves might not be aware, and therefore may inadvertently be teaching other people to have those same holes in their game. Just my 2 cents." They could very well be teaching others the same holes in their game. But blue belt have holes in their game, so that doesn't seem like a reason to say they are not blue belts. It's interesting all the people saying its wrong are focused on the rules, the affiliation, the purple belt. Nobody has question if the blue belts are actually blue belt level. Which seems to me to be the only important factor. |
