Yeah: I assume you probably remember this, but there was lots of stuff about Maycee Barber, back when she was running Gracie Ft Collins as a Gracie University blue belt. E.g., this big thread: https://www.mixedmartiala[...]en:2495974

Rener Gracie: 'The Girls Are Not Misrepresenting Their Jiu-Jitsu Rank'

  Teen sisters Maycee and Emma Barber run the Fort Collins Gracie Jiu Jitsu in Colorado.The sisters are Jiu-Jitsu blue belts and Gracie University students. They are both Karate black belts too. Pictures on their academy’s Facebook page and website show them giving Jiu Jitsu lessons, as they are wearing BJJ black belts and Gracie Jiu …

Mine is suspicious as I refuse to tie it properly and am thinking of wearing socks

Yeah: I assume you probably remember this, but there was lots of stuff about Maycee Barber, back when she was running Gracie Ft Collins as a Gracie University blue belt. E.g., this big thread: https://www.mixedmartiala[...]en:2495974

Ah, that was it: Leo Dalla. Thanks, that helped me dig out some old threads. rec.martial-arts is awesome for finding discussion about old school BJJ drama. Here's one from 2003 on SImco: https://groups.google.com[...]MKuZ4Yf2sJ Here's a quote from another thread, again about Simco: https://groups.google.com[...]5V5pIYtDsJ 'About a week ago, I asked a question about the propriety of instructors wearing 'the wrong belt' when teaching. Among others, you came back with a definite nay: http://tinyurl.com/uvr1 Would it surprise you to learn that the guy I was asking about was Gene Simco, who prior to 1999 wore his Japanese Jujutsu black belt to teach Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, even though he had earned only a blue belt in Brazilian Jiu-jitsu at the time? Would it surprise you to learn that Gene Simco claimed to his present instructor, Michael 'Bolo' Jen (http://www.jenbjj.com/) that he had first earned his BJJ brown belt from Fernando 'Cabeça' Sarmento Jr (http://www.fernando-cabeca.com/) but that after some sexual harrassment scandal, the belt was rescinded - a claim that Cabeça adamantly denies? Instead Cabeça claims that Gene Simco wanted the brown belt to help his 'marketing' efforts and Cabeça refused to participate in the deception.'

Randy 'Lasu' Rogers -- 2020-2021 -- Seems to have self-promoted from white to 7th degree coral belt, with the exception of a degree or two on his (apparently fake) black belt maybe coming from Carlos Machado. Also claimed to be affiliated with Edmilson Alves and the Fadda lineage when he was not. Has blocked BeltChecker members on Facebook who asked questions about his promotions or protested this fuckery (including yours truly). See the epic BeltChecker thread: https://www.beltchecker.c[...]p;id=30770

Emma Barber (note: stopped wearing the fake black belt when called on it) Maycee Barber (note: stopped wearing the fake black belt when called on it)

Even if I do not agree with you, I *will* share your side of the story.

Another situation where the BJJ Internet mob acted completely inappropriately. This was the situation were two teen age girls were cyber bullied for being in some pictures wearing their Karate black belts while in Jiu-Jitsu gi's at their own school. And knuckle heads on the P.O.S. martial arts forums were talking about 'dojo storming' the dojo of two 17 year old teen age girls. Meanwhile: https://www.bjjee.com/bjj[...]itsu-rank/ These are two more names, that as per the OP should not have been on the forum list of 'fake belts'. Unless perhaps, if the thread title was changed to, 'Internet Cyberbullying Incidents by crazy BJJ Jihad wannabees, towards teen age girls'.

Walls of text - you might want to condense it a bit if you want to start a wider discussion (also much easier to read without new row after each comma or finished sentence). I remember the Fort Collins drama and also remember that I was surprised of how civilized the discussions were. Even the 'dojo storming' that took place (by invitation!) was most civilized from what I can tell; 'I let them know I was a doubter who had followed the story on Facebook but had an open mind and saw their posts welcoming visitors to judge in person at a Masters Cycle class so I was here from Phoenix to do just that.' If you don't want people to come over to judge in person, don't invite people to come over to judge in person! Also, it's not cyber bullying to rightfully criticize what a BJJ academy (even if run by 17 year olds) have uploaded themselves. It could have gone very differently if they and Rener had right away just admitted that it was a mistake and didn't look good and just stopped doing it right away. The BJJ belt wasn't their karate style belt or anything (their instructor, the sex offender, didn't ever wear that kind of black belt). 'It takes a village...', but that doesn't make it bullying that the criticism increases when 17 year olds continue doing (and defend doing) something stupid that grown ups in the community have already tried to make them realize that it's a very bad idea.

Well, I saw the opposite. Grown men acting like morons, about two 17 years olds who were Karate black belts, wearing their Karate black belts during a kids class, in their own school. Also, your post is no less wall of text, than mine. Although, I can be long winded. Occupational hazard, professionally. As to the white spaces, and commas, it's a sometimes annoying style of mine. In part because I don't often wear my glasses, when I should. And in part, because I used text to speech software, and it is easier that way. And, any significant intimidating banter about teen agers, and children on line, IS cyber bulling. Leave the kids alone, you can always address it after they are adults, online.

They did NOT wear a karate belt of any style besides perhaps one created by themselves for the sole purpose of getting to wear BJJ black belts. But let's not forget the responsibility of their parents and Rener in all this. If they had given the girls mature advice to just own up to their mistake and go on with life, we wouldn't even be discussing this so many years later. Instead, they did the girls a big disservice by encouraging them to stand their ground on the issue. See e.g. the discussions here (you need to press a lot of + signs to see it all) https://www.reddit.com/r/[...]lack_belt/ 'Especially if you head a BJJ/GJJ academy, don't wear a BJJ BB unless you earned it! And no, it is not an acceptable loophole to dream up your own martial art and claim the belt is in Fort Collins Kenpo. Their refusal to let go of the red bar is why they are still subject to so much criticism.' 'Oh yes, they did dream it up. Their lineage is Robert Austin > Seth Sykes > Them. Robert Austin disowned Sykes years ago. Later, so did the girls. So they are in effect their own regulators and can change their styles belt system at the snap of a finger if they want to. The belt system is only from last year, they are the only black belt holders in it and they no longer have the microscopic plausible deniability that some may argue they had when the belt system was decided (and they were already a Gracie Academy affiliate).'

Again, two 17 year old kids, wearing their kids Karate black belts, while teaching a kids class, in their own school is nobody's business but their own. The adults who acted like it was a BJJ Rank Jihad matter, online, were being ridiculous, and creepy. The two children's Gracie University blue belt status were documented, and public record. The one point where we might quasi-agree, is that as a parent, I do not post things about my children online, where their names are visible, or were they can be seen in pictures. Nor do I let my kids have Facebook etc accounts, because social media is a cess pool. However, sometimes their school will post such things for their school team activities. But, the adults making an online fuss about the two 17 year olds were out of line, and creepy, for targeting two 17 year old girls in such a fashion, because of their own petty insecurities and online entertainment, as adults who should have known better. Had the online adults targeted other adults, it still would have been petty, and silly, but far less creepy.

Did you actually read what I just wrote about the belts NOT being karate belts? Or how they MADE it other people's business by showing themselves in the belts in the social media marketing of the BJJ/martial arts academy they run? Sure, the age of majority in Colorado is 21, but 17 year olds can still have a drivers license and have reached the age of consent according to state law. In Sweden, where I live, the age of majority is only months away when you're 17 and already at 17, you can be sentenced to prison. So we're not talking toddlers here. And once they stopped wearing the BJJ black belts (which they wouldn't if it wasn't for all the criticism), the online discussions quite quickly died out (although they still pop up every once in a while).And in BJJ, you really have to know it! If you're being choked or arm locked, you make sure you tap! If you pass out or get hurt, you really only have yourself to blame if you put yourself in that situation and wasn't willing to own up to it (tap). That goes for 17 year olds too. If you can't take that, BJJ isn't for you.

They DID invite anyone to come over and judge in person at a masters cycle class. That isn't an automatic invite to sparring, which you can always refuse anyone. But the person who visited didn't even got to watch the masters cycle class. Can you give me some examples of comments (with source links) which were pure bullying or harassment? Btw (OT), Greta Thunberg was very capable of handling hecklers even before she was 17 :-) https://www.reuters.com/a[...]KBN27M0TF/ https://news.sky.com/stor[...]a-12776854 Once again though, those were NOT karate belts and they knew it!

I don't have to, as the base case is: Adults should not ridicule children on line, because of their own insecurities, and pettiness, and People can wear whatever in house dojo belts they want in their own school. While I did observe that series of events as they unfolded, I am not going to waste any of my time, going back to forums and reading posts that were populated by in the best case, pure silliness, and in the worst cases, ugliness, towards two teen age girls. Beltchecker has done a much better job, in their forums, than many of those old BJJ Jihad forums, and in many cases modern BJJ Jihad forums. And, after helping Beltcheckers get enough momentum for lift off, I made a point to step back my time from even these forums. Because it competes with me being on a peddle kayak, or walking my dog, or doing non-idle things that matter. However, I do think it is unfortunate, when Internet mobs target people, especially children for online harassment. Maybe leave people, alone, and mind one's own business.

What a bunch of scum, cyber bullying two 17 year old, teen age girls. Real 'tough guys', weren't they, every one of those adults posting. Their behavior certainly aged terribly, But, how did they not know, they were behaving like absolute garbage, during. People are strange, in their capacity for evil, and ignorance. Especially when because of a mob, or a cult authority figure in a uniform that they can say gave them orders, They behave so terribly, and evilly.

If 'People can wear whatever in house dojo belts they want in their own school' and no one should argue against it, there isn't much use of Beltchecker or a fake belt thread, is it? :-) We remember the Fort Collins discussions very differently and not very meaningful to discuss if you don't want to give any examples. Even if you could find one or two forum users who actually did pass the line, how can you so surely state 'Adults should not ridicule children on line' when you don't know if those posters were 17 or younger themselves?

I can't believe we have adults doing crap like that and that there are people who justify.. The thing I find most amusing is some of the people justifying this behavior then want to talk about the code of conduct and behavior in the arts but harassing teenagers is ok

If you run a BJJ academy and market it adding photos or videos on social media where you instruct BJJ in a BJJ black belt, that's a whole other issue than if someone choose to role play BJJ black belt among peers in a closed door environment. Have we even established that there was any cyber bullying? William has written 'What a bunch of scum, cyber bullying two 17 year old, teen age girls. Real 'tough guys', weren't they, every one of those adults posting', but without wanting to give a single actual example of when it went over the line. Neither can I believe we have adults doing crap like that either in the BJJ community, but haven't seen it here which means I haven't seen anyone trying to justify it either. So really, what are we discussing here? Are we cyber bullying some undefined entity who is accused of undefined but horrendous net crimes which are left unseen? No perpetrator and no substantiated deeds, just a resonance chamber of stating that 'doing bad things is bad, mmmkay'? Who can argue against that?

Keep digging that hole deeper..... Like I said, there is a major difference between providing a service that allows opt in documenting of one's training history, and then public discussion and voting on it, than a bunch of online adult trolls making it their business to worry about what goes on inside a kids class or basics class ran by two 17 year old girls. The very idea that people would spend energy there, is ridiculous at best, and worrisome, when not the best. Leave the kids, alone. I do understand that they are adults now, but they weren't then.

If you're marketing a BJJ academy you're running to the world, you have opted in to being called on your bluffs by the wider BJJ community, like it or not. Perhaps not very wise to put your 17yo children (or students) in that position, but the parents did. The way it played out, Rener finally requested and they agreed to remove the red BJJ bars from their self made style karate belts. And to my knowledge, no BJJ academy owner since then (9 year ago) has ever reprised the really bad idea to create their own karate belt system with BJJ style belts as an excuse to wear one in academy and on social media before they've actually earned the BJJ BB. Which I think is a good thing. Just as it's good that the Gracie Academy backed down on some online promotion bullsh*t after receiving a lot of criticism online for that too around the same time. The Fort Collins academy shut down (and they no longer instruct BJJ?) as one of the sisters focused on a career in MMA and UFC and the whole family relocated. So hopefully everyone involved is well (except for the sex offender instructor, who I hope is still rotting in prison). https://www.reddit.com/r/[...]ge_karate/ https://www.facebook.com/[...]1080344076

They are adults now, so your comments are about people that are now adults. Then, they were kids. And as it turns out, they competed as adults. So, all the adult Internet troll angst about those kids, and their belts, was a big nothing burger. I clearly do not mind Internet trolling, but not of kids, and not of vulnerable adult parties to the point where it was or is predatory. And whenever adults troll kids online, that begins to cross in the line of being predatory. Unless the kids have committed an actual crime, like physically attacking someone, or destruction of property, or something to where there is an actual harm to society. Wearing a Kids Karate black belt while teaching a kids class or basics class is not a harm to society. So, my comment to the Internet BJJ Troll community remains: Leave kids alone.

You're writing a lot about trolling, cyber bullying and harassment having taken place all those nine years ago. Probably, we would all agree if you could just give an actual example. But as far as the 'list' of this thread concerns, I think the circumstances have been made very clear: They did not explicitly say they were BJJ black belts but chose BJJ black belts with red bars as the black belts of a karate style they themselves founded at a time when they were already Gracie Academy affiliated. Belts which no other style in the world before or since have used as their black belts, outside of BJJ. And they wore these belts when instructing grappling techniques and shared this on social media for anyone to see. So the case is still relevant to this thread and I don't think anyone has claimed that they have full on claimed in words or in writing to be BJJ BB:s as others featured in this thread.

I don't think you understand the points, so I will list them again: They were kids, and making a big deal over what belts kid instructors wear, when teaching kids classes or basics classes, is silly. But, trolling kids in online environments is not a little deal, that is inappropriate.

A couple of months shy of 18 or not, anyone who by themselves is allowed to drive a full speed, full weight car which could kill you in traffic is also old enough to be criticized by strangers, online or not. That is not automatically trolling, cyber bullying or harassing. We'll just have to agree to disagree there. Also on how big a deal it is with posting contents on social media, advertising your BJJ academy, where you wear a BJJ BB you didn't deserve, we obviously wont agree there either. But really, why bring that up now 9 years later? For the sake of this thread, can we just agree that both their age and the circumstances of the case make it less of an issue than the adult full out BJJ BB fakers mentioned in the thread?