I can understand this perception from listening to some of his podcasts, but suspect that some of it comes from his frustration at getting asked the same questions from people who have not done their own research and then try to quote ideas that are not based on any scientific evidence. When you listen to Greg interacting with people who have he comes across very different.

My perception of him has changed a bit

Mine hasn't, but if you ever come across a podcast etc by him that presents himI am not surprised in the slightest that Alex likes him, I can see exactly how he'd be the kind of super detailed, intense instructor that might appeal. Not my vibe though, I don't like intense instructors who overcomplicate their language

Sorry to be disagreeable but it's a misrepresentation to say he's a details guy, he's actually the opposite. He's trying only to coach invariants. It would be irresponsible not to coach invariants but he actively tries not to coach details that aren't invariant. He's like Chris Paines in that respect. The language he uses is the correct academic language. Whilst I'm not generally a fan of academic language, we are in a stage where many people are arguing against him based on emotion and logical fallacies. So it's kind of important that he can reference back into those bodies of work. Unlike Danaher who uses f-ing Japanese because... reasons.

Ha: he sounds nothing like Chris, as Chris is a very good communicator. Almost as importantly, Chris is not dogmatic. Though yeah, I assume you mean Souder has similarities to Chris' teaching approach, rather than personality? ;) Also, I should again emphasise I haven't read or listened to anything Souder has done, so I'm making a lot of assumptions based on second hand accounts (e.g., what Daniel Bertina said, which carries weight with me as I have a lot of respect for Daniel). I'm totally ready to have my mind changed, but I also don't want to slog through somebody being a pretentious, hardline arsehole. Is there a good interview/article/podcast etc where Souder comes across well? Not that Souder needs to do anything to make me like him, of course. I'm some random black belt with a small school, I somehow doubt he gives a shit what I think of him. :D

If you watch this class, ask yourself how much Chris 'taught' in that class: https://youtu.be/kY6rKWV0[...]6GyVTzdYEP Nothing but invariants. That is the similarity.

That's a brilliant class.

I live by the simple rule 'everybody is wrong, including myself'. Taken from the subtle art of not giving a f... With that in mind Im interested in this type of training and experiment with it. I like the idea of learning through games. And yeah from what ive heard of Mr Souders he doesnt come across as very likable guy.

I have just spent a couple of days training with Greg in the UK. Here are my honest observations. Yes he is a bit odd and comes across poorly at times when he gets worked up, but he is aware of this and he is passionate about this stuff, and making BJJ coaching professional.

But what I'm taking from the ecological approach is to create conditions in which the explicit instruction is no longer needed

Some instructors say that using ecological approach, you do not give instruction or show moves. I don’t buy in to that. When having a group with no prior understanding and not even seeing any rolling before it’s a long learning curve.

Instructions need of course to be given, as in: explanation of the game, the goals, the constraints. But a good coach would give very much attention to the language and the instructions he gives, because the players in the room should understand directions and goals without being shown what it would look like. It is in fact one of my current researches and experimentation: running as much of the class as I can, without showing anything, just explaining. Let the players figuring it out. And if one is not capable of doing something like this, it is not because of the level of the players in the room, but because of own limits while coaching with cla. If some of those reading this thread was in Florence, they could talk about the classes that both Ingamells and I, gave without actually showing what the players were supposed to do, only explaining it in words. Creating basic understanding of direction and positional hierarchy in people with no experience whatsoever, it's actually pretty easy, without showing anything.

It's a pretentious way of saying you teach something through a series of cooperative and/or oppositional games. With a limited amount of detailed instruction. Let them play & try to beat each other in a bunch of constrained games and see what emerges from that.

It's a pretentious way of saying you teach something through a series of cooperative and/or oppositional games. With a limited amount of detailed instruction. Let them play & try to beat each other in a bunch of constrained games and see what emerges from that."

The ecological method of coaching is just one tool in your toolbox. It shouldn’t be the only way you approach things - different people learn in different ways. We think it’s pretty cool in our gym. But we have a good balance.

It's a theory of learning, it's not one tool. It's the theory all of practice is based on. It cannot co-exist with doing dead drilling as a regular, long term part of practice. Some people who are primarily ecological still do some dead drilling with either new students or unfamiliar situations. But there are clubs all over the place banging out their 963rd armbar dead drill or uchikomi in Judo, and those people implicitly reject the ecological theory of learning.

Never mentioned dead drilling. We don’t do that. Yes, it’s a theoretical approach to teaching / learning but of course it can swapped out at any time. You’re not committed haha.

Dead drilling is what someone would do if they rejected the ecological theory, so those are like your 2 extremes. I don't really understand how or why you'd ever swap it out. Other than if you decided to reject it after trying it.

I think my point is that it doesn’t need to be rammed down your throat. It’s a useful tool for drilling and pressure testing grappling but we also need room for technique breakdown, situational sparring etc. You can’t just eco the life out of everyone.