Ok so you think that if we were at Pans or the Euros and went to talk to the people who just medalled in the well attended divisions (Light, middle, middle heavy) and said 'hey how long have you been training and how many times a week do you train'? Then we multiplied those numbers. You think that - the white belts would give a number close to 468 - the blue belts would give a number close to 936 Is that a fair representation of what you said?

Ok so you think that if we were at Pans or the Euros and went to talk to the people who just medalled in the well attended divisions (Light, middle, middle heavy) and said 'hey how long have you been training and how many times a week do you train'? Then we multiplied those numbers. You think that - the white belts would give a number close to 468 - the blue belts would give a number close to 936 Is that a fair representation of what you said?

I talk about normal people whontrain for fun. If we talk about competitors, they do BJJ 5-6 Times on week, 2-3 Times strong on Gym and other things ...yoga, stretching, sauna, pool ...

So now we're back to my original point. The 'biggest competitions in the world' aren't won by exceptionally good white and coloured belts, they are won by people that have been training ~3x longer than the average person of that rank. So you criticise a McDojo for promoting too soon, but actually BJJ suffers more from certain gyms not promoting enough

It actually seems to happen here surprisingly often.

Could you link any example of that happening here? (someone's promotion history later being contested because they were promoted to blue by a purple belt)

Could you link any example of that happening here? (someone's promotion history later being contested because they were promoted to blue by a purple belt)

Years ago, IBJJF had a rules about Brown belt who might promote to purple and purplr who might promote to blue, because of the lack of Black belt in some area...i imagine this rule isn't allowed anymore ?

The irony being that these 'biggest competitions in the world' are just sandbagging championships where people grade 4x slower than the rest of jiu jitsu practitioners

IBJJF is not a law, but it sets certain trends and rules in BJJ. You might as well give yourself a black belt.

Can you provide an example of that? Obviously elite level competitors are on a different scale and are far better than the typical level for promotion. But the idea that they train 4 times slower seems kind of baseless. The top guys tend to be held back at a given level due to ibjjf minimums. If they stay longer, its usually to make a run at worlds, and that again goes back to the idea of operation on a different scale.

Isn't that what the Gracies (founders/owners/promoters of IBJJF) did? IBJJF rules are trivial and have no bearing at all on the skill attained at a certain belt. According to IBJJF rules all you have to do is be a member of a gym and train for 4.5 years and you can be a black belt. There is no performance criteria at all.

I believe what he is saying is that they take 4 times longer based on training time, not on calendar time. He has explained this previously.

I didn't question the existence of sandbagging (although I disagree with your definition). I questioned the claim of 4 x times longer. He may have meant mat hours, but that's not what he said.

It is what I said and what I meant. Calendar time means nothing without context. That's why we have 15 year white belts on this site, who are still white belt skill level. It's also bizarre to assume I'm saying the blue belt Pans and Euro winners have been training ~20 years!!

If a purple belt wants to run a club and promote somone, it must be associated with someone who has higher belts, preferably a black belt. 2nd degree. Then there is the possibility of development of the instructor and players. I don't see any other sensible solution

If a purple belt wants to run a club and promote somone, it must be associated with someone who has higher belts, preferably a black belt. 2nd degree. Then there is the possibility of development of the instructor and players. I don't see any other sensible solution

If you go to the gym for 4.5 years and you win the Black Belt IBJJF World Championship, good luck.

Not what I said or suggested at all. What I said is that using the IBJJF timeline you can be a black belt in 4.5 years whether you're any good at it or not. IBJJF has no requirements at all about skill level vs belt promotions. None. All they require is that you spend 2 years at blue belt, 1.5 years at purple, 1 at brown, and you're eligible for your black belt. That's 4.5 years.

There you go with the IBJJF nonsense again. There is no 'must' in BJJ except in IBJJF.

2 years as white belt 2 as blue belt 1,5 as purple 1 as Brown But its minimum time. 4,5 years if you win gold medal in Worlds in all categories, but its you can, not you must.

It is what I said and what I meant. Calendar time means nothing without context. That's why we have 15 year white belts on this site, who are still white belt skill level. It's also bizarre to assume I'm saying the blue belt Pans and Euro winners have been training ~20 years!!