Answer from Christopher on my wall (truncated message) and I asked him to continue here in this thread. "Hey Johan. My first time on here in a long while. I saw you were requesting clarification, and I'd be glad to try. My Professor, John Boltin, competed at the 2010 Pan Ams as a Brown Belt and was then promoted directly by Carlos Gracie Jr. on behalf of Eduardo De Lima. I have no documentation of that. What I DO have is picture of promotion ceremony of John receiving his 1st stripe from Eduardo in 2013. I've not found the photo of his 2nd Stripe in 2016, but I do have the promotion photo of Johns" John Boltin being promoted by anyone to BB in 2010 is contradicted by the 2011 Pan Ams results (https://ibjjf.com/events/[...]ampionship), which still shows him as a brown belt. But he supposedly didn't get his BB from his teacher Joshua Miller and not from his teachers teacher Eduardo DeLima but from Carlos Gracie Sr? Or are your students wrong in listing Joshua Miller at all in between DeLima and John Boltin? If the promotion in 2010 or 2011 was "on behalf of Eduardo De Lima", why was John Boltin not on De Lima's academy's list of De Lima's black belts? (see https://www.facebook.com/[...]735992485/) Would be very odd, to say the least, if Carlinho had promoted John on DeLima's behalf without ever consulting with or informing DeLima. Extraordinary claims of course call for evidence (preferably also extraordinary). Would also be extraordinarily odd to let him compete again as a brown belt in 2011 but still give him first degree BB in 2013.

Lineage not consistent with your promoting instructor's instructor's profile, where it's claimed John Boltin is a 2010 De Lima BB. Basically the only trace online of a John Boltin in BJJ shows a Gracie Barra 2011 brown belt competitor in the Pan Ams, which would also invalidate claims of him being a 2010 BB. Also, your promoting instructor's instructor has, five months after being asked, still not even added a picture showing his promoting instructor to his profile nor any other evidence, so you really need to help him out with his profile before anyone below him in the lineage can be confidently verified. If John Boltin was promoted to BB by De Lima in 2010, he would also be featured on the following list (which he is not): https://www.facebook.com/[...]735992485/ The alternative lineage of Christopher Popdan can't be correct either: Lineage: Maeda --> Carlos Gracie Sr. --> Eduardo DeLima --> Joshua Miller --> John Boltin --> Christopher Popdan According to Joshua Miller, he got BB from De Lima in 2008 (see https://www.terraguerrajj.com/). So couldn't had promoted the elusive John Boltin to BB any earlier than 2014 (consistent with Boltin being a brown belt in 2011, ie still after 2010). Who then couldn't had promoted Christopher Popdan to BB at the claimed 2017 date but would have had to wait until at least 2020, where we had the pandemic, so not very likely. Still, that wouldn't had made it possible to promote Sean McSwain to BB any earlier than 2026, even if Christopher had gotten promoted to BB during the Covid shut down.

Christopher, I've really been trying to find evidence to support your claims of your lineages, but the more I look, the more I find that simply contradicts the information that you come up with. I have found very clear evidence that DeLima was in fact present at the 2011 PanAms, where John competed as a brown belt (and placed on shared 3:rd place, unclear how many were in the bracket). Kevin Strickland, who placed on 2:nd place in the same division, didn't get his BB from DeLima until more than a year later (I checked on his FB page). Why would anyone podium promote a student placing third but not the student placing second in the very same division? To be honest, it sounds made up that Carlos Gracie Jr (who I've not even found any indications that he was present) would have promoted John to black belt on Behalf of DeLima at the PanAms. Even if DeLima got a sudden impulse that it was time for John (but not Kevin) to get his BB, did he need to go to the bathroom or some other place more important but it was still so urgent to promote that he first asked Carlinhos to take care of the promotion for him before he would be back? Somewhere along these lines of reasoning, we should perhaps give Occam's razor a thought (paraphrased as ""of two competing theories, the simpler explanation of an entity is to be preferred""). Christopher, if you're being honest with yourself and us, what explanation sounds more likely? https://www.facebook.com/[...]9086266702 https://www.facebook.com/[...]8736266737 https://www.facebook.com/[...]8516266759 Edit: Great, William! I have already asked for info in DeLima's academy's thread about DeLima black belts. Please ask for date (at least year or approximate) of the BB as well.

Christopher, I've really been trying to find evidence to support your claims of your lineages, but the more I look, the more I find that simply contradicts the information that you come up with. I have found very clear evidence that DeLima was in fact present at the 2011 PanAms, where John competed as a brown belt (and placed on shared 3:rd place, unclear how many were in the bracket). Kevin Strickland, who placed on 2:nd place in the same division, didn't get his BB from DeLima until more than a year later (I checked on his FB page). Why would anyone podium promote a student placing third but not the student placing second in the very same division? To be honest, it sounds made up that Carlos Gracie Jr (who I've not even found any indications that he was present) would have promoted John to black belt on Behalf of DeLima at the PanAms. Even if DeLima got a sudden impulse that it was time for John (but not Kevin) to get his BB, did he need to go to the bathroom or some other place more important but it was still so urgent to promote that he first asked Carlinhos to take care of the promotion for him before he would be back? Somewhere along these lines of reasoning, we should perhaps give Occam's razor a thought (paraphrased as ""of two competing theories, the simpler explanation of an entity is to be preferred""). Christopher, if you're being honest with yourself and us, what explanation sounds more likely? https://www.facebook.com/[...]9086266702 https://www.facebook.com/[...]8736266737 https://www.facebook.com/[...]8516266759 Edit: Great, William! I have already asked for info in DeLima's academy's thread about DeLima black belts. Please ask for date (at least year or approximate) of the BB as well.

Lineage not consistent with your promoting instructor's instructor's profile, where it's claimed John Boltin is a 2010 De Lima BB. Basically the only trace online of a John Boltin in BJJ shows a Gracie Barra 2011 brown belt competitor in the Pan Ams, which would also invalidate claims of him being a 2010 BB. Also, your promoting instructor's instructor has, five months after being asked, still not even added a picture showing his promoting instructor to his profile nor any other evidence, so you really need to help him out with his profile before anyone below him in the lineage can be confidently verified. If John Boltin was promoted to BB by De Lima in 2010, he would also be featured on the following list (which he is not): https://www.facebook.com/[...]735992485/ The alternative lineage of Christopher Popdan can't be correct either: Lineage: Maeda --> Carlos Gracie Sr. --> Eduardo DeLima --> Joshua Miller --> John Boltin --> Christopher Popdan According to Joshua Miller, he got BB from De Lima in 2008 (see https://www.terraguerrajj.com/). So couldn't had promoted the elusive John Boltin to BB any earlier than 2014 (consistent with Boltin being a brown belt in 2011, ie still after 2010). Who then couldn't had promoted Christopher Popdan to BB at the claimed 2017 date but would have had to wait until at least 2020, where we had the pandemic, so not very likely. Still, that wouldn't had made it possible to promote Sean McSwain to BB any earlier than 2026, even if Christopher had gotten promoted to BB during the Covid shut down.

John at Holy City Jujitsu

Coverage of morning instruction and sparing. beginner BJJ instruction lead by Kyle. assisted by Tom and Jon

Christopher, I've really been trying to find evidence to support your claims of your lineages, but the more I look, the more I find that simply contradicts the information that you come up with. I have found very clear evidence that DeLima was in fact present at the 2011 PanAms, where John competed as a brown belt (and placed on shared 3:rd place, unclear how many were in the bracket). Kevin Strickland, who placed on 2:nd place in the same division, didn't get his BB from DeLima until more than a year later (I checked on his FB page). Why would anyone podium promote a student placing third but not the student placing second in the very same division? To be honest, it sounds made up that Carlos Gracie Jr (who I've not even found any indications that he was present) would have promoted John to black belt on Behalf of DeLima at the PanAms. Even if DeLima got a sudden impulse that it was time for John (but not Kevin) to get his BB, did he need to go to the bathroom or some other place more important but it was still so urgent to promote that he first asked Carlinhos to take care of the promotion for him before he would be back? Somewhere along these lines of reasoning, we should perhaps give Occam's razor a thought (paraphrased as ""of two competing theories, the simpler explanation of an entity is to be preferred""). Christopher, if you're being honest with yourself and us, what explanation sounds more likely? https://www.facebook.com/[...]9086266702 https://www.facebook.com/[...]8736266737 https://www.facebook.com/[...]8516266759 Edit: Great, William! I have already asked for info in DeLima's academy's thread about DeLima black belts. Please ask for date (at least year or approximate) of the BB as well.

Does that include that DeLima has never heard of John Boltin? Would have helped as a memory refresher that John Bolton (almost same name) was in the news all the time in the years around the halfway point from then to now. I don't think that it's ever been claimed that McSwain or Popdan ever met DeLima. Christopher Popdan claims the attached pic shows Boltin getting his 1:st degree from DeLima in 2013 (just two years after competing in Pans as a brown belt). But could just as well be a mere together-with-pic from somewhere DeLima just visited. Can ask him as well if he ever has placed the first stripe on BB on the top of the bar rather than the bottom (which is what I've seen on his students on social media). Could otherwise rule out the claim of first stripe from DeLima. The original BB is of course the most important - some visiting senior BB:s just seem to trust claimed time since BB and award stripes on BB without doing any due diligence on the BB itself. Giving Popdan the benefit of the doubt and assuming he mixed up 2013 and the first stripe to a later year and also mixed up Boltin getting BB at the Pans in 2010 and not in 2011, where he competed as a brown belt, that would require the promotion to BB from DeLima to have been a podium promotion (or at least during the ongoing Pans) for there to be time for Boltin to have a 2:nd degree at the promotion of Popdan, also at a 27:th of march (as was the last day of the Pans of 2011). I'm quite sure DeLima would know if he at all is someone who did podium promotions at that point in time and, if so, if he would had promoted someone who placed on shared third place to black belt right away at the podium but would have waited more than a year before BB promoting his student Kevin Strickland, who placed 2:nd in that exact same division and podium. Strickland was DeLima's 19:th BB, if the list on his academy's FB page is correct. So it's not like he had hundreds of promoted BB:s to keep track of. You could also ask him if it sounds realistic that he would had asked Carlos Gracie Jr to do the promotion of John on his behalf (=in his name) even though DeLima himself was present at the 2011 Pans. This is also a claim from Popdan, even if he says 2010 (when DeLima would have had even fewer BB:s to keep track of). There are so many specifics here which sound so incredibly odd that they would really be remembered by DeLima if true (which I guess he can confirm). Here is a link to another picture of John Boltin: https://www.facebook.com/[...]8778907750 I haven't personally looked into the skill level of Popdan or McSwain as I know there are probably hundreds of persons out there who skill wise would be "deserving of a BB" but really should not be claiming they have a legitimate one unless they formally do, lineage and all. A previous case comes to mind with a certain James Nakamura, who claimed to be a Carlson Gracie BB (he was not) and also promoted a Beltchecker member to BB (who might very well have had the skills of a BB for all that I know) before going off radar and still have not resurfaced in the BJJ community. Not a fun position for that Beltchecker member but a reminder that at least when your BB approaches, you really should look into if your instructor is legit. John Boltin has held a very low profile online since the 2010-2011 Pans (not much can be found outside of Popdan's academy's social media). This article (https://www.postandcourie[...]0e54f.html) from Aug 1:st of 2012 mentions an academy named John Boltin’s Brazilian Jiu Jitsu on York Street in Aiken which opened more than a year earlier (so not long after the 2011 Pans). But didn't seem to last for long and less than three years later, an academy named South Aiken Jiu-Jitsu (now just Aiken Jiu-Jitsu?) opened and seem to have connections to DeLima but not to Boltin.

Thank you Will for your research. To clarify Holy City Jiu Jitsu is not officially affiliated with Chango nor Hanahan Jiu Jitsu. I mainly train at Holy City and cross train with Sean at his gym in Hanahan two times a week. For me, the way Sean breaks down technique is better than many black belts I've come across in my travels.

I'm not sure about all that, but the billing is through the city of Hanahan's rec department. We use the city's multi purpose room to train on Thursday and Friday mornings and evenings.

I think we have bothered Professor De Lima, enough for the moment, on Easter. :) In all cases, I doubt he will remember the exact year that he promoted someone 15 years ago. But, this John Boltin Facebook profile seems to support a promotion to Black Belt for this John Boltin, in April of 2011, by the congratulatory comments, which do coincide with comments on both his black belt promotion, and his competition activity in that time space: https://www.facebook.com/[...]n.boltin.7 Are those the same John Boltin's with two separate Facebook accounts? Or two different John Boltin's? Or is that the same FB account, because it did not seem so to me.... Kevin Strictland appears to have been promoted to black belt by Eduardo de Lima, April of 2012, by this facebook feed: https://www.facebook.com/[...]6045102340 I know some of the people being promoted in that black belt promotion ceremony picture, quite well, .and I have pinged two of them to ask if they remember if John Boltin was promoted before, at the same time, or after, them.

Can you link directly to where you saw congratulatory comments? Did not find them anywhere on the profile. I have written to Gracie Barra HQ in Irvine (and to Joshua) and asked if Carlos Jr acted as senior promoting instructor, promoting John Boltin to BB in 2011 (3-4 years before John's teacher Josh could had promoted him). Considering Carlos Jr and IBJJF kicked out Globetrotters from IBJJF, for senior Globetrotters black belts signing off on "students who do not train under their guidance", chances are that they might not want to admit to that being a gringo rule, not applying to Brazilians (and especially not to Gracie Barra and Carlos Jr). If that is the case and no evidence was ever produced, it would unfortunately be indistinguishable from it never having happened. I would in that case recommend moving belt claims forward in time, to match a timeline where John Boltin was promoted to BB in 2014. Good to know for other members as well to make sure to do your due diligence on your promoting instructor and also realize that very senior BB:s co-promoting but not producing any kind of evidence and forgetting who they "promoted" five minutes later isn't even worth the paper it's not printed on.

https://www.facebook.com/[...]Cv43iadEr/ https://www.facebook.com/[...]DyCQsJe9R/ This one, with the Carlos Gracie Jr. comment: https://www.facebook.com/[...]HgBPLkmbk/

Sure:

Where is the Carlos Jr comment and what does it say? (any likes from him as well?) Seems like you have a mutual FB-friend, so might explain why you can see the post.

Maybe so, regarding the mutual friends. The "Carlos Gracie Jr" comment I was referring to was the one from Eric Brown, with the dated name drop. Carlos Gracie Jr. was Eduardo de Lima's instructor. So, that is one of the reasons I am not going to bother Eduardo further on this matter, as I am sure that he would rather be working with his dogs, making his knives, fishing, and otherwise living his dream life (I am envious!), than to try and remember ancient history. It was generous of him to answer me, and I did not like to bother him, asking him if he authorized the promotion of Mr. McSwain or Mr. McSwain's instructor, which he still generously took the time to answer on Easter. If Carlos Gracie Jr. did spot promote one of Eduardo's student's, I am not going to bring that back up, and if Carlos Gracie Jr. did not, then Professor Eduardo does not need to worry about it, anyway. Many of the people hear have shared their interfamily affiliation dilemmas, but they share those stories at their own election, and I have no desire to grapple hook anybody about such matters, unless they bring it up, themselves.

I think we have bothered Professor De Lima, enough for the moment, on Easter. :) In all cases, I doubt he will remember the exact year that he promoted someone 15 years ago. But, this John Boltin Facebook profile seems to support a promotion to Black Belt for this John Boltin, in April of 2011, by the congratulatory comments, which do coincide with comments on both his black belt promotion, and his competition activity in that time space: https://www.facebook.com/[...]n.boltin.7 Are those the same John Boltin's with two separate Facebook accounts? Or two different John Boltin's? Or is that the same FB account, because it did not seem so to me.... Kevin Strictland appears to have been promoted to black belt by Eduardo de Lima, April of 2012, by this facebook feed: https://www.facebook.com/[...]6045102340 I know some of the people being promoted in that black belt promotion ceremony picture, quite well, .and I have pinged two of them to ask if they remember if John Boltin was promoted before, at the same time, or after, them.