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IBJJF black belt degree certification fees?
6 year(s) ago • 34722 views • 217 replies
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Were these guidelines invented by you alone, or did they come from some kind of committee or something?
They just follow the IBJJF guidelines for black belt degree promotions based on time
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
What kind of feedback have you received on this idea? Are people comfortable with it?
No feedback or comments on it, really.
As far as I see it, the community decides by voting. If the community disagrees with time based black belt degree promotions a la IBJJF, then they can downvote it and decide it is illegitimate :)
As far as I see it, the community decides by voting. If the community disagrees with time based black belt degree promotions a la IBJJF, then they can downvote it and decide it is illegitimate :)
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I mean, it seems that you’ve created a lane for time-based promotions that doesn’t follow the IBJJF regs. Your beltchecker requirements seem to permit black belts to grant themselves degree promotions that they might not otherwise be eligible to receive from the IBJJF or an affiliation. Is that accurate?
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Jesse, just curious, whom do you think tied the red belts around the waist of Helio Gracie and Carlos Gracie Sr?
:)
:)
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I mean, it seems that you’ve created a lane for time-based promotions that doesn’t follow the IBJJF regs. Your beltchecker requirements seem to permit black belts to grant themselves degree promotions that they might not otherwise be eligible to receive from the IBJJF or an affiliation. Is that accurate?
No the requirements of time served are the exact same as if you apply for the degrees with IBJJF. The only difference is that IBJJF doesn’t require any approval from a black belt instructor for the degree, where as here you need approximately 10 of them to vouch for your legitimacy.
(Ok IBJJF also requires payment and a mandatory CPR and referee course)
(Ok IBJJF also requires payment and a mandatory CPR and referee course)
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Don’t forget the criminal background check to weed out convicted rapists, pedophiles, etc. from being IBJJF certified coaches.
I like that IBJJF and USJA (judo) coach certification requirement.
I like that IBJJF and USJA (judo) coach certification requirement.
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
William,
Your point is not lost on me. I just wonder what the community’s opinion is on this being practiced now. I imagine some, especially those who toe the IBJJF line, will balk at the idea that non-IBJJF black belts can grant themselves the same time-based promotion treatment that the IBJJF permits. Granted, I recognize that those credentials mean more to some than others.
Your point is not lost on me. I just wonder what the community’s opinion is on this being practiced now. I imagine some, especially those who toe the IBJJF line, will balk at the idea that non-IBJJF black belts can grant themselves the same time-based promotion treatment that the IBJJF permits. Granted, I recognize that those credentials mean more to some than others.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Don’t forget the criminal background check to weed out convicted rapists, pedophiles, etc. from being IBJJF certified coaches.
This is only for US members. Rest of the world doesn’t have this requirement.
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Christian,
Yes, you’re following the same time standard, I see that. What I’m saying is that you’re essentially allowing black belts to promote themselves additional degrees provided that they get community votes. I’m not necessarily criticizing that approach, but it’s a radical departure from the current conventions for certification and promotion. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, but I do wonder what people think of it. Not to be impolite, but are you basing your own posted rank on this protocol? If so, I think stating as much adds great value to this conversation as you would serve as an example of an extremely gifted and trusted black belt who has divorced himself from the monopoly that is the IBJJF promotion guidelines.
Yes, you’re following the same time standard, I see that. What I’m saying is that you’re essentially allowing black belts to promote themselves additional degrees provided that they get community votes. I’m not necessarily criticizing that approach, but it’s a radical departure from the current conventions for certification and promotion. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, but I do wonder what people think of it. Not to be impolite, but are you basing your own posted rank on this protocol? If so, I think stating as much adds great value to this conversation as you would serve as an example of an extremely gifted and trusted black belt who has divorced himself from the monopoly that is the IBJJF promotion guidelines.
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
What I’m saying is that you’re essentially allowing black belts to promote themselves additional degrees provided that they get community votes. I’m not necessarily criticizing that approach, but it’s a radical departure from the current conventions for certification and promotion. I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, but I do wonder what people think of it.
That is correct. But remember, there was a time before IBJJF. They made up these rules and positioned themselves as a "belt certifiers" relatively recently. Countless black belt degrees has been - and are still - given without the consent of IBJJF, nor by following their guidelines.
And please note, that IBJJF is not a governing body. They are a private company that organize tournaments. Their certification is in no way "official" and it is also not useful for anything other than putting a piece of paper on your wall. You don't need IBJJF certification for anything. Not for competing in their tournaments, not for signing off other black belts. Nothing. It's just a piece of paper that proves you paid them money and that maybe one black belt (could be none) is confirming that you have counted the years since black belt promotion correctly.
And please note, that IBJJF is not a governing body. They are a private company that organize tournaments. Their certification is in no way "official" and it is also not useful for anything other than putting a piece of paper on your wall. You don't need IBJJF certification for anything. Not for competing in their tournaments, not for signing off other black belts. Nothing. It's just a piece of paper that proves you paid them money and that maybe one black belt (could be none) is confirming that you have counted the years since black belt promotion correctly.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Not to be impolite, but are you basing your own posted rank on this protocol? If so, I think stating as much adds great value to this conversation as you would serve as an example of an extremely gifted and trusted black belt who has divorced himself from the monopoly that is the IBJJF promotion guidelines.
Yes as you can see on my profile here, my black belt 2nd degree is "by time served". If the community disagree to this, they can dispute me in an instant and I will accept that. I don't wear ranks on my black belt anyway - the red bar has fallen off and I don't plan on fixing it or putting any tape there.
If I wanted to, I could get a piece of paper from IBJJF that says I'm a 2nd degree black belt. I qualify for it since I've been a paying member since purple belt, all I would need to do it fill out a little form, pay $400, do a CPR course and fly somewhere to do an IBJJF referee course. That's it.
Alternatively, I could also ask one of my senior friends in Jiu Jitsu to give a thumbs up to put a piece of tape on my belt, that would only take one email and a few minutes. Both would be considered "legitimate" by the community without question.
So am I a 2nd degree black belt or not? I couldn't care less, but the debate is healthy.
If I wanted to, I could get a piece of paper from IBJJF that says I'm a 2nd degree black belt. I qualify for it since I've been a paying member since purple belt, all I would need to do it fill out a little form, pay $400, do a CPR course and fly somewhere to do an IBJJF referee course. That's it.
Alternatively, I could also ask one of my senior friends in Jiu Jitsu to give a thumbs up to put a piece of tape on my belt, that would only take one email and a few minutes. Both would be considered "legitimate" by the community without question.
So am I a 2nd degree black belt or not? I couldn't care less, but the debate is healthy.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
What I’m saying is that you’re essentially allowing black belts to promote themselves additional degrees
Exactly like I could do with IBJJF today, if I wanted to. I can promote myself online through them by sending them money. It just seems a bit silly though :D
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
you would serve as an example of an extremely gifted and trusted black belt who has divorced himself from the monopoly that is the IBJJF promotion guidelines
Now, I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure you can't divorce someone you've never been married to :D
(not to mention that this site actually follows the IBJJF guidelines even though there are many other standards out there for black belt degrees. SBG for instance have always given degrees every two years as far as I know, and I think they still do?)
(not to mention that this site actually follows the IBJJF guidelines even though there are many other standards out there for black belt degrees. SBG for instance have always given degrees every two years as far as I know, and I think they still do?)
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Christian,
Responding to your last edit...
But see, you did something very few people actually do—you alone decided that you were entitled to the promotion. Obviously, as one of the seeded members on the site you didn’t go through the same verification process that everyone else does on here, but had you done so, would the community have needed to specifically approve your second degree? Would they realize that they were responsible for acknowledging your self appointed rank? Does the verification system alert the community to new degree promotions for black belts, so that voters can decide to support or condemn the circumstances surrounding the proclaimed change in rank? I think you’re such a known and trusted commodity that people don’t give your legitimacy a second thought, but shouldn’t the system alert users that a new degree has been self appointed and requires community approval?
Responding to your last edit...
But see, you did something very few people actually do—you alone decided that you were entitled to the promotion. Obviously, as one of the seeded members on the site you didn’t go through the same verification process that everyone else does on here, but had you done so, would the community have needed to specifically approve your second degree? Would they realize that they were responsible for acknowledging your self appointed rank? Does the verification system alert the community to new degree promotions for black belts, so that voters can decide to support or condemn the circumstances surrounding the proclaimed change in rank? I think you’re such a known and trusted commodity that people don’t give your legitimacy a second thought, but shouldn’t the system alert users that a new degree has been self appointed and requires community approval?
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Also, I imagine that you may have granted yourself second degree status retroactively. You know, once you decided that this project was going to have black belt certification guidelines. Does that mean others should feel free to do the same? Should a black belt who is now five years removed from his initial black belt promotion have the freedom to look at beltchecker’s guidelines and say to himself “I met my time served requirements two years ago. I’m going to retroactively credit myself a degree for that, and I’m only one year away from another degree”?
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
But see, you did something very few people actually do—you alone decided that you were entitled to the promotion. Obviously, as one of the seeded members on the site you didn’t go through the same verification process that everyone else does on here, but had you done so, would the community have needed to specifically approve your second degree? Would they realize that they were responsible for acknowledging your self appointed rank? Does the verification system alert the community to new degree promotions for black belts, so that voters can decide to support or condemn the circumstances surrounding the proclaimed change in rank? I think you’re such a known and trusted commodity that people don’t give your legitimacy a second thought, but shouldn’t the system alert users that a new degree has been self appointed and requires community approval?
No my profile has been the same since the first vote and I am as much disputable here as anyone else. Anyone can look at my profile and decide if they want to dispute it or not. Or withdraw their verification at any time.
Would my rank be more valid to you if I send $500 to a tournament organizer (IBJJF) and show you a piece of paper from them? I qualify and could do it today if I wanted to. It would require zero approval from anyone, only a payment (and a little, expensive trip to the US for referee course). I can do that in less than 3 minutes but honestly it would be a bit silly.
Or would it be more valid to you if I ask a friend to come here and post that ok I’m now a second degree black belt under him because I have counted the years correct? I can have someone do that in less than 3 minutes but honestly it would be a bit silly.
I appreciate your thoughts and debate and I think it’s a really healthy one. Online promotion for money based on zero skills proven is usually pretty frowned upon, so it’s kind of interesting that this is an exact business model of IBJJF who pretend to be a governing body.
Would my rank be more valid to you if I send $500 to a tournament organizer (IBJJF) and show you a piece of paper from them? I qualify and could do it today if I wanted to. It would require zero approval from anyone, only a payment (and a little, expensive trip to the US for referee course). I can do that in less than 3 minutes but honestly it would be a bit silly.
Or would it be more valid to you if I ask a friend to come here and post that ok I’m now a second degree black belt under him because I have counted the years correct? I can have someone do that in less than 3 minutes but honestly it would be a bit silly.
I appreciate your thoughts and debate and I think it’s a really healthy one. Online promotion for money based on zero skills proven is usually pretty frowned upon, so it’s kind of interesting that this is an exact business model of IBJJF who pretend to be a governing body.
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Also, I imagine that you may have granted yourself second degree status retroactively. You know, once you decided that this project was going to have black belt certification guidelines.
My profile was filled out before any single person had registered here so nothing was done retroactively or non-transparent. So your insinuation about me sneakily trying to grab a degree without anyone noticing, doesn’t hold up sorry :)
If anyone disapprove of my rank on this page, they are free to dispute it. It would only take a few black belts for me to lose my verification and I would have to change it to 1st degree or whatever the people want. Go ahead, I can take it haha :D
For reference I’m attaching a photo of my belt :D
If anyone disapprove of my rank on this page, they are free to dispute it. It would only take a few black belts for me to lose my verification and I would have to change it to 1st degree or whatever the people want. Go ahead, I can take it haha :D
For reference I’m attaching a photo of my belt :D

Edited 6 year(s) ago
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Should a black belt who is now five years removed from his initial black belt promotion have the freedom to look at beltchecker’s guidelines and say to himself “I met my time served requirements two years ago. I’m going to retroactively credit myself a degree for that, and I’m only one year away from another degree”?
Any black belt who is enough years from his initial promotion can look at the IBJJF guidelines and decide to send them some money and get promoted online. Pretty certificate and everything included! :)
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Black belt degrees are based on NOTHING but time served. And in some cases money. That too lol :D
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I’m pretty sure that the IBJJF doesn’t credit you time in rank or degrees for years you haven’t been in good standing with them.
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Also, I imagine that you may have granted yourself second degree status retroactively. You know, once you decided that this project was going to have black belt certification guidelines.
Ah right, now I understand what you mean with this, I got it wrong the first time. Yes sure, if we agree that degrees are just a symbol of how many years you've been a black belt (IBJJF definition) then yes we can say that "retroactively" I became a second degree black belt last year. If anyone disagree, feel free to dispute my profile any time, I'd be thrilled to see the community self-control what guidelines are accepted!! :)
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I’m pretty sure that the IBJJF doesn’t credit you time in rank or degrees for years you haven’t been in good standing with them.
If by "good standing" you mean "paying", then that is correct.
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
And I don’t think you sneakily did anything. I think you gave yourself a degree status that is in accordance with your position on time served. What I mean is, most people don’t come to the epiphany that they are permitted to do that outside of the IBJJF. You credited yourself a degree based on guidelines that you created, which are identical to the IBJJF guidelines in terms of the time in rank requirements.
Black beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I want "I support Christian's rank" patches or something.
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
You credited yourself a degree based on guidelines that you created, which are identical to the IBJJF guidelines in terms of the time in rank requirements.
34 black belts did, so far. And they have the power to reverse it, which I am completely open to and would embrace. Isn't this is a very, very interesting experiment? :)
I honestly couldn't care less about black belt degrees (https://beltchecker.com/f[...]amp;id=302). I will never wear them on my belt. For me, a black belt is a black belt. Anything else is just dick measuring and illusion of hierarchy. But I think it's interesting to shake things up a bit. For some strange reason, we all agreed that a for-profit tournament organizer in California is the one and only God entity that can certify the count of number of years since your promotion is correct and then sell you a piece of paper to approve it.
I honestly couldn't care less about black belt degrees (https://beltchecker.com/f[...]amp;id=302). I will never wear them on my belt. For me, a black belt is a black belt. Anything else is just dick measuring and illusion of hierarchy. But I think it's interesting to shake things up a bit. For some strange reason, we all agreed that a for-profit tournament organizer in California is the one and only God entity that can certify the count of number of years since your promotion is correct and then sell you a piece of paper to approve it.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I want "I support Christian's rank" patches or something.
Maybe you'll be able to buy beltchecker.com approved patches like that real soon! :D
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Believe me, Christian, I’m very sympathetic to your position. My own instructor is not in the IBJJF fold either, nor is he affiliated with a senior black belt. Guidelines like the ones you are promoting and personally utilizing offer an opportunity for someone like him to be credited with a rank that reflects his five and a half years of black belt experience and leadership as a lead instructor. I’m just trying to understand where the community stands on this idea before I consider bringing it to his attention.
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I’m just trying to understand where the community stands on this idea before I consider bringing it to his attention.
Yes, it will be exciting to see how it reacts. I think this is a healthy debate and I agree and acknowledge that this somewhat controversial. But really, is it more controversial than a for-profit company from California at some point suddenly popping up in the sport and proclaiming that they hold the right to certify black belts and degrees? (+profit from it)
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Black belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
As far as disruption goes, we could go further.
Expert take downs or not.
Expert positional grappler or not.
Expert submissions or not.
Active competitor or not.
I'll say it again: all belt ranks are silly.
Expert take downs or not.
Expert positional grappler or not.
Expert submissions or not.
Active competitor or not.
I'll say it again: all belt ranks are silly.
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Yes, it will be exciting to see how it reacts. I think this is a healthy debate and I agree and acknowledge that this somewhat controversial. But really, is it more controversial than a for-profit company from California at some point suddenly popping up in the sport and proclaiming that they hold the right to certify black belts and degrees? (+profit from it)
Yes, a reaction is what I'd like to see, whatever its nature may be.
I realize that black belts of all stripes need the same 1,000 pts for verification, but might it be wise for a self chosen beltchecker time served promotion to spit out some sort of alert to the community (or segment thereof) for a profile review? It seems that the current verification system doesn't promote any sort of scrutiny of this practice. Perhaps the community should be made privy to these kinds of degree promotions so they can chime in accordingly. As the system stands now, I doubt that anyone is looking for this sort of thing. Wouldn't you agree that very few people probably know the circumstances surrounding your rank identification? Shouldn't they? Maybe not. I really don't know.
I think it's definitely possible for beltchecker to have a respectable, community-driven black belt degree program, but maybe something more is required to give it some polish. Just a thought.
I realize that black belts of all stripes need the same 1,000 pts for verification, but might it be wise for a self chosen beltchecker time served promotion to spit out some sort of alert to the community (or segment thereof) for a profile review? It seems that the current verification system doesn't promote any sort of scrutiny of this practice. Perhaps the community should be made privy to these kinds of degree promotions so they can chime in accordingly. As the system stands now, I doubt that anyone is looking for this sort of thing. Wouldn't you agree that very few people probably know the circumstances surrounding your rank identification? Shouldn't they? Maybe not. I really don't know.
I think it's definitely possible for beltchecker to have a respectable, community-driven black belt degree program, but maybe something more is required to give it some polish. Just a thought.


