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How is this an alternative to IBJJF?
6 year(s) ago • 209461 views • 216 replies
GSBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I understand the frustration. But the good thing is that there is a standard set to time. As an adult training educator and curriculum designer with experience constructing criterion and no native testing and assessments this is a good thing. The difference between the majority of IBJJF competitors and those from other competition and assessment organizations is significant. I can tell ya as a professional businessman in this martial art it makes a difference in the competition for clients who really want the best for the money they spend ….
And I can and do have quality instruction that I put at a high price. Prepping for and teaching others to win at these prestigious events goes a long way to setting a price. I have a lot of athletic crossovers to BJJ who wanna train with champions who know how to help them become them too. It would be nice to have a competing organization with the IBJJF to set performance standards for promotion to maybe ease the prices but the idea of being assessed and passing it makes me feel good….
And I can and do have quality instruction that I put at a high price. Prepping for and teaching others to win at these prestigious events goes a long way to setting a price. I have a lot of athletic crossovers to BJJ who wanna train with champions who know how to help them become them too. It would be nice to have a competing organization with the IBJJF to set performance standards for promotion to maybe ease the prices but the idea of being assessed and passing it makes me feel good….
BZBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I remember the good old time when you just add to register on IBJJF events without any requirement, at the end, the first round was there just to made the balance. But everyone can had a chance to shine. Now if you don't pay or if your coach isn't affiliated you can not show your abilities....that's pretty sad for me, but that's life and business. Money run everything
ALBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I only verify people I know from the Drag community. I was initially confused by the name of the site as to it’s purpose.
Well played William. A psycho with enough motivation can fake his way into anything. They won't own the runway (or the mat) and the tribe will know.
JTBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I logged into this site about 3 years ago and I really was not sure about it. So, I left it alone. I saw a thing on Face Book about it and checked it out again. I was surprised how much the site had grown and the amount of checks and balances the site has. Some of the people that verified me do not know me personally and viewed my other social medias and contacted me there. Then verified me. Then my long time training partners and friends were up here as well. I think over all the community is doing what they are supposed to be doing. I have verified people I do not know as well, by checking them out. After doing bjj for so many years, I would think I see a fraud on line. As far as IBJJF goes... well I am not a fan anymore. I was one of those guys, like many of us here, paying my money every year and taking my ref class and every other class I had to take to stay "legit" then I realized this is not worth it. I have not competed in an IBJJF tournament in years! There are lots of other tournaments out there. Maybe with money saved I'll check out a Globe Trotter camp. Over all I think Belt Checker is working.
ARBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Every time I see this thread again my blood just starts boiling and I don't really know why... RELAX! IT'S FUCKING JIU JITSU...
There. I'm done now.
There. I'm done now.
MGPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I don’t know Anthony, but there seems to be enough evidence to justify his outrage.
SPBlack belt 4th degreePending
3 year(s) ago
I believe it’s pretty easy to authenticate the legitimate belt rankings / promotions here with just a little bit of effort, common sense, and maybe some research on the voters part.
On the other hand, I’m not sure exactly where I stand on verifying black belt degrees based solely on “time in grade” without actual knowledge of their continued professional development / training.
On the other hand, I’m not sure exactly where I stand on verifying black belt degrees based solely on “time in grade” without actual knowledge of their continued professional development / training.
MGPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
On the other hand, I’m not sure exactly where I stand on verifying black belt degrees based solely on “time in grade” without actual knowledge of their continued professional development / training.
To be fair, proven activity at black belt per IBJJF can be as simple as an active membership.
MPBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I believe it’s pretty easy to authenticate the legitimate belt rankings / promotions here with just a little bit of effort, common sense, and maybe some research on the voters part. On the other hand, I’m not sure exactly where I stand on verifying black belt degrees based solely on “time in grade” without actual knowledge of their continued professional development / training.
I like the time in grade recognition but do see your point with regard if they haven’t trained/taught during that period.
Your vote would still be based on a little background research though to ascertain they were still active before giving the vote.
No training, no vote.
Your vote would still be based on a little background research though to ascertain they were still active before giving the vote.
No training, no vote.
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
The time issue, even not regarding activity, is a bit tricky in verifications. Even with good photo evidence of a promotion, how do we know when it took place, so we know how long time has passed since a belt was awarded?
Christian, could there perhaps be a public log (for those who wish to click to open it) of promotion history edits and the verification points (and negative points) at each of those instances? So there are time stamps and that those are not lost when editing the promotion history?
Christian, could there perhaps be a public log (for those who wish to click to open it) of promotion history edits and the verification points (and negative points) at each of those instances? So there are time stamps and that those are not lost when editing the promotion history?
ALBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
To be fair, proven activity at black belt per IBJJF can be as simple as an active membership.
Active membership just means you paid your dues while sitting on the couch... Should have proof of training & competing, teaching activity, or both...
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Active membership just means you paid your dues while sitting on the couch... Should have proof of training & competing, teaching activity, or both...
It has been difficult enough here on Beltchecker for many BB:s to provide evidence for a single event promotion. Proof of training and teaching regularly would be even more difficult. Even more so outside of Beltchecker.
I'm actually quite ok with degrees on BB not being much more than proof you have survived X number of years after getting your BB and either given by an instructor or claimed through Beltchecker. You make yourself more of a target with more stripes, so you'd just feel silly putting on stripes if you suck (although a BB shouldnt suck in the first place).
I'm actually quite ok with degrees on BB not being much more than proof you have survived X number of years after getting your BB and either given by an instructor or claimed through Beltchecker. You make yourself more of a target with more stripes, so you'd just feel silly putting on stripes if you suck (although a BB shouldnt suck in the first place).
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
IBJJF BLACK BELT CERTIFICATE REQUIRED :
We're all very aware. But you left out the part most important to the IBJJF, namely money, money and more money.
Membership fee 40$/year
IBJJF Rules Seminar 80$
Processing fee for BB 400$
Renewed fees for each stripe 150$/stripe
For me, who got my BB in 2014 when they didn't have webinars for the rules seminar (and didn't accept the rules seminars I've done in Sweden, one even under Alvaro Mansor, rules director of the IBJJF), it would be until 2025 before they even started counting my time as a BB, if I understand them correctly.
So I'd have to wait something like 20 years from when I got my BB (from one of the founders of Alliance, who have won the world championship more times than any other team) before being able to sign off for BB:s who have not previously been registered. Plus having to pay something like 80$+11*40$+400$+3*150$. That is a total of 1070$ even before the cranking up of prices which I'm sure will be done. And the standards? Having my promoting instructor sign off once and then just keep on paying, paying and paying some more, without anyone really checking in on the development of my skills and added experience.
Marian, you have to face the fact that IBJJF is a lucrative business of Carlos Gracie Jr and affiliates and not a neutral governing body of BJJ.
They're not even more trustworthy than a Beltchecker verified grade. The community here has found several instances where the IBJJF don't live up to their own claimed standards. There are for instance cases when the stated promoting instructor has never even met the person promoted to black belt. The BJJ Globetrotters got kicked out of IBJJF for less, but unlike on Beltchecker, the IBJJF never revokes any records once registered. Unless you stop paying that is, because then they might then remove you from their black belt searcher even though they claimed they'll keep you there forever.
Also, the IBJJF system of checking registered BB:s online has no way for you to confirm you've found the same person and not just someone with the same name. Neither is there any information on promoting instructor displayed. Would the claimed promoting instructor even know themselves if someone forged their signature on an application? IBJJF also refuse to give you any additional information to help verify someones belt claim or lineage even if you contact them directly - you only get the name, grade and academy at the time of registering the grade. Not even the promotion date.
The Beltchecker records in contrast are totally transparent and constantly open to peer review and criticism from the BJJ community, where many of us expect much better evidence than IBJJF requires.
Membership fee 40$/year
IBJJF Rules Seminar 80$
Processing fee for BB 400$
Renewed fees for each stripe 150$/stripe
For me, who got my BB in 2014 when they didn't have webinars for the rules seminar (and didn't accept the rules seminars I've done in Sweden, one even under Alvaro Mansor, rules director of the IBJJF), it would be until 2025 before they even started counting my time as a BB, if I understand them correctly.
So I'd have to wait something like 20 years from when I got my BB (from one of the founders of Alliance, who have won the world championship more times than any other team) before being able to sign off for BB:s who have not previously been registered. Plus having to pay something like 80$+11*40$+400$+3*150$. That is a total of 1070$ even before the cranking up of prices which I'm sure will be done. And the standards? Having my promoting instructor sign off once and then just keep on paying, paying and paying some more, without anyone really checking in on the development of my skills and added experience.
Marian, you have to face the fact that IBJJF is a lucrative business of Carlos Gracie Jr and affiliates and not a neutral governing body of BJJ.
They're not even more trustworthy than a Beltchecker verified grade. The community here has found several instances where the IBJJF don't live up to their own claimed standards. There are for instance cases when the stated promoting instructor has never even met the person promoted to black belt. The BJJ Globetrotters got kicked out of IBJJF for less, but unlike on Beltchecker, the IBJJF never revokes any records once registered. Unless you stop paying that is, because then they might then remove you from their black belt searcher even though they claimed they'll keep you there forever.
Also, the IBJJF system of checking registered BB:s online has no way for you to confirm you've found the same person and not just someone with the same name. Neither is there any information on promoting instructor displayed. Would the claimed promoting instructor even know themselves if someone forged their signature on an application? IBJJF also refuse to give you any additional information to help verify someones belt claim or lineage even if you contact them directly - you only get the name, grade and academy at the time of registering the grade. Not even the promotion date.
The Beltchecker records in contrast are totally transparent and constantly open to peer review and criticism from the BJJ community, where many of us expect much better evidence than IBJJF requires.
Edited 3 year(s) ago
CCBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Heres a different perspective. I received my black belt in 2009 from a black belt who is currently listed as a 4th degree bb on ibjjf. He was promoted by Romero Jacare Cavalcante who is a sitting board member of ibjjf. Back in 09 when i got my bb they didnt have all the online stuff. Incompeted at the 2009 pans in california with an active membership as a brown belt and received mu black belt only months later. I submitted video proof that is on youtube (with the date showing), proof of my active membership as a purple and brown belt, also photographic evidence with dates of my 1st, 2nd, & 3rd degree promitions by (currently certified ibjjf 4th degree black belt coach of 20 years) my coach. They recently told me im out of luck but the good news is i come off my 2 year provisional in 15 days! 👍🤨. Im at a loss how they can basically just tell me to kick bricks when my coach has submitted a request with evidence as well as myself. Money doesn’t mean that much because i have nearly 200 students i want to register with ibjjf so they can compete! 🤷🏻♂️essentially ibjjf is telling me i lost 15 years of contributions to the art and the community as far as theyre concerned. Is what it is i guess. My son will end up listed as a higher rank than myself. 😂🤣
Seems a bit messed up that my coach is verified fully but i cant be.
Seems a bit messed up that my coach is verified fully but i cant be.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Heres a different perspective. I received my black belt in 2009 from a black belt who is currently listed as a 4th degree bb on ibjjf. He was promoted by Romero Jacare Cavalcante who is a sitting board member of ibjjf. Back in 09 when i got my bb they didnt have all the online stuff. Incompeted at the 2009 pans in california with an active membership as a brown belt and received mu black belt only months later. I submitted video proof that is on youtube (with the date showing), proof of my active membership as a purple and brown belt, also photographic evidence with dates of my 1st, 2nd, & 3rd degree promitions by (currently certified ibjjf 4th degree black belt coach of 20 years) my coach. They recently told me im out of luck but the good news is i come off my 2 year provisional in 15 days! 👍🤨. Im at a loss how they can basically just tell me to kick bricks when my coach has submitted a request with evidence as well as myself. Money doesn’t mean that much because i have nearly 200 students i want to register with ibjjf so they can compete! 🤷🏻♂️essentially ibjjf is telling me i lost 15 years of contributions to the art and the community as far as theyre concerned. Is what it is i guess. My son will end up listed as a higher rank than myself. 😂🤣 Seems a bit messed up that my coach is verified fully but i cant be.
That is so messed up
JSPurple beltVerified
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
as an organization that aims to make Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu an Olympic sport, they have to maintain certain standards for rank recognition
As far as I can see, black belt isn't even a requirement for entering the olympics in judo. Wrestling and fencing are also in the olympics without belt requirements for the athletes.
So why would BJJ specifically need to "maintain certain standards for rank recognition" that is not even about "maintaining" since it's totally new? The late Helio even wore a dark blue belt, dissing the IBJJF handling of belt ranks, and the recent addition of the "provisional black belt" (no matter how many high ranking IBJJF affiliated top team BB:s endorsed it) has nothing to do with getting BJJ into the olympics.
Btw, the article you post a screenshot from is clearly from april 1:st and you also left out the last part, where he can read e.g. "As part of the opening ceremony for the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu event will include a collective bow to a portrait of Helio Gracie and Carlos Gracie Sr.".
https://jiujitsutimes.com[...]-olympics/
So why would BJJ specifically need to "maintain certain standards for rank recognition" that is not even about "maintaining" since it's totally new? The late Helio even wore a dark blue belt, dissing the IBJJF handling of belt ranks, and the recent addition of the "provisional black belt" (no matter how many high ranking IBJJF affiliated top team BB:s endorsed it) has nothing to do with getting BJJ into the olympics.
Btw, the article you post a screenshot from is clearly from april 1:st and you also left out the last part, where he can read e.g. "As part of the opening ceremony for the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu event will include a collective bow to a portrait of Helio Gracie and Carlos Gracie Sr.".
https://jiujitsutimes.com[...]-olympics/
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
...they have to maintain certain standards for rank recognition...
I'd argue that the standards here on beltchecker are higher.
DRBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I discovered this site recently and must say it was a refreshing find. I share many of the frustrations expressed in this thread with regards to the IBJJF. It's weird that they entrust a professor to give out belts but only when you become a black belt do they suddenly control your degree. In my case, my black belt was awarded one year prior to registering with them but I was not considered active. I also received two degrees from my instructor Renato Magno in the presence of Jean-Jacques Machado but when I emailed them to update my degrees they were not honored. Renato is a 6th degree under Rigan Machado yet he's still listed as 4th on the IBJJF site. Ultimately, I no longer care about their approval and it's cool to find a community that feels the same.
SEBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
As far as I can see, black belt isn't even a requirement for entering the olympics in judo. Wrestling and fencing are also in the olympics without belt requirements for the athletes. So why would BJJ specifically need to 'maintain certain standards for rank recognition' that is not even about 'maintaining' since it's totally new? The late Helio even wore a dark blue belt, dissing the IBJJF handling of belt ranks, and the recent addition of the 'provisional black belt' (no matter how many high ranking IBJJF affiliated top team BB:s endorsed it) has nothing to do with getting BJJ into the olympics. Btw, the article you post a screenshot from is clearly from april 1:st and you also left out the last part, where he can read e.g. 'As part of the opening ceremony for the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu event will include a collective bow to a portrait of Helio Gracie and Carlos Gracie Sr.'. https://jiujitsutimes.com[...]-olympics/
IOC and IBJJF would be a perfect match.☝🏻
Fitting in every aspect.
It is like two „families“ beginning to cooperate because of a big deal (the money-games in that case).
- I would like to recommend the book „Cosa Nostra“ by John Dickie. 😉
Fitting in every aspect.
It is like two „families“ beginning to cooperate because of a big deal (the money-games in that case).
- I would like to recommend the book „Cosa Nostra“ by John Dickie. 😉
Edited 3 year(s) ago
SEBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
As far as I can see, black belt isn't even a requirement for entering the olympics in judo.
Well, a BB means nothing in Judo. It is just the beginning. The coloured belts are similar to primary school. The BB 1st degree (sho dan) is entering junior high school.
Every individual, which manages to collect the necessary points in international competitions to qualify for olympic games will earn a BB before competing at the olympics.
The only reason not holding a BB could be, that the person is not even 18 years old (which is the minimum age in many national affiliations to get promoted to BB).
Apart from this: I do not know, what the rules actually are, but 30 years ago I had to hold a BB even to start at the Scandinavian Open in Judo. So maybe You have no chance to collect the necessary points for olympic games because there are no trials to join with coloured belts…
However:
In Judo there are no beginners-, advanced-, intermediate or master-divisions. It is all one.- And usually You will not have any chance in a poetry slam, when You literally even don‘t know how to spell Your name.
Every individual, which manages to collect the necessary points in international competitions to qualify for olympic games will earn a BB before competing at the olympics.
The only reason not holding a BB could be, that the person is not even 18 years old (which is the minimum age in many national affiliations to get promoted to BB).
Apart from this: I do not know, what the rules actually are, but 30 years ago I had to hold a BB even to start at the Scandinavian Open in Judo. So maybe You have no chance to collect the necessary points for olympic games because there are no trials to join with coloured belts…
However:
In Judo there are no beginners-, advanced-, intermediate or master-divisions. It is all one.- And usually You will not have any chance in a poetry slam, when You literally even don‘t know how to spell Your name.
Edited 3 year(s) ago
KWBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
I work in software. Namely, blockchain R&D which pushed my company into data integrity, machine learning, AI, etc...
An interesting idea might be to scrape the IBJJF databases that exist publicly. Maybe even public competition records to get a lot more competitors and coaches into this database. With a simple de-duplication process, you could get a much larger set of data to analyze, which helps both humans and GPT bots make decisions based on likelihood of validity from the get-go.
For example, instead of having to have a community validation for IBJJF competitors, they could just be imported directly in and given "verified" status. This also makes the database itself more valuable because it would IBJJF validated AND anyone extra who is here and been human validated - making Beltchecker the more useful database.
I've been thinking about other ways to use blockchain data and a token incentive system to revive the Maeda Project, which I thought was awesome, but also is expensive to maintain the database because it's centralized on a server. If it was distributed and used a ranking or social credit and identity verification system, it could also be integrated to make a really cool database of past, present and future rank holders.
An interesting idea might be to scrape the IBJJF databases that exist publicly. Maybe even public competition records to get a lot more competitors and coaches into this database. With a simple de-duplication process, you could get a much larger set of data to analyze, which helps both humans and GPT bots make decisions based on likelihood of validity from the get-go.
For example, instead of having to have a community validation for IBJJF competitors, they could just be imported directly in and given "verified" status. This also makes the database itself more valuable because it would IBJJF validated AND anyone extra who is here and been human validated - making Beltchecker the more useful database.
I've been thinking about other ways to use blockchain data and a token incentive system to revive the Maeda Project, which I thought was awesome, but also is expensive to maintain the database because it's centralized on a server. If it was distributed and used a ranking or social credit and identity verification system, it could also be integrated to make a really cool database of past, present and future rank holders.
FBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
Agreed, this is how it's supposed to work. If it were only friends, people coming in with no connections to verified people on the platform would be impossible to get verified. Also. you are putting your name + face there on your verification (and a link to your profile), so that should make voters to do at least some research before publicly vouching for a person even here.
This seems to be the issue I am running into getting verified. It’s a little frustrating, but understandably so.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Was just checking out a bunch of profiles and could only vote for a few of them.
I can't understand why anyone would register with a site called, "Beltchecker" and not complete their profile to the best of their abilities.
No photos, no links, no nothing.
Why bother?
Don't waste your or anyone else's time.
Try to make your profile as detailed as possible.
I haven't awarded a badge of excellence in a while because most profiles are missing details.
Also, if you get voted on by a stranger who took the time to look at your profile and check links etc. have enough manners to just say thanks. /rant
I can't understand why anyone would register with a site called, "Beltchecker" and not complete their profile to the best of their abilities.
No photos, no links, no nothing.
Why bother?
Don't waste your or anyone else's time.
Try to make your profile as detailed as possible.
I haven't awarded a badge of excellence in a while because most profiles are missing details.
Also, if you get voted on by a stranger who took the time to look at your profile and check links etc. have enough manners to just say thanks. /rant
BZBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Was just checking out a bunch of profiles and could only vote for a few of them. I can't understand why anyone would register with a site called, 'Beltchecker' and not complete their profile to the best of their abilities. No photos, no links, no nothing. Why bother? Don't waste your or anyone else's time. Try to make your profile as detailed as possible. I haven't awarded a badge of excellence in a while because most profiles are missing details. Also, if you get voted on by a stranger who took the time to look at your profile and check links etc. have enough manners to just say thanks. /rant
It's all about education, when someone help you a little "thank you" cost nothing....
About empty profiles, we already talk about it, i think 3/4 at least of the members just comes to get verified, then leaves...no votes for others, profile stay in ghost mode until the next rank...a lot of them didn't even take it seriously enough to build a good profile and go strait to ghost mode😆 then, the Last category, the people who are on Johan list for a very deep inspection and leaves by fear (those one may not even stay in a room with Ikea fourniture)
About empty profiles, we already talk about it, i think 3/4 at least of the members just comes to get verified, then leaves...no votes for others, profile stay in ghost mode until the next rank...a lot of them didn't even take it seriously enough to build a good profile and go strait to ghost mode😆 then, the Last category, the people who are on Johan list for a very deep inspection and leaves by fear (those one may not even stay in a room with Ikea fourniture)
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Please don't send friend requests looking to get verified and then not taking the time to check out and vote for the profile you friend requested.
You obviously think that person is legit enough to bum points from.
Seems like vote panhandling.
You obviously think that person is legit enough to bum points from.
Seems like vote panhandling.
BZBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Please don't send friend requests looking to get verified and then not taking the time to check out and vote for the profile you friend requested. You obviously think that person is legit enough to bum points from. Seems like vote panhandling.
I never understand the main thing about friend request on this site... why did that even exist ? The only reason for me was that the moderator/founder of beltchecker, feel lonely in the deep see of the carabean and want some virtual friendship/love from strangers.
FBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
I think it is good to have a positive report with people in different locations in case I ever decide to travel.
On the other hand I have yet to find a gym that is not hospitable to a traveler
On the other hand I have yet to find a gym that is not hospitable to a traveler
ETBlack beltPending
2 year(s) ago
Would uploading signed certificates from your professor alleviate this concern?
ORBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
An interesting idea might be to scrape the IBJJF databases that exist publicly. Maybe even public competition records to get a lot more competitors and coaches into this database.
You are assuming that the site owner's goal is to get a lot more of the BJJ community to use the database. It is not.
The site has existed for years, and it is clear that it will only represent a drop in the bucket of the global BJJ community without changes in approach and/or better promotion. I mean, there are only 82 verified profiles in the entire country of Brazil at the moment of this writing.
There have been all kinds of suggestions on increasing participation, but ultimately, it's his project and he is not interested.
The site has existed for years, and it is clear that it will only represent a drop in the bucket of the global BJJ community without changes in approach and/or better promotion. I mean, there are only 82 verified profiles in the entire country of Brazil at the moment of this writing.
There have been all kinds of suggestions on increasing participation, but ultimately, it's his project and he is not interested.
