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Well... What do you think?
6 year(s) ago • 716 views • 18 replies
ARBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
So... Here's my moral dilemma. For several years now I have been training at a club without a blackbelt. So there has been no chance of promotion (this isn't a how can I get promoted post). For the first while there was an overseeing blackbelt, an affiliation if you will. I attended a grading that I had to pay for. I was sort of confused why I had to pay extra for some guy, whom I'd never met, to either promote me or not promote me. So I paid for the "seminar", and it was, without a doubt, the worst "seminar" I'd ever been to. I learned nothing that was useful to me. I didn't get promoted, which again, I don't care, but it stuck in my craw that a blackbelt whom I had never met, nor rolled with, could stand over me with his clipboard for literally 30 seconds, and decide that I was or was not ready. That affiliation ended and now we have a new one. Sunday is a grading... that I have to pay for again... being overseen by someone I have never met, has never seen me train, I have never rolled with, and who doesn't know what I've worked on or improved on.
I'd like to hear from black belts who do gradings at academies that are under them. How do you approach it? Do you charge for it? If so why? Anything else you want to say?
I don't know if I'll attend. I said I wouldn't go to a grading again that I have to pay for. I don't want to be a hypocrite. I already pay a lot of money a month to be part of this club. I understand it's a business and I'm happy to pay my monthly dues.
Anthony
I'd like to hear from black belts who do gradings at academies that are under them. How do you approach it? Do you charge for it? If so why? Anything else you want to say?
I don't know if I'll attend. I said I wouldn't go to a grading again that I have to pay for. I don't want to be a hypocrite. I already pay a lot of money a month to be part of this club. I understand it's a business and I'm happy to pay my monthly dues.
Anthony
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
But every student of Jiu Jitsu must have a certified black belt to oversee their training, for the safety and integrity of the sport!! (-IBJJF)
Edited 6 year(s) ago
AKPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I'm not a black belt, but i am in a similar situation to you. My club doesn't have a resident black belt, my instructors (black belt) instructor is about a 75 minute drive away.
I pay monthly to train. When I got my first 2 stripes, a black belt visited our club from the parent club. We didn't pay extra for the session, he rolled with all of us and didn't have any inclination to debate my instructors recommendation of who should get which stripes. The teaching he did was solid and i learnt from it. The next two stripes were awarded without a black belt present at a regular training session.
Without sounding arrogant, I am not far off a blue belt and i'm not entirely sure how it will work out when i get promoted. I've offered to drive up to the black belts club if he wants to have a more substantial roll with me. It does feel odd knowing that the name going on my beltchecker profile will be a person i've yet to actually meet. We are a small club so if i was asked to pay extra for a seminar, it wouldn't bother me. I pay £55 a month, which isn't massive. But if i was at a larger club then the implication that i had to pay for a seminar, to get promote would grate on me.
I pay monthly to train. When I got my first 2 stripes, a black belt visited our club from the parent club. We didn't pay extra for the session, he rolled with all of us and didn't have any inclination to debate my instructors recommendation of who should get which stripes. The teaching he did was solid and i learnt from it. The next two stripes were awarded without a black belt present at a regular training session.
Without sounding arrogant, I am not far off a blue belt and i'm not entirely sure how it will work out when i get promoted. I've offered to drive up to the black belts club if he wants to have a more substantial roll with me. It does feel odd knowing that the name going on my beltchecker profile will be a person i've yet to actually meet. We are a small club so if i was asked to pay extra for a seminar, it wouldn't bother me. I pay £55 a month, which isn't massive. But if i was at a larger club then the implication that i had to pay for a seminar, to get promote would grate on me.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
So... Here's my moral dilemma. For several years now I have been training at a club without a blackbelt. So there has been no chance of promotion (this isn't a how can I get promoted post). For the first while there was an overseeing blackbelt, an affiliation if you will. I attended a grading that I had to pay for. I was sort of confused why I had to pay extra for some guy, whom I'd never met, to either promote me or not promote me. So I paid for the 'seminar', and it was, without a doubt, the worst 'seminar' I'd ever been to. I learned nothing that was useful to me. I didn't get promoted, which again, I don't care, but it stuck in my craw that a blackbelt whom I had never met, nor rolled with, could stand over me with his clipboard for literally 30 seconds, and decide that I was or was not ready. That affiliation ended and now we have a new one. Sunday is a grading... that I have to pay for again... being overseen by someone I have never met, has never seen me train, I have never rolled with, and who doesn't know what I've worked on or improved on. I'd like to hear from black belts who do gradings at academies that are under them. How do you approach it? Do you charge for it? If so why? Anything else you want to say? I don't know if I'll attend. I said I wouldn't go to a grading again that I have to pay for. I don't want to be a hypocrite. I already pay a lot of money a month to be part of this club. I understand it's a business and I'm happy to pay my monthly dues. Anthony
Charging for grading stinks to me. I never paid for it nor will I ever charge for it. Belts are earned through consistent training. Your monthly fee should cover everything except seminars and even then GH Bolton has visiting Black Belts teach a workshop (paid for by the academy) that the student get for free. I understand that it is a business but nickle and diming is not good for anything other than filling the pockets of whoever is doing the charging.
ARBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
But every student of Jiu Jitsu must have a certified black belt to oversee their training, for the safety and integrity of the sport!! (-IBJJF)
You couldn't contain yourself, could you? :)
ARBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Charging for grading stinks to me. I never paid for it nor will I ever charge for it. Belts are earned through consistent training. Your monthly fee should cover everything except seminars and even then GH Bolton has visiting Black Belts teach a workshop (paid for by the academy) that the student get for free. I understand that it is a business but nickle and diming is not good for anything other than filling the pockets of whoever is doing the charging.
That's kind of how I feel as well. I have no problem paying for seminars. I think some are over priced, but that's neither here nor there. To me, if you're going to run a club where your intention is to promote people, should that not be included in the service you provide? Sigh... At least with the couple of promotions I have seen at BJJG camps, many, if not all the black belts know the person and roll with them for an honest evaluation.
LSBrown beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
So... Here's my moral dilemma. For several years now I have been training at a club without a blackbelt. So there has been no chance of promotion (this isn't a how can I get promoted post). For the first while there was an overseeing blackbelt, an affiliation if you will. I attended a grading that I had to pay for. I was sort of confused why I had to pay extra for some guy, whom I'd never met, to either promote me or not promote me. So I paid for the 'seminar', and it was, without a doubt, the worst 'seminar' I'd ever been to. I learned nothing that was useful to me. I didn't get promoted, which again, I don't care, but it stuck in my craw that a blackbelt whom I had never met, nor rolled with, could stand over me with his clipboard for literally 30 seconds, and decide that I was or was not ready. That affiliation ended and now we have a new one. Sunday is a grading... that I have to pay for again... being overseen by someone I have never met, has never seen me train, I have never rolled with, and who doesn't know what I've worked on or improved on. I'd like to hear from black belts who do gradings at academies that are under them. How do you approach it? Do you charge for it? If so why? Anything else you want to say? I don't know if I'll attend. I said I wouldn't go to a grading again that I have to pay for. I don't want to be a hypocrite. I already pay a lot of money a month to be part of this club. I understand it's a business and I'm happy to pay my monthly dues. Anthony
I'm no black belt but that sounds like McDojo shit, I have never heard of a serious club (at least not in Sweden) who makes students pay for promotions.
ARBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I'm no black belt but that sounds like McDojo shit, I have never heard of a serious club (at least not in Sweden) who makes students pay for promotions.
It's fairly common in Canada...
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
It's fairly common in Canada...
If so, it's a money grab Anthony. Why should you pay for something you've already worked for? You are the one putting in the time to get better. Your instructor is compensated for his time through agreed upon monthly dues. That should cover any testing, belts, certificates and photos if they do that. Sorry to hear this is going on.
ARBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
If so, it's a money grab Anthony. Why should you pay for something you've already worked for? You are the one putting in the time to get better. Your instructor is compensated for his time through agreed upon monthly dues. That should cover any testing, belts, certificates and photos if they do that. Sorry to hear this is going on.
You'd know the person... Toronto area...
Update: Anyways, I've been assured that the fee is for the seminar and the grading is secondary. I hope that's the case.
Update: Anyways, I've been assured that the fee is for the seminar and the grading is secondary. I hope that's the case.
JWBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I've seen both sides of the coin with testing. I'm also a 4th degree black belt in TKD. I had to pay for every belt test. The color belts weren't too bad around $50. When you went to Black Belt the 1st degree was $300 (and that was in 1997). Every degree from there went up $125. In BJJ my instructor never held a testing and never charged us. When he felt you were ready to be promoted, you got promoted. Now that I run my own academy I don't have testings. I promote my students when they are ready. I don't charge them for a stripe, belt or certificate. I pay for those. I like the BJJ way better. I have personally seen people in TKD not promote because they couldn't afford it even though skill wise they were more than qualified.
PHBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Charging for grading stinks to me. I never paid for it nor will I ever charge for it. Belts are earned through consistent training. Your monthly fee should cover everything except seminars and even then GH Bolton has visiting Black Belts teach a workshop (paid for by the academy) that the student get for free. I understand that it is a business but nickle and diming is not good for anything other than filling the pockets of whoever is doing the charging.
I completely agree! Charging for grading seems like a very shady way to do it. If the gym has to pay for the travel costs of a black belt coming for these events, then bake that into the monthly fee. When you charge for promotions it feels like it is more about the money and less about the validity of the student's skills.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
MBrown beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Paying a seminar fee is standard and ok in my opinion. I think value not price!
But when it comes to Grading/belt tests/ promotion, I would never charge my members any money and my Coaches didn’t charge extra fees either.
But when it comes to Grading/belt tests/ promotion, I would never charge my members any money and my Coaches didn’t charge extra fees either.
TPBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
https://www.youtube.com/w[...]9iB-xy0u4A
Before clicking this I was already planning to file a complaint if it isn't a Monty Python video.... Well :D
CBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I think paying for seminars is just fine. There is no way to get promoted, but I still go if I can afford it. Luckily I have never been to bad seminar. There is always something to learn, new concept, technique or a different way of thinking or teaching.
McDojo shit I can't stand. My gym has some martial arts that hold paid graduations almost every other month. It's an obvious cash grab. Sadly the gym owners don't understand it, as they are not familiar with martial arts at all. I guess that's how some martial arts work and the instructors get paid their share.
I'm thinking about organising some technique workshops at my gym. Gotta make money somehow. There will be no graduations. Purely about trying to help people get better with their jiu-jitsu. I will never charge people for it and I will always try to keep them as a surprise.
McDojo shit I can't stand. My gym has some martial arts that hold paid graduations almost every other month. It's an obvious cash grab. Sadly the gym owners don't understand it, as they are not familiar with martial arts at all. I guess that's how some martial arts work and the instructors get paid their share.
I'm thinking about organising some technique workshops at my gym. Gotta make money somehow. There will be no graduations. Purely about trying to help people get better with their jiu-jitsu. I will never charge people for it and I will always try to keep them as a surprise.
SCBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Its a money grab as others stated. I honestly wouldn't join any association that is built on that model. My association has gyms that dont have resident black belts anywhere near but we all keep track of the gyms closest to us. and when the time comes either one of us goes out to the gym ( usually for a seminar) * but its a paid seminar for everyone and promotions usually follow if the resident instructor is running it. Now for the instructor to get promoted, his progress is usually tracked by one of the black belts that may hae visited or when we have our annual Training camp. but if you instructing and progress can be seen made over that time that you are supposed to get your belt, then its present at the training camp. Which is usually a lot of training and rolling some of the black belts will suggest the promotion.
we had a brown belt that came in from another assocation. his school is about 2 hours from anyone else in the association. MY professor and I traveled down there (8hours) to train with him and do belt promotions for the people that he suggested. ( well i ended up testing everyone honestly... ) *as a purple belt*..
I gave the ok about the promotions and my professor assisted him and presenting everyone with their belts. and i rolled with the brown belt also. ( this was about jun).
IN OCT we went to our annual training camp and the brown belt was promoted to black belt because of the ok from my professor and I ( which actually made me happier than me) .
You really have to find an association that fits well with you and not for their pockets. We are like a family and that black belt now was one of the first ones to congratulate me when i got my black belt .
we had a brown belt that came in from another assocation. his school is about 2 hours from anyone else in the association. MY professor and I traveled down there (8hours) to train with him and do belt promotions for the people that he suggested. ( well i ended up testing everyone honestly... ) *as a purple belt*..
I gave the ok about the promotions and my professor assisted him and presenting everyone with their belts. and i rolled with the brown belt also. ( this was about jun).
IN OCT we went to our annual training camp and the brown belt was promoted to black belt because of the ok from my professor and I ( which actually made me happier than me) .
You really have to find an association that fits well with you and not for their pockets. We are like a family and that black belt now was one of the first ones to congratulate me when i got my black belt .
JPBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I've never paid a fee for a belt test, and I've never charged anyone either. I've paid my coach to do seminars, but I don't even think that covered his hotel, travel, etc. fully. Before I was a black belt, he'd promote my students, and he never asked them for a dime either. I don't begrudge anyone who has bills to pay in order to keep a school open. I completely agree that students need to support the school, but I think the monthly fee should be all that they need to pay. Seminars are extra, and optional, but if someone can't swing the seminar fee and want to come, I've always let it slide. Something about the idea of paying for stripes and belts just doesn't sit well with me. Not even Gracie Barra charges for belts and stripes. Just my 2 cents.
DKBlue beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Rank.. if I roll with you and we have a good time, that's good enough for me. If some higher belt rolls with me and thinks I can't be the color I am and thinks I need a stripe or promotion. That's on them.. I don't mind. Just lemme roll brotha.
Don't pay for no promotion. It's literally, to me, a payment to inflate the ego. It's not worth it. I'd rather be blue belt whose belt is falling apart than pay for a promotion.
Don't pay for no promotion. It's literally, to me, a payment to inflate the ego. It's not worth it. I'd rather be blue belt whose belt is falling apart than pay for a promotion.
