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IBJJF vrs Grappling Industries
6 year(s) ago • 3905 views • 33 replies
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
So the following is an opinion posted by a guy called Shawn Chitwood. I came across it since Grappling Industries owner David Aguzzi highlighted it. Needless to say, we all have our own biases, but I still think it's an interesting debate.
Personally, I agree with the general point of the article. Maybe I think the trend will take a bit longer than Shawn, but overall I agree. Now I'm just a white belt with 31 matches so what the flip do I know? Yes, most were at Grappling Industries so there's my bias. But there's a reason for that bias. It's nothing something I formed because I arbitrarily started doing one competition type and like to stick with what I know. A little over a year ago, I looked at the rules and formats of Grappling Industries, NAGA, ADCC, IBJJF and DSD Events. I then ranked them and since Grappling Industries ramped up its European tournaments then I've never needed to go outside my 1st, 2nd and 3rd preference. I go on globetrotters camps. When I talk to other white belts, nobody has ever said they compete in IBJJF because they prefer the rules and weighing in right before you compete. Some consider it more prestigious and I get their point of view, but the vast majority were just funneled their by their academy and discouraged from competing elsewhere. Hence, as a newbie, IBJJF just looks like a house of cards to me. Maybe I'm wrong and the virus panic will wipe out Grappling Industries, but it's still an interesting opinion. Here's the original post:
My prediction to the whole IBJJF tournament evolution.
Up til Current day:
The IBJJF is the Gold Standard for grappling titles and ability (with limitations in legal submissions and entanglements) All others are minor leagues. You won NAGA or Grappling Industries Championships? "oh that's nice"....
In the Not So Distant Future:
With the growing popularity of Grappling Industries and them beginning to hold World Championship Events, it will not take long before they are the Gold Standard and the IBJJF will be the minor leagues.
Why?
Simple: RULE SETS. A more diverse range of allowable submissions illustrates a better jiu-jitsu champion than a sweep, pin and hold/stall tournament.
You may say that the IBJJF draws more people and higher quality competitors but GI is drawing large numbers and they will have 2000 at their first world championships. It will only grow larger and there will be a shift.
Those who can only play a certain "game" will be relegated to the IBJJF events where they can safely hide. They will avoid a tournament where a more broad spectrum of submissions and entanglements are allowed for fear of exposure. Americans are better at wrestling and lower leg submissions/entanglements.
I saw this at the Arnold's where I witnessed multiple teams of Brazilians who are imported to be IBJJF champions lose matches by submissions they will not see in the IBJJF and then complain about reaping, several to my competitors even.
Jiu-jitsu is about the submission. It is sad that it has become a game of first to 2 points wins.
In 5 to 10 years, if you are a Grappling Industries World Champion, you will be the Gold Standard jiu-jitsu practioner. In the same time, If you're an IBJJF champion you will be irrelevant because.... well it's just minor league grappling.
Change my mind.
In the 70s and 80s the Japanese lost control of their dominance in Judo when many Russian Sombo experts began using gripping and throwing strategies foreign to the Japanese. So in response, rather than improve their own gripping and throwing strategies, they imposed rules banning those grips and throws to retain control of their sport. Sound familiar?
Personally, I agree with the general point of the article. Maybe I think the trend will take a bit longer than Shawn, but overall I agree. Now I'm just a white belt with 31 matches so what the flip do I know? Yes, most were at Grappling Industries so there's my bias. But there's a reason for that bias. It's nothing something I formed because I arbitrarily started doing one competition type and like to stick with what I know. A little over a year ago, I looked at the rules and formats of Grappling Industries, NAGA, ADCC, IBJJF and DSD Events. I then ranked them and since Grappling Industries ramped up its European tournaments then I've never needed to go outside my 1st, 2nd and 3rd preference. I go on globetrotters camps. When I talk to other white belts, nobody has ever said they compete in IBJJF because they prefer the rules and weighing in right before you compete. Some consider it more prestigious and I get their point of view, but the vast majority were just funneled their by their academy and discouraged from competing elsewhere. Hence, as a newbie, IBJJF just looks like a house of cards to me. Maybe I'm wrong and the virus panic will wipe out Grappling Industries, but it's still an interesting opinion. Here's the original post:
My prediction to the whole IBJJF tournament evolution.
Up til Current day:
The IBJJF is the Gold Standard for grappling titles and ability (with limitations in legal submissions and entanglements) All others are minor leagues. You won NAGA or Grappling Industries Championships? "oh that's nice"....
In the Not So Distant Future:
With the growing popularity of Grappling Industries and them beginning to hold World Championship Events, it will not take long before they are the Gold Standard and the IBJJF will be the minor leagues.
Why?
Simple: RULE SETS. A more diverse range of allowable submissions illustrates a better jiu-jitsu champion than a sweep, pin and hold/stall tournament.
You may say that the IBJJF draws more people and higher quality competitors but GI is drawing large numbers and they will have 2000 at their first world championships. It will only grow larger and there will be a shift.
Those who can only play a certain "game" will be relegated to the IBJJF events where they can safely hide. They will avoid a tournament where a more broad spectrum of submissions and entanglements are allowed for fear of exposure. Americans are better at wrestling and lower leg submissions/entanglements.
I saw this at the Arnold's where I witnessed multiple teams of Brazilians who are imported to be IBJJF champions lose matches by submissions they will not see in the IBJJF and then complain about reaping, several to my competitors even.
Jiu-jitsu is about the submission. It is sad that it has become a game of first to 2 points wins.
In 5 to 10 years, if you are a Grappling Industries World Champion, you will be the Gold Standard jiu-jitsu practioner. In the same time, If you're an IBJJF champion you will be irrelevant because.... well it's just minor league grappling.
Change my mind.
In the 70s and 80s the Japanese lost control of their dominance in Judo when many Russian Sombo experts began using gripping and throwing strategies foreign to the Japanese. So in response, rather than improve their own gripping and throwing strategies, they imposed rules banning those grips and throws to retain control of their sport. Sound familiar?
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
"In the 70s and 80s the Japanese lost control of their dominance in Judo when many Russian Sombo experts began using gripping and throwing strategies foreign to the Japanese. So in response, rather than improve their own gripping and throwing strategies, they imposed rules banning those grips and throws to retain control of their sport. Sound familiar?"
Yeah, the modern IJF rules leave so much to be desired.
Yeah, the modern IJF rules leave so much to be desired.
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I’ve never competed at a grappling industries event before. However, I follow them on social media and they have been selling lifetime passes to help cover expenses with all of their cancellations. I whole heartedly believe that having more competitions available is good for the sport. For that reason, I purchased a lifetime pass.
My experience with this process has been incredibly positive. While it’s a lot of money up front it may be a huge money saver for some people. Will I get my money out of it? Who knows, but if people buying the passes keeps them in business then I will benefit from it indirectly at very least.
My experience with this process has been incredibly positive. While it’s a lot of money up front it may be a huge money saver for some people. Will I get my money out of it? Who knows, but if people buying the passes keeps them in business then I will benefit from it indirectly at very least.
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
'In the 70s and 80s the Japanese lost control of their dominance in Judo when many Russian Sombo experts began using gripping and throwing strategies foreign to the Japanese. So in response, rather than improve their own gripping and throwing strategies, they imposed rules banning those grips and throws to retain control of their sport. Sound familiar?' Yeah, the modern IJF rules leave so much to be desired.
As a new comer to BJJ, most the IBJJF rules seem designed to make guard successful than create an environment where ground fighting strategies can be optimised
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I’ve never competed at a grappling industries event before. However, I follow them on social media and they have been selling lifetime passes to help cover expenses with all of their cancellations. I whole heartedly believe that having more competitions available is good for the sport. For that reason, I purchased a lifetime pass. My experience with this process has been incredibly positive. While it’s a lot of money up front it may be a huge money saver for some people. Will I get my money out of it? Who knows, but if people buying the passes keeps them in business then I will benefit from it indirectly at very least.
I've done 6 of their competitions. The basic concept is that you're paying roughly double (£60 vrs £30) compared to what it might cost to enter a local tournament. But you're getting up to 8 matches, guaranteed. That's compared to 2 guaranteed at most tournaments so it's much better value for money.
The organisation is all on smoothcomp which i love, makes it easy to change divisions if you want more / less matches. Weigh-in when you get there, none of this bollocks getting DQ'd an hour before your match because you drank too much water. No bullshit about you wearing Gi's with patches or its the wrong shade of blue. Better rule set than IBJJF in my opinion too. Prolific sandbagging in the NoGi divisions though....
The organisation is all on smoothcomp which i love, makes it easy to change divisions if you want more / less matches. Weigh-in when you get there, none of this bollocks getting DQ'd an hour before your match because you drank too much water. No bullshit about you wearing Gi's with patches or its the wrong shade of blue. Better rule set than IBJJF in my opinion too. Prolific sandbagging in the NoGi divisions though....
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I've done 6 of their competitions. The basic concept is that you're paying roughly double (£60 vrs £30) compared to what it might cost to enter a local tournament. But you're getting up to 8 matches, guaranteed. That's compared to 2 guaranteed at most tournaments so it's much better value for money. The organisation is all on smoothcomp which i love, makes it easy to change divisions if you want more / less matches. Weigh-in when you get there, none of this bollocks getting DQ'd an hour before your match because you drank too much water. No bullshit about you wearing Gi's with patches or its the wrong shade of blue. Better rule set than IBJJF in my opinion too. Prolific sandbagging in the NoGi divisions though....
Appreciate the feedback. No gi registration should go by belt level in my opinion.
Black beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I competed at GI tournaments before they were GI; Montreal Grappling. Their tournaments have always been fantastic. It's been amazing to see their evolution. The toughest competition that I've faced has been at their events. Although, I've never done any IBJJF tournaments.
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Appreciate the feedback. No gi registration should go by belt level in my opinion.
It's something that is being debated and they will likely change it fairly soon-ish. As a purple belt, do you think you should be Intermediate and mixed with Blue belts or advanced and mixed with Brown and Black?
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
It's something that is being debated and they will likely change it fairly soon-ish. As a purple belt, do you think you should be Intermediate and mixed with Blue belts or advanced and mixed with Brown and Black?
Due to the length of time I’ve been training I couldn’t justify going intermediate although skill wise I don’t belong in advanced lol.
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Due to the length of time I’ve been training I couldn’t justify going intermediate although skill wise I don’t belong in advanced lol.
There's a perpetual problem sometime after blue belt, there's a split between hobbyists and people who make their living from BJJ. As a hobbyist who is never going to train more than 5 hours a week, i don't see how i could ever really compete with someone on the mats 20+ hours per week. Even if they are teaching, that still advances their skill level massively. I think that in a perfect world, the fairest system would be brackets based on mat hours. But not very practical until we all have microchips in our palms.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I don’t think fairness is a necessity. The people that train more, have more talent, etc should win.
Black beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I’ve done one GI tournament and been to two others. I had a positive experience overall, but the all-day blasting music really needs to go...
Black beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I've competed in both IBJJF and Grappling Industries multiple times. The main difference I see at this point is the level of professionalism. IBJJF runs like a legit major sporting organization, while Grappling Industries does not. Dave Aguzzi lets his emotions gets the best of him and goes on public rants if anyone says a bad word about GI or him in a public forum. It's some real bush league behavior for someone who is trying to legitimize his promotion. You'll never see IBJJF do that.
The first Grappling Industries tournament I competed in, one of the guys in my division said that he didn't even weigh in. Admittedly, this was like 4 years ago and they have likely made improvements. Also, the first GI tournament I did, their t-shirts that they gave out (do they even give out t-shirts anymore?) were cheesy as fuck (Make Grappling Great Again).....so cringey. This is just my opinion, but makes a huge difference. The IBJJF t-shirts that they give out are fairly tasteful and well branded.
I'm going to have to disagree with the article on this one. When it comes to gi jiu-jitsu, the IBJJF is here to stay. No other organization or tournament holds the same notoriety as they do. When you say you're a World Champion or that you won "Worlds"....everyone thinks IBJJF. They've done a great job putting themselves in a position to be the authority and "governing body" of BJJ up until now. While I love the fact that I can compete for free at Grappling Industries as a brown belt, I hold an IBJJF gold medal in higher regard than a GI gold medal at this point, and I don't see that changing for quite some time.....
Just my opinion, though.
The first Grappling Industries tournament I competed in, one of the guys in my division said that he didn't even weigh in. Admittedly, this was like 4 years ago and they have likely made improvements. Also, the first GI tournament I did, their t-shirts that they gave out (do they even give out t-shirts anymore?) were cheesy as fuck (Make Grappling Great Again).....so cringey. This is just my opinion, but makes a huge difference. The IBJJF t-shirts that they give out are fairly tasteful and well branded.
I'm going to have to disagree with the article on this one. When it comes to gi jiu-jitsu, the IBJJF is here to stay. No other organization or tournament holds the same notoriety as they do. When you say you're a World Champion or that you won "Worlds"....everyone thinks IBJJF. They've done a great job putting themselves in a position to be the authority and "governing body" of BJJ up until now. While I love the fact that I can compete for free at Grappling Industries as a brown belt, I hold an IBJJF gold medal in higher regard than a GI gold medal at this point, and I don't see that changing for quite some time.....
Just my opinion, though.
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I've competed in both IBJJF and Grappling Industries multiple times. The main difference I see at this point is the level of professionalism. IBJJF runs like a legit major sporting organization, while Grappling Industries does not. Dave Aguzzi lets his emotions gets the best of him and goes on public rants if anyone says a bad word about GI or him in a public forum. It's some real bush league behavior for someone who is trying to legitimize his promotion. You'll never see IBJJF do that. The first Grappling Industries tournament I competed in, one of the guys in my division said that he didn't even weigh in. Admittedly, this was like 4 years ago and they have likely made improvements. Also, the first GI tournament I did, their t-shirts that they gave out (do they even give out t-shirts anymore?) were cheesy as fuck (Make Grappling Great Again).....so cringey. This is just my opinion, but makes a huge difference. The IBJJF t-shirts that they give out are fairly tasteful and well branded. I'm going to have to disagree with the article on this one. When it comes to gi jiu-jitsu, the IBJJF is here to stay. No other organization or tournament holds the same notoriety as they do. When you say you're a World Champion or that you won 'Worlds'....everyone thinks IBJJF. They've done a great job putting themselves in a position to be the authority and 'governing body' of BJJ up until now. While I love the fact that I can compete for free at Grappling Industries as a brown belt, I hold an IBJJF gold medal in higher regard than a GI gold medal at this point, and I don't see that changing for quite some time..... Just my opinion, though.
I do understand where you are coming from, but what you call "professionalism" can look to others like just offering a shit competitor experience. I haven't done an IBJJF event so I'm only going on what I've heard, but it feels like they look for reasons to disqualify you, where Grappling Industries look for reasons to let you compete.
Anecdotes of what I've heard at IBJJF events:
- having to wait in an isolation pen for over an hour before a match without proper access to water or food
- being prevented from drinking water before a match because they were near the mat
- mass disqualifications because of weight and having no time to lose it
- disqualifications over minor Gi violations like patches
Look Grappling Industries events aren't perfect. I expect IBJJF runs to time more, but I feel like that probably comes at a cost to the competitors. I don't know when Grappling Industries moved to smoothcomp, but that would certainly prevent you being able to compete without weighting in now.
Anecdotes of what I've heard at IBJJF events:
- having to wait in an isolation pen for over an hour before a match without proper access to water or food
- being prevented from drinking water before a match because they were near the mat
- mass disqualifications because of weight and having no time to lose it
- disqualifications over minor Gi violations like patches
Look Grappling Industries events aren't perfect. I expect IBJJF runs to time more, but I feel like that probably comes at a cost to the competitors. I don't know when Grappling Industries moved to smoothcomp, but that would certainly prevent you being able to compete without weighting in now.
Blue beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
A few things your leaving out about GI, or rather, one big one. Their ubiquitous.
They're showing up to these smaller towns with people hungry to compete locally in a polished tournament.
For years we were rolling at one tournament locally here a year. And it was put on by one of our local gyms. Because of quarrels one gym or another wouldn't show up.. claiming biases.
As a judoka first, man I cannot believe what's happened to judo. I am a freestyle judo 2nd degree black because judo is supposed to be the jack of all trades master of none. They've distanced themselves to be this very niche product to stay in the Olympics and deal with opposing competitors (as you said) judo has all those leg take downs and a rather broad range of newaza/mat work.. but the rules have been killing it non stop. Freestyle judo has been looking to bring that back (think of fight 2 win judo, freestyle is similar to that) and have been doing so for years. Most everyone that's certified through freestyle entirely agrees that the ijf has really screwed with the perception of what judo is. And we won't have a part of that.
Back to GI...
They come to my (backwater) town twice a year. Sometimes 3 times. It's a polished tournament that knows that they will get a turnout from us still. And good for them. I hope they become the defacto for all the reasons you mentioned plus this one. Many of my students are college students (we in freestyle judo prefer bjj tournaments because of the broad spectrum of rules we can use, I'm mainly doing bjj cuz I wanna be a better freestyle judoka and prefer the matwork side of it) who have no money to go out of town constantly to compete. So it's nice to have them come to us.
They're showing up to these smaller towns with people hungry to compete locally in a polished tournament.
For years we were rolling at one tournament locally here a year. And it was put on by one of our local gyms. Because of quarrels one gym or another wouldn't show up.. claiming biases.
As a judoka first, man I cannot believe what's happened to judo. I am a freestyle judo 2nd degree black because judo is supposed to be the jack of all trades master of none. They've distanced themselves to be this very niche product to stay in the Olympics and deal with opposing competitors (as you said) judo has all those leg take downs and a rather broad range of newaza/mat work.. but the rules have been killing it non stop. Freestyle judo has been looking to bring that back (think of fight 2 win judo, freestyle is similar to that) and have been doing so for years. Most everyone that's certified through freestyle entirely agrees that the ijf has really screwed with the perception of what judo is. And we won't have a part of that.
Back to GI...
They come to my (backwater) town twice a year. Sometimes 3 times. It's a polished tournament that knows that they will get a turnout from us still. And good for them. I hope they become the defacto for all the reasons you mentioned plus this one. Many of my students are college students (we in freestyle judo prefer bjj tournaments because of the broad spectrum of rules we can use, I'm mainly doing bjj cuz I wanna be a better freestyle judoka and prefer the matwork side of it) who have no money to go out of town constantly to compete. So it's nice to have them come to us.
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I've done 6 of their competitions. The basic concept is that you're paying roughly double (£60 vrs £30) compared to what it might cost to enter a local tournament. But you're getting up to 8 matches, guaranteed. That's compared to 2 guaranteed at most tournaments so it's much better value for money. The organisation is all on smoothcomp which i love, makes it easy to change divisions if you want more / less matches. Weigh-in when you get there, none of this bollocks getting DQ'd an hour before your match because you drank too much water. No bullshit about you wearing Gi's with patches or its the wrong shade of blue. Better rule set than IBJJF in my opinion too. Prolific sandbagging in the NoGi divisions though....
8 guaranteed matches? That's awesome
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
8 guaranteed matches? That's awesome
Yeah so it's all organised on smoothcomp. As long as you enter into a division where another 4 people have signed up, then it works like the world cup - 4 group stage matches with the top people going into a knockout stage. So enter Gi and you get 4 guaranteed matches, entering NoGi doesn't cost extra and then you get another 4. With absolute and elimination stages matches, i've seen people have 17 matches in one day. I had to do 7 NoGi matches to medal in Sydney because the division was quite big.
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I am not a big fan of the IBJJF I feel they put money way before everything else.. They tend not to treat the competitors like paying customers.. That said I compete at both and personally I prefer the ruleset for grappling industries and the atmosphere and attitude of the people working it but the IBJJF gets a lot more competitors and the lowest I have had to drop for a match at an IBJJF event was Masters 2 while at Grappling industries sometimes I am lucky to get an opponent in Masters Absolute... I think as Grappling industries grows that will change and honestly as the SJJIF and NABJJ grow the IBJJF will be under pressure to change.. The NABJJF / SJJIF allows black belts to compete for free and treats the competitors like family..
I am honestly looking forward to seeing how the sport changes over the next couple years
I am honestly looking forward to seeing how the sport changes over the next couple years
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I haven't done an IBJJF event so I'm only going on what I've heard
Hi Alexander, My experience with IBJJF has been very different than the experience of people you heard from. I've done a variety of tournaments, and IBJJF by far is the most professional one with the most qualified refs (yes, there are ref mistakes, but the overall level is def higher than other comps).
As far as the specifics of what you've heard:
- Not (really) an issue: "having to wait in an isolation pen for over an hour before a match without proper access to water or food" Yes, you definitely might wait in the pen for more than an hour, but you can bring in as much water and food as you want (I do), and your mates can also hand you whatever you need from outside the pen.
- Not (really) an issue: "being prevented from drinking water before a match because they were near the mat" Yeah, step back from the mat and drink your fill.
- This one is true: "disqualifications because of weight and having no time to lose it." You definitely have to be on weight. The time of your first match is published several days before the competition, and you are required to be ready to weigh in an hour beforehand. One can't really do UFC-style weight loss, draining yourself of water up to the second before stepping on the scale - nor do I think it's healthy to do so. Pick a weight class that does not require dehydration, and get there with at least a day (or a week) to spare.
- This one is kinda true: "disqualifications over minor Gi violations like patches" - you are NOT going to get disqualified, you just can't compete in a GI that does not fit the criteria. You can change into a different GI, though, no disqualification.
Give it a try sometime, whenever we are back to competing...
As far as the specifics of what you've heard:
- Not (really) an issue: "having to wait in an isolation pen for over an hour before a match without proper access to water or food" Yes, you definitely might wait in the pen for more than an hour, but you can bring in as much water and food as you want (I do), and your mates can also hand you whatever you need from outside the pen.
- Not (really) an issue: "being prevented from drinking water before a match because they were near the mat" Yeah, step back from the mat and drink your fill.
- This one is true: "disqualifications because of weight and having no time to lose it." You definitely have to be on weight. The time of your first match is published several days before the competition, and you are required to be ready to weigh in an hour beforehand. One can't really do UFC-style weight loss, draining yourself of water up to the second before stepping on the scale - nor do I think it's healthy to do so. Pick a weight class that does not require dehydration, and get there with at least a day (or a week) to spare.
- This one is kinda true: "disqualifications over minor Gi violations like patches" - you are NOT going to get disqualified, you just can't compete in a GI that does not fit the criteria. You can change into a different GI, though, no disqualification.
Give it a try sometime, whenever we are back to competing...
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Hi Alexander, My experience with IBJJF has been very different than the experience of people you heard from. I've done a variety of tournaments, and IBJJF by far is the most professional one with the most qualified refs (yes, there are ref mistakes, but the overall level is def higher than other comps). As far as the specifics of what you've heard: - Not (really) an issue: 'having to wait in an isolation pen for over an hour before a match without proper access to water or food' Yes, you definitely might wait in the pen for more than an hour, but you can bring in as much water and food as you want (I do), and your mates can also hand you whatever you need from outside the pen. - Not (really) an issue: 'being prevented from drinking water before a match because they were near the mat' Yeah, step back from the mat and drink your fill. - This one is true: 'disqualifications because of weight and having no time to lose it.' You definitely have to be on weight. The time of your first match is published several days before the competition, and you are required to be ready to weigh in an hour beforehand. One can't really do UFC-style weight loss, draining yourself of water up to the second before stepping on the scale - nor do I think it's healthy to do so. Pick a weight class that does not require dehydration, and get there with at least a day (or a week) to spare. - This one is kinda true: 'disqualifications over minor Gi violations like patches' - you are NOT going to get disqualified, you just can't compete in a GI that does not fit the criteria. You can change into a different GI, though, no disqualification. Give it a try sometime, whenever we are back to competing...
Thanks for the reply. I should say that many people consider the events very professional and you're also not the first person to mention that standard of referees being better.
Personally i will never compete in IBJJF because i don't like the limited rule set, don't like the knockout format and in my opinion, making weight is part of being an athlete. I'm not talking about UFC style weight cuts, which i agree are unhealthy and should be stopped. But if your walk around weight is 160lbs then part of being an athlete is knowing how to get on the scales at 155lbs, not competing at 170lbs and giving up 10lbs. It seems insane to me that the IBJJF does so much to discourage weight cutting, but relatively little to discourage sand bagging or steroids.
Personally i will never compete in IBJJF because i don't like the limited rule set, don't like the knockout format and in my opinion, making weight is part of being an athlete. I'm not talking about UFC style weight cuts, which i agree are unhealthy and should be stopped. But if your walk around weight is 160lbs then part of being an athlete is knowing how to get on the scales at 155lbs, not competing at 170lbs and giving up 10lbs. It seems insane to me that the IBJJF does so much to discourage weight cutting, but relatively little to discourage sand bagging or steroids.
Black beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
It seems insane to me that the IBJJF does so much to discourage weight cutting, but relatively little to discourage sand bagging or steroids.
Does this also bother you about every other organization as well, or just the IBJJF? GI doesn't do anything about those things either. Additionally, how does the IBJJF discourage weight cutting? You pick the weight you want to compete at, not them. It's up to you if you want to compete at a weight class that's close to your walk-around weight, or if you want to move down in order to be closer to the top of your weight division.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Does this also bother you about every other organization as well, or just the IBJJF? GI doesn't do anything about those things either. Additionally, how does the IBJJF discourage weight cutting? You pick the weight you want to compete at, not them. It's up to you if you want to compete at a weight class that's close to your walk-around weight, or if you want to move down in order to be closer to the top of your weight division.
Yes it also bothers me that ADCC doesn't have any drug testing programme. Juicing isn't really a problem at Grappling Industries since the participants are primarily hobbyists, but if that changed then it would bother me there also. IBJJF is the only organisation i know of that weighs you in so close to the match, i can't think what other reason that is for other than to discourage weight cutting.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Yes it also bothers me that ADCC doesn't have any drug testing programme. Juicing isn't really a problem at Grappling Industries since the participants are primarily hobbyists, but if that changed then it would bother me there also. IBJJF is the only organisation i know of that weighs you in so close to the match, i can't think what other reason that is for other than to discourage weight cutting.
I would say that weighing in close to the match levels the playing field for all. Many people compete for fun and can't really commit the time to weight cutting around their daily lives and other responsibilities. I tell my team when they compete to cut out any extra crap in their diets the month before a comp and choose their weight the week before. I actually discourage my team from weight cutting apart from that. It's more important that they're hydrated and fed than trying to get some mystical advantage by being 1kg heavier than someone else.
My experience with AFBJJ comps (Australian version of IBJJF) is pretty much on par with Oleg's experience.
My experience with AFBJJ comps (Australian version of IBJJF) is pretty much on par with Oleg's experience.
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I would say that weighing in close to the match levels the playing field for all. Many people compete for fun and can't really commit the time to weight cutting around their daily lives and other responsibilities. I tell my team when they compete to cut out any extra crap in their diets the month before a comp and choose their weight the week before. I actually discourage my team from weight cutting apart from that. It's more important that they're hydrated and fed than trying to get some mystical advantage by being 1kg heavier than someone else. My experience with AFBJJ comps (Australian version of IBJJF) is pretty much on par with Oleg's experience.
My walk around weight is 160lbs and i eat a clean diet all year round. I don't see why i should compete against 170lbs people when it's so easy to get to 155lbs assuming i have a few hours to refuel afterwards. I don't consider it a level playing field, some people will naturally have a walk around weight near the top of a division, it's just genetic luck.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
yep sucks when others have better genetics than me!
Well, Vitamin S is a big equalizer in that regard :P
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Well, Vitamin S is a big equalizer in that regard :P
I've been actually considering going on HGH to help me with recovery. Hearing good things about low dosages on a 4 month rotation. Not sure if I will do it but considering it.
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I've been actually considering going on HGH to help me with recovery. Hearing good things about low dosages on a 4 month rotation. Not sure if I will do it but considering it.
Probably need a new thread for this subject, i'm not an expert, but from what i understand TRT would be a better option than HGH. If HGH makes everything grow, including your organs that'll end up indirectly killing you. It's not something i've ever dabbled in, but i know people that have so just trying to relay why they chose TRT over HGH. I haven't fact checked it, could be bro-science though.
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Probably need a new thread for this subject, i'm not an expert, but from what i understand TRT would be a better option than HGH. If HGH makes everything grow, including your organs that'll end up indirectly killing you. It's not something i've ever dabbled in, but i know people that have so just trying to relay why they chose TRT over HGH. I haven't fact checked it, could be bro-science though.
Gotta worry about your melon getting bigger too.

Black beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I personally prefer the Grappling Industries tourneys because at 6'3" and 46 years of age I walk around at around 235 every day of the week. I would be well over 250 or 260 without training. That said, the maximum weight before unlimited in GI is 230 - which is much better than 222 (or I think it used to even be 218) in IBJJF.
Other than that - its pretty cool when your team gets to take home one of these from a GI Tourney for winning. We beat 84 other teams for the one around Brad Souders' neck seen in this photo:
Other than that - its pretty cool when your team gets to take home one of these from a GI Tourney for winning. We beat 84 other teams for the one around Brad Souders' neck seen in this photo:



