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Thought on brown belts promoting students
6 year(s) ago • 45932 views • 135 replies
AKPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Did I just read that a blue belt tried to do a dojo storm!?
JBrown beltVerifiedDallas
5 year(s) ago
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a brown belt promoting a student to purple belt so long as they meet the same standard as any other purple belt and it’s legitimate. If the brown belt is legitimate, then the purple belt will be too and the brown belt has certainly earned the comprehension of what a purple belt is. If the student was with the brown belt for many years and took personal ownership over their promotional journey, that’s awesome.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
"In countries or regions where there are not enough black belts for the development of the sport, IBJJF will accept purple
belt and brown belt athletes to sign as instructors. Once the minimum number is reached, the use of instructor status will
be suspended. Brown belt instructors can only graduate athletes to purple belt and purple belt instructors can only graduate athletes
to blue belt."
belt and brown belt athletes to sign as instructors. Once the minimum number is reached, the use of instructor status will
be suspended. Brown belt instructors can only graduate athletes to purple belt and purple belt instructors can only graduate athletes
to blue belt."
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a brown belt promoting a student to purple belt so long as they meet the same standard as any other purple belt and it’s legitimate. If the brown belt is legitimate, then the purple belt will be too and the brown belt has certainly earned the comprehension of what a purple belt is. If the student was with the brown belt for many years and took personal ownership over their promotional journey, that’s awesome.
It is good that we have a brown belt to advise us on these matters.
MCBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
When I started we didn't have any black belts nearby, so we had to keep bringing them from Brazil for seminars/promotions.
BSBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
When I started bjj my instructors were purple belts. By the time I got promoted to blue they were brown belts (but I was promoted by the head of our association who is a black belt). I think it's fine, as previously stated by other posters, to have a non-black belt promote given certain circumstances.
JBrown beltVerifiedDallas
5 year(s) ago
It is good that we have a brown belt to advise us on these matters.
One day I hope to be as great as you William. But seriously, isn’t this suppose to be a discussion - you know, a meeting of the minds - the brotherhood and all that? I didn’t know it was entirely up to a set number of people at a certain rank?
DBBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I'm generally opposed to it when a viable alternative is available. I think the edge case situations have been discussed pretty thoroughly, but I think the common case really is that a brown belt shouldn't be doing promotions. Our black belt head instructor has told me he's comfortable with me doing promotions. I'm still not doing them. Instead I make recommendations for who should be watched more carefully because they seem ready and the black belts handle the actual promotions.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
One day I hope to be as great as you William. But seriously, isn’t this suppose to be a discussion - you know, a meeting of the minds - the brotherhood and all that? I didn’t know it was entirely up to a set number of people at a certain rank?
"There is absolutely nothing wrong with a brown belt promoting a student to purple belt so long as they meet the same standard as any other purple belt and it’s legitimate."
Typically, to be called a discussion, you know- a meeting of the minds- you would say "IN MY OPINION, there is absolutely nothing wrong....."
Just sayin....I thought it was funny that you framed it that way as well. A brown belt stating what every other brown belt should be allowed to do is ironic, ya know?
Typically, to be called a discussion, you know- a meeting of the minds- you would say "IN MY OPINION, there is absolutely nothing wrong....."
Just sayin....I thought it was funny that you framed it that way as well. A brown belt stating what every other brown belt should be allowed to do is ironic, ya know?
JBrown beltVerifiedDallas
5 year(s) ago
Again, I didn’t know there was a right way and a wrong way to phrase an opinion. It’s all opinion anyway right? When it boils down to it - maybe you yourself are dead wrong? Who knows.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Again, I didn’t know there was a right way and a wrong way to phrase an opinion. It’s all opinion anyway right? When it boils down to it - maybe you yourself are dead wrong? Who knows.
You didn't know there was a wrong way to phrase an opinion? Are you sticking with that?
JBrown beltVerifiedDallas
5 year(s) ago
You didn't know there was a wrong way to phrase an opinion? Are you sticking with that?
Yep. Sticking with it Joseph. Especially since you stopped there and didn’t include “it’s all opinion right?” Which is the point. You can CLEARLY understand what is being said. An opinion is based on the words and idea of the person with the opinion and however they say it is how it’s said - period. You just don’t like someone “under you” or “just” a brown belt to have such an opinion. Kind of making a big deal about the belts right? Which is exactly the point of the post.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Yep. Sticking with it Joseph. Especially since you stopped there and didn’t include “it’s all opinion right?” Which is the point. You can CLEARLY understand what is being said. An opinion is based on the words and idea of the person with the opinion and however they say it is how it’s said - period. You just don’t like someone “under you” or “just” a brown belt to have such an opinion. Kind of making a big deal about the belts right? Which is exactly the point of the post.
LOL! No, you got that last part part wrong. Barking up the wrong tree on that one.
I like that you called me "Joseph", btw. Makes me feel like I'm getting yelled at.
The first part. Let's see if I can explain this in a way you will actually understand since you didn't get it the first time I pointed it out.
Your phrasing is bad. Your use of language to express yourself is lacking the tact necessary to receive empathetic understanding. So let's relook at what you said and how you missed the mark, shall we? "There is absolutely nothing wrong with....." is not being phrased an opinion as you did not follow it up with "in my opinion". Which is easy to do these days as that's what IMO means. Most people even take it a step further and go "IMHO" which would mean "in my humble opinion". Your statement therefor is being phrased as something called a "fact". A "fact" is not an opinion. It would be the same if you said "I am the best brown belt in Dallas, TX" vs "IMHO I am the best brown belt in Dallas, TX".
See the difference there?
I like that you called me "Joseph", btw. Makes me feel like I'm getting yelled at.
The first part. Let's see if I can explain this in a way you will actually understand since you didn't get it the first time I pointed it out.
Your phrasing is bad. Your use of language to express yourself is lacking the tact necessary to receive empathetic understanding. So let's relook at what you said and how you missed the mark, shall we? "There is absolutely nothing wrong with....." is not being phrased an opinion as you did not follow it up with "in my opinion". Which is easy to do these days as that's what IMO means. Most people even take it a step further and go "IMHO" which would mean "in my humble opinion". Your statement therefor is being phrased as something called a "fact". A "fact" is not an opinion. It would be the same if you said "I am the best brown belt in Dallas, TX" vs "IMHO I am the best brown belt in Dallas, TX".
See the difference there?
JBrown beltVerifiedDallas
5 year(s) ago
LOL! No, you got that last part part wrong. Barking up the wrong tree on that one. I like that you called me 'Joseph', btw. Makes me feel like I'm getting yelled at. The first part. Let's see if I can explain this in a way you will actually understand since you didn't get it the first time I pointed it out. Your phrasing is bad. Your use of language to express yourself is lacking the tact necessary to receive empathetic understanding. So let's relook at what you said and how you missed the mark, shall we? 'There is absolutely nothing wrong with.....' is not being phrased an opinion as you did not follow it up with 'in my opinion'. Which is easy to do these days as that's what IMO means. Most people even take it a step further and go 'IMHO' which would mean 'in my humble opinion'. Your statement therefor is being phrased as something called a 'fact'. A 'fact' is not an opinion. It would be the same if you said 'I am the best brown belt in Dallas, TX' vs 'IMHO I am the best brown belt in Dallas, TX'. See the difference there?
It says your name is Joseph. Do you prefer professor or do you need me to call you something specific? And I’m not even going there with your thing about being the best brown belt in Dallas or anywhere else - I understand very clearly you aren’t saying that I said that and it’s just an example for what you are trying to say but I’m not the best or anything close to that and I don’t want it to even be questioned that I think that. I comprehend your point and we disagree - fair enough?
JBrown beltVerifiedDallas
5 year(s) ago
LOL! No, you got that last part part wrong. Barking up the wrong tree on that one. I like that you called me 'Joseph', btw. Makes me feel like I'm getting yelled at. The first part. Let's see if I can explain this in a way you will actually understand since you didn't get it the first time I pointed it out. Your phrasing is bad. Your use of language to express yourself is lacking the tact necessary to receive empathetic understanding. So let's relook at what you said and how you missed the mark, shall we? 'There is absolutely nothing wrong with.....' is not being phrased an opinion as you did not follow it up with 'in my opinion'. Which is easy to do these days as that's what IMO means. Most people even take it a step further and go 'IMHO' which would mean 'in my humble opinion'. Your statement therefor is being phrased as something called a 'fact'. A 'fact' is not an opinion. It would be the same if you said 'I am the best brown belt in Dallas, TX' vs 'IMHO I am the best brown belt in Dallas, TX'. See the difference there?
If I had jumped onto a post that wasn’t labeled “thoughts on brown belts promoting” then I would see your point but the opinion on the topic is implied in the question itself.
JBrown beltVerifiedDallas
5 year(s) ago
LOL! No, you got that last part part wrong. Barking up the wrong tree on that one. I like that you called me 'Joseph', btw. Makes me feel like I'm getting yelled at. The first part. Let's see if I can explain this in a way you will actually understand since you didn't get it the first time I pointed it out. Your phrasing is bad. Your use of language to express yourself is lacking the tact necessary to receive empathetic understanding. So let's relook at what you said and how you missed the mark, shall we? 'There is absolutely nothing wrong with.....' is not being phrased an opinion as you did not follow it up with 'in my opinion'. Which is easy to do these days as that's what IMO means. Most people even take it a step further and go 'IMHO' which would mean 'in my humble opinion'. Your statement therefor is being phrased as something called a 'fact'. A 'fact' is not an opinion. It would be the same if you said 'I am the best brown belt in Dallas, TX' vs 'IMHO I am the best brown belt in Dallas, TX'. See the difference there?
If I had jumped onto a post that wasn’t labeled “thoughts on brown belts promoting” then I would see your point but the opinion on the topic is implied in the question itself.
OHBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
some long time instructor and brown belts are no black belt only because they did not "paid a seminar with a brazilian for" .. think about it...why not giving a purple to their students in they deserve it in this case?
Edited 5 year(s) ago
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
If I had jumped onto a post that wasn’t labeled “thoughts on brown belts promoting” then I would see your point but the opinion on the topic is implied in the question itself.
Nope. You could very easily, at this point, simply say "Yeah, fair enough. IMO brown belts should be able to promote". Which I agree with you as I quoted the IBJJF's stance which they don't seem to care who am I to say differently? But your inability to simply admit it, say it, and move on is interesting.
JBrown beltVerifiedDallas
5 year(s) ago
Nope. You could very easily, at this point, simply say 'Yeah, fair enough. IMO brown belts should be able to promote'. Which I agree with you as I quoted the IBJJF's stance which they don't seem to care who am I to say differently? But your inability to simply admit it, say it, and move on is interesting.
It’s fair to say I don’t like you Joseph. I don’t care for your attitude or your presentation regardless. So let’s end this conversation now. Fair enough?
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
But seriously, isn’t this suppose to be a discussion - you know, a meeting of the minds - the brotherhood and all that? It’s fair to say I don’t like you Joseph. I don’t care for your attitude or your presentation regardless. So let’s end this conversation now. Fair enough?
This what is referred to as "passive-aggressive" or, in your case, "aggressive-passive". It's also a good example of cognitive dissonance. Which is always fun to point out and isolate when it's occurring. As for the not liking me part....I generally make sure that the people I don't want to like me have good reasons for it. I'm pretty okay with that.
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Woah brah...
ALBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Did I just read that a blue belt tried to do a dojo storm!?
Yes, you read that right, but he didn't just TRY to do a dojo storm, he actually went it, made a bunch of accusations of fraud, and Live video'd the entire ordeal on Facebook.
He subsequently got roasted by a lot of black belts for not only doing it, but also the way he did it, especially when it was clearly obvious there was no actual wrongdoing on the part of the club being stormed!
He subsequently got roasted by a lot of black belts for not only doing it, but also the way he did it, especially when it was clearly obvious there was no actual wrongdoing on the part of the club being stormed!
Edited 5 year(s) ago
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Yes, you read that right, but he didn't just TRY to do a dojo storm, he actually went it, made a bunch of accusations of fraud, and Live video'd the entire ordeal on Facebook. He subsequently got roasted by a lot of black belts for not only doing it, but also the way he did it, especially when it was clearly obvious there was no actual wrongdoing on the part of the club being stormed!
I have been belt checked by a lower belt than me from a "competing" gym. Happened when I first opened. I had zero issue with him doing that. I would go so far as to say I am friends with the guy at this point and he has his own gym under my "competitor".
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
One day I hope to be as great as you William. But seriously, isn’t this suppose to be a discussion - you know, a meeting of the minds - the brotherhood and all that? I didn’t know it was entirely up to a set number of people at a certain rank?
On the one hand belt ranks are silly.
On the other hand, a brown belt promoting other students without the permission and oversight of a black belt,
is not much different than a senior in a bachelor degree program awarding an associate's degree to someone.
If your supervising black belt has given you permission to award someone a belt, I do not see a problem with it whatsoever.
If someone is handing out belt ranks without the permission of an actual black belt, that puts the student being promoted in a bad spot, much like an unaccredited "college" awarding someone a degree.
Both the unaccredited college, and the student should not be surprised if outside parties point out that anyone with a printer may print a certificate, but without the signatures of people who are recognized to have the authority to sign such certificates with meaning, a certificate is just a piece of paper, much like anyone may buy a belt of any color from Amazon.com and tie it around their own waist.
On the other hand, belt ranks are indeed silly. Wrestlers, Boxers, and the Sambo community do just fine without them.
So, there is an argument that belt ranks are a silly tradition, that has not been constant in belt rank color or meaning, since the birth of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu
Who awarded the original Gracie Brothers red belts anyway?
Belt ranks in martial arts are only a century old tradition, that movies, newspapers, and comic books love as a trope, but don't really mean much except to keep one's jacket closed.
Likewise, wearing Japanese pajamas when one is not Japanese is an interesting fashion choice, and can be a little silly. Especially when they are often made in Pakistan, anyway.
Also, Korean style gardens are nicer than Japanese style gardens. And European style gardens are beautiful. I live in Florida, and there is an alligator in my pond, and an otter ate the turtles that were in it.
On the other hand, a brown belt promoting other students without the permission and oversight of a black belt,
is not much different than a senior in a bachelor degree program awarding an associate's degree to someone.
If your supervising black belt has given you permission to award someone a belt, I do not see a problem with it whatsoever.
If someone is handing out belt ranks without the permission of an actual black belt, that puts the student being promoted in a bad spot, much like an unaccredited "college" awarding someone a degree.
Both the unaccredited college, and the student should not be surprised if outside parties point out that anyone with a printer may print a certificate, but without the signatures of people who are recognized to have the authority to sign such certificates with meaning, a certificate is just a piece of paper, much like anyone may buy a belt of any color from Amazon.com and tie it around their own waist.
On the other hand, belt ranks are indeed silly. Wrestlers, Boxers, and the Sambo community do just fine without them.
So, there is an argument that belt ranks are a silly tradition, that has not been constant in belt rank color or meaning, since the birth of Gracie Jiu-Jitsu
Who awarded the original Gracie Brothers red belts anyway?
Belt ranks in martial arts are only a century old tradition, that movies, newspapers, and comic books love as a trope, but don't really mean much except to keep one's jacket closed.
Likewise, wearing Japanese pajamas when one is not Japanese is an interesting fashion choice, and can be a little silly. Especially when they are often made in Pakistan, anyway.
Also, Korean style gardens are nicer than Japanese style gardens. And European style gardens are beautiful. I live in Florida, and there is an alligator in my pond, and an otter ate the turtles that were in it.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Who awarded the original Gracie Brothers red belts anyway?
Who awarded them black belts? Even better question, IMO.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I live in Florida, and there is an alligator in my pond, and an otter ate the turtles that were in it.
I really wish that this had been it's own post so that we could make it the permanent "Best Forum Post This Week".
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Note to self NEVER engage in an argument with Joe or William. I agree with Joe as you don't deserve your belt if you aren't willing to get on the mat and be "tested" hell I expect to be tested EVERY time I step on the mats we teach sharks to bite better then the try to bite us.
You belt is only a good as the person who gave it to you and his opinion of your technique and grappling so I would rather have my belt from a Coral belt than a brown
You belt is only a good as the person who gave it to you and his opinion of your technique and grappling so I would rather have my belt from a Coral belt than a brown
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Note to self NEVER engage in an argument with Joe or William. I agree with Joe as you don't deserve your belt if you aren't willing to get on the mat and be 'tested' hell I expect to be tested EVERY time I step on the mats we teach sharks to bite better then the try to bite us. You belt is only a good as the person who gave it to you and his opinion of your technique and grappling so I would rather have my belt from a Coral belt than a brown
LOL! But we always agree and that's why you need to move here and come to my gym dude!
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
LOL! But we always agree and that's why you need to move here and come to my gym dude!
Now that I am in Lexington I will try and make the trip up
JBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
My coach has been promoting since white belt, but always in concert with his coach, who was a brown belt when they started. Now, both are black belts. Not everywhere is San Diego, LA, or NYC, where this is a black belt on every corner.
