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Concept-Based, Intuitive Teaching (Insanely Fast Progress)
6 year(s) ago • 21316 views • 105 replies
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
So, I'm teaching my significant other jiu-jitsu.
We train no-gi because I want her to use natural handles and not fabric. Also, I don't feel like washing kimonos every day.
She is a (former) professionally trained modern dancer, and long time yogi.
We've done 4 classes in 5 days so far.
I don't teach her anything but the most minimal technique. We just do a lot of isolated sparring, using only broad concepts.
The progress she makes is insane.
She has intuitively figured out the toreada / xpass, the leg drag and the knee cut.
She's only allowed one submission: mata leao. So all road lead to the back.
For standup we do greco grip fighting, which she also intuitively starts to use on the ground.
I think i will never teach the "normal" way again...
We train no-gi because I want her to use natural handles and not fabric. Also, I don't feel like washing kimonos every day.
She is a (former) professionally trained modern dancer, and long time yogi.
We've done 4 classes in 5 days so far.
I don't teach her anything but the most minimal technique. We just do a lot of isolated sparring, using only broad concepts.
The progress she makes is insane.
She has intuitively figured out the toreada / xpass, the leg drag and the knee cut.
She's only allowed one submission: mata leao. So all road lead to the back.
For standup we do greco grip fighting, which she also intuitively starts to use on the ground.
I think i will never teach the "normal" way again...
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
So you are saying that... BJJ ... should be taught and trained... like a SPORT?!? :o :o:o
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
There wasn't a standing self defense wristlock in sight!...
So, yeah.
Btw Jorgen your guardpassing video was a great insight...
So, yeah.
Btw Jorgen your guardpassing video was a great insight...
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Btw Jorgen your guardpassing video was a great insight...
I think this video hasn't gotten the credit and attention it deserves :) But it connects nicely with Chris Paines' guardpassing class from Heidelberg last year (but I think it wasn't filmed :( ) . So Open guard and passing is best approached like PUMMELING in wrestling. However what makes it very much different from wrestling is that the positions and goals of top vs bottom are ASYMMETRICAL.
/rides out on his high horse
/rides out on his high horse
DBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
It's the best way to teach and learn but does not necessarily scale in a class with lots of different types of students. The value of sparring with someone who is teaching you concepts and correcting you along the way is great, but that's more like a private lesson.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I don't agree, people (adults) will make huge strides when presented with - here's the problem to solve, solve it if the problem is framed as simple enough (with a varying degree of additional information or ideas).
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Exactly, Deepu...
This type of teaching requires one skilled practicioner and one beginner, and is extremely hands-on.
I couldn't teach this way to a class of 20 people, unless I'd be able to make decent match-ups.
My biggest takeaway is that every aspect of jiujitsu needs to be trained like wrestling. Little isolated games that fit in the whole.
This type of teaching requires one skilled practicioner and one beginner, and is extremely hands-on.
I couldn't teach this way to a class of 20 people, unless I'd be able to make decent match-ups.
My biggest takeaway is that every aspect of jiujitsu needs to be trained like wrestling. Little isolated games that fit in the whole.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
every aspect of jiujitsu needs to be trained like wrestling
Don't give wrestling coaches too much credit :) A whole lot of them are doing it way more backwards than many BJJ coaches.
As I always say - combat sports are too fringe to have sparked extensive research into what works best. So I'd rather look into pedagogy of soccer and tennis :)
As I always say - combat sports are too fringe to have sparked extensive research into what works best. So I'd rather look into pedagogy of soccer and tennis :)
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Passionate concept-based jiujitero checking in.
DBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Exactly, Deepu... This type of teaching requires one skilled practicioner and one beginner, and is extremely hands-on. I couldn't teach this way to a class of 20 people, unless I'd be able to make decent match-ups. My biggest takeaway is that every aspect of jiujitsu needs to be trained like wrestling. Little isolated games that fit in the whole.
Making the match ups is key and not done enough when it comes to sparring. Taking the time to pair up sparring partners is great but time consuming and lots of students dislike it. Nobody wants to roll with that spazzy white belt.
DBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I don't agree, people (adults) will make huge strides when presented with - here's the problem to solve, solve it if the problem is framed as simple enough (with a varying degree of additional information or ideas).
Perhaps. But what about 2 adult whitebelts paired up during sparring? How does one make them work on concepts vs just trying to beat the shit out of each other?
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
The more isolated is the concept or the game you are working on, the less matters whatever difference in experience there is between the partners. In my opinion if you combine conceptual approach to the idea of starting from the end point of the technique, you get an extremely scalable way of teaching where you can almost ignore how many people are in the class and how they pair up.
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
mr. Fonte.
I think it might still be tricky to teach a noob class like this. Because noobs need constant correct feedback. If you have 30 of them spazzing around (and just one instructor) it'll be hard to control the action.
It might work better to match up advanced with noob, so that the advanced can intervene as soon as noob goes off the rails.
I think it might still be tricky to teach a noob class like this. Because noobs need constant correct feedback. If you have 30 of them spazzing around (and just one instructor) it'll be hard to control the action.
It might work better to match up advanced with noob, so that the advanced can intervene as soon as noob goes off the rails.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
BWBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I think this video hasn't gotten the credit and attention it deserves :)
Is there a link to this video?
You've got me curious ;)
You've got me curious ;)
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
JABlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Mr Matsi in action... https://youtu.be/d4-bgJOR7nI
Thanks. I will have to watch this. Appreciate it.
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
The renegade guard passing video plus the video from Chris at the Globetrotters camp is a great combo for studying conceptual approach to guard passing.
@Daniel
I don't mind letting them spaz a bit. It's what white belts do and I think they should go through that, to a certain degree. On the opposite side of the spectrum I don't mind if the more advanced people on the mat go out of topic during the exercise when they find something they feel like exploring. But here's me the one going off topic.
I very rarely pair people up for techniques or drilling. My reasoning is that if the situation they have to work on starts from a focused enough point, the difference in skills become significantly smaller and everyone can work with pretty much anyone. Example, let's say we are working arm bars. I love them arm bars. I would start with the person on the bottom already with the arm caught and extended. I would explain orientation of the defense (hitchhike one direction or the other to "free" the movement of the elbow, body organization and pretty much that's it). Then I would let them "play" to get out of it. Clearly the top guy is already in a ideal situation to tap the bottom guy so even an advanced can have a good training of the late escape, even if the partner is a beginner, because the situation is already unbalanced in favor of the top guy. Similar situations can be builded for guard passing ans whatsoever else.
Of course it's a bit deeper than this but I hope I gave a decent idea. Not a big fan of lenghty word descriptions of physical activities.
@Daniel
I don't mind letting them spaz a bit. It's what white belts do and I think they should go through that, to a certain degree. On the opposite side of the spectrum I don't mind if the more advanced people on the mat go out of topic during the exercise when they find something they feel like exploring. But here's me the one going off topic.
I very rarely pair people up for techniques or drilling. My reasoning is that if the situation they have to work on starts from a focused enough point, the difference in skills become significantly smaller and everyone can work with pretty much anyone. Example, let's say we are working arm bars. I love them arm bars. I would start with the person on the bottom already with the arm caught and extended. I would explain orientation of the defense (hitchhike one direction or the other to "free" the movement of the elbow, body organization and pretty much that's it). Then I would let them "play" to get out of it. Clearly the top guy is already in a ideal situation to tap the bottom guy so even an advanced can have a good training of the late escape, even if the partner is a beginner, because the situation is already unbalanced in favor of the top guy. Similar situations can be builded for guard passing ans whatsoever else.
Of course it's a bit deeper than this but I hope I gave a decent idea. Not a big fan of lenghty word descriptions of physical activities.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
You don't let them free spar. You as a coach design the situations with it's constraints, handicaps and reinforcers. If it ends up as 2 whitebelts spazzing then you adjust your sliders.
That's your job, your playground. You're the puppetmaster, have fun with it :) I certainly do.
I wanted to bring up a specific example but then realised it's gonna be more useful if I chime in on your examples/questions.
That's your job, your playground. You're the puppetmaster, have fun with it :) I certainly do.
I wanted to bring up a specific example but then realised it's gonna be more useful if I chime in on your examples/questions.
DBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Mr Matsi in action... https://youtu.be/d4-bgJOR7nI
Excellent video. Also Mr Matsi looks way younger on video than in his profile pic!
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
You don't let them free spar.
No I don’t. Sparring is a different thing, I’m talking conceptual class :)
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
My point is, that I don't trust white belts to take it easy and stick to a drill involving isolated sparring. They tend to go full Sparta without adult supervision. And it's hard to keep an eye on all of them, flopping around like a bunch of raging toddlers.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
So, I'm teaching my significant other jiu-jitsu. We train no-gi because I want her to use natural handles and not fabric. Also, I don't feel like washing kimonos every day. She is a (former) professionally trained modern dancer, and long time yogi. We've done 4 classes in 5 days so far. I don't teach her anything but the most minimal technique. We just do a lot of isolated sparring, using only broad concepts. The progress she makes is insane. She has intuitively figured out the toreada / xpass, the leg drag and the knee cut. She's only allowed one submission: mata leao. So all road lead to the back. For standup we do greco grip fighting, which she also intuitively starts to use on the ground. I think i will never teach the 'normal' way again...
Training as a dancer was probably a big help.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
No I don’t. Sparring is a different thing, I’m talking conceptual class :)
Yup yup, my reply was directed to Deepu.
What I like to use a lot is I emphasize learning as shared success.
E.g. beginners drilling (with resistance) a triangle I explicitly say - if bottom gets less than 6 triangles in 3 minutes then you suck as a training partner giving too much resistance and not enough guidance.
Measuring resistance in percentage is not optimal because it's so subjective. However clearly defined success criteria is easy to measure and both drilling partners are responsible for meeting the criteria. That's what differentiates resistance drills from positional sparring. In sparring both sides have mutually exclusive goals so in the same moment both can't succeed.
In drilling there's the objective for one person to do a specific thing with correct timing against appropriate resistance that facilitates learning. And the success is shared and returned!
What I like to use a lot is I emphasize learning as shared success.
E.g. beginners drilling (with resistance) a triangle I explicitly say - if bottom gets less than 6 triangles in 3 minutes then you suck as a training partner giving too much resistance and not enough guidance.
Measuring resistance in percentage is not optimal because it's so subjective. However clearly defined success criteria is easy to measure and both drilling partners are responsible for meeting the criteria. That's what differentiates resistance drills from positional sparring. In sparring both sides have mutually exclusive goals so in the same moment both can't succeed.
In drilling there's the objective for one person to do a specific thing with correct timing against appropriate resistance that facilitates learning. And the success is shared and returned!
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Training as a dancer was probably a big help.
Yes! She told me it was quite similar to contact improvisation. Minus the violence.
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
My point is, that I don't trust white belts to take it easy and stick to a drill involving isolated sparring. They tend to go full Sparta without adult supervision. And it's hard to keep an eye on all of them, flopping around like a bunch of raging toddlers.
This.
But I must admit it’s fun sometimes to watch toddlers do their stupid things if they’re not hurting themselves.
But I must admit it’s fun sometimes to watch toddlers do their stupid things if they’re not hurting themselves.
BWBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Interesting concepts you've pointed out in the video Jorgen, do you have a video that shows the drill in action or of leg pummelling from the bottom?
SZBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Bottom line is, it’s proven once again that white belts are toddlers who didn’t earn a name.
![Slideyfoot [jun]](userimg/5e25cf311adfd.jpg){kind=small}
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Mr Matsi in action... https://youtu.be/d4-bgJOR7nI
Awesome, thanks! I've been pulling a lot from Chris P's aforementioned guard passing vid (though admittedly the guard retention half, the second part is tough to do without a partner), so I shall have to check this out. :D
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Interesting concepts you've pointed out in the video Jorgen, do you have a video that shows the drill in action or of leg pummelling from the bottom?
What do you mean Benny? Like the stuff that open guard bottom should do? I think Priit Mihkelson's grilled chicken stuff is good for that and obviously this: https://youtu.be/30zorHlWCUY
