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Purple belts promoting blue belts, thoughts?

6 year(s) ago • 19345 views • 121 replies

Jorgen Matsi
Jorgen Matsi
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified1806 forum posts18310/1000
6 year(s) ago
A convenient way to explain why a white belt can win the world championship?
Has Barnett ever tried to become a Brazilian Jiu jitsu world champion?

Anyway... As I said, instructors opinions differ - Jon Jones is still a blue belt AFAIK.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Jason Demelas
Jason Demelas
Black beltVerified67 forum posts5525/1000
6 year(s) ago
I think it’s fine under the guidance and approval of a black belt. This is an interesting topic as it was unheard of 10 years ago.

Nobody owns bjj and I get the whole “dont want people that don’t roll with me to be the ones that have to promote me” idea cool, whatever....

Maybe I’m just from an old school generation where you were blessed to find a school that you “clicked” with, where everybody felt like family and pain in the ass students were simply asked to leave.

It was taboo to even talk about your belt or even about being promoted...

I get it.. there are prodigies in this world. You smash everybody in your rank and even get your hands on some of the higher ranks super cool congratulations.

There is a thing called putting time in. Riding the grind. Inside your mind you’re a raging lunatic starving for more blood in the competition world but other forces like a silly pecking order and tradition are slowing your personal goals

I find it disrespectful to those that have put in their time to simply promote based off just talent.

Jitz is more than mat skill. Those are the lessons you will miss if you just storm the ranks because you can kick a$$

Just my opinion
Alexander King-Zhang
Alexander King-Zhang
Purple beltVerified661 forum posts2020/400
6 year(s) ago
Has Barnett ever tried to become a Brazilian Jiu jitsu world champion? Anyway... As I said, instructors opinions differ - Jon Jones is still a blue belt AFAIK.
Josh won the World Jiu-Jitsu No-Gi Championship in 2009. Jones is a puple belt now but was a blue belt when he became UFC champion. Israel Adesanya is a blue belt and most UFC champions are not BJJ black belts at the moment. Weili Zhang is purple belt...
Sean Brandle
Sean Brandle
Black belt 1st degreeVerified236 forum posts1320/1000
6 year(s) ago
No-Gi should be no-go grappling and not Jiu-Jitsu. Jiu-Jitsu is in the gi IMO. Even in a gi, rank doesn't guarantee the outcome. I have a training partner that was a D1 wrestler a few years ago. Not only is he in his mid-twenties, athletic, strong, and understands grappling better than I ever will, but he retains everything we teach him the first time. He still took 9 months or so to get his blue belt. When I survive 5 minutes with him or very occasionally catch him it's because I'm been on the mats for more than a decade. I'm 51 and he is 27. It isn't winning that confers rank. Winning confers trophies. It is the collecting and understanding technique and then building a personalized game from those techniques that confer rank. That is the nearly universal standard in Jiu-Jitsu.

Josh was given a black belt to compete in an event, not as a result of his time and efforts in the gi, as I recall. Sort of a bullshit move on the one hand, but there were far fewer tournaments back then and it was the only way to see various people get to roll against one another.
Erin Wedekind
Erin Wedekind
Purple beltVerified11 forum posts1050/400
6 year(s) ago
I don't understand why anyone would charge a fee to promote someone. That sounds sketchy to me. I don't get paid to teach bjj and do it for free at a teammates academy. I like to do all promotions unless one of the other Blkblts want to do it. I don't have a problem with lower belts doing promotions with the ok from a blk blt who know them. I would not green light anyone to promote someone I haven't been on the mat with. Of course, I don't care what happens outside our team. Everyone can do what they like. If belts do not mean anything then why be a member on a site that is based on belts? Kind of odd isn't it? Lol
I'm here because the site has a non-anonymous forum. The rest have people posting under user names, which invariably results in a train wreck.
Jason Demelas
Jason Demelas
Black beltVerified67 forum posts5525/1000
6 year(s) ago
The belts are important, people say they are not. But we are creatures of ceremony and celebration! We love to call everything a holiday and designate days of the year for celebrating whatever important event that took place in our history. The symbols of our training journeys are our belts, recognition and appreciation from our teachers and instructors for the hard work we put in to acquiring them. We all like to be appreciated, in everything we do.. it’s all about perspective.

Handing somebody a belt of any rank is a momentous occasion that is worthy of celebration.. the stripes build anticipation and usually refresh a practitioners drive to keep doing better.

For the robots that “say” they don’t care, actually they really do, they are just simply interested in other “symbols” of their success like trophies, medals, glory etc etc.

Circling back to perspective. Anybody that has put in some real time in their training and has been around the instructors that brought this sport to us here in the states can attest... belts are earned PERIOD! Not just on the mats but off the mats more importantly...

don’t care how great you are on the mats, if you’re a jack hole and a POS of a person it’s all for nothing. Humility, patience, understanding are the lessons that we can use for everything in life that will continue to pay in dividends for the rest of your life.

But if you want to be old with a pile of medals and trophies and no friends or family that don’t care about your glory days as a jitz practitioner then by all means send me your address and I’ll mail you a black belt

That belt will be as meaningless as all the valuable lessons you missed on your climb to the top....


good night friends ...

Alexander King-Zhang
Alexander King-Zhang
Purple beltVerified661 forum posts2020/400
6 year(s) ago
The belts are important, people say they are not. But we are creatures of ceremony and celebration! We love to call everything a holiday and designate days of the year for celebrating whatever important event that took place in our history. The symbols of our training journeys are our belts, recognition and appreciation from our teachers and instructors for the hard work we put in to acquiring them. We all like to be appreciated, in everything we do.. it’s all about perspective. Handing somebody a belt of any rank is a momentous occasion that is worthy of celebration.. the stripes build anticipation and usually refresh a practitioners drive to keep doing better. For the robots that “say” they don’t care, actually they really do, they are just simply interested in other “symbols” of their success like trophies, medals, glory etc etc. Circling back to perspective. Anybody that has put in some real time in their training and has been around the instructors that brought this sport to us here in the states can attest... belts are earned PERIOD! Not just on the mats but off the mats more importantly... don’t care how great you are on the mats, if you’re a jack hole and a POS of a person it’s all for nothing. Humility, patience, understanding are the lessons that we can use for everything in life that will continue to pay in dividends for the rest of your life. But if you want to be old with a pile of medals and trophies and no friends or family that don’t care about your glory days as a jitz practitioner then by all means send me your address and I’ll mail you a black belt That belt will be as meaningless as all the valuable lessons you missed on your climb to the top.... good night friends ...
Are you trying to suggest that your martial arts belt has a correlation with how much of a good person you are?
Erin Wedekind
Erin Wedekind
Purple beltVerified11 forum posts1050/400
6 year(s) ago
I don't understand why anyone would charge a fee to promote someone. That sounds sketchy to me. I don't get paid to teach bjj and do it for free at a teammates academy. I like to do all promotions unless one of the other Blkblts want to do it. I don't have a problem with lower belts doing promotions with the ok from a blk blt who know them. I would not green light anyone to promote someone I haven't been on the mat with. Of course, I don't care what happens outside our team. Everyone can do what they like. If belts do not mean anything then why be a member on a site that is based on belts? Kind of odd isn't it? Lol
I'm here because the site has a non-anonymous forum. The rest have people posting under user names, which invariably results in a train wreck.
Steven Zoll
Steven Zoll
Black belt 1st degreeVerified648 forum posts10680/1000
6 year(s) ago
Are you trying to suggest that your martial arts belt has a correlation with how much of a good person you are?
Personally, I believe it is. I wouldn't want someone that was a complete ass representing me regardless of their skill level.
Jason Demelas
Jason Demelas
Black beltVerified67 forum posts5525/1000
6 year(s) ago
Are you trying to suggest that your martial arts belt has a correlation with how much of a good person you are?
Martial arts definitely help shape the mind which yes, absolutely can help you become a better person..... I grew up in the shit ghetto of Las Vegas, no guidance from a father figure, no parental person to demonstrate how to conduct myself as a civilian, so I was a monster running around reacting to my environment on raw emotion and selfish driven thought processes.

Martial arts showed me, how not to be selfish, to care about others well being. Master Ricardo showed me what it was like to know somebody out here gave a damn. It was inspiring to say the least. Cleaning mats to help offset the cost of tuition helped me understand the value of hard work. Allowing me that opportunity to work off tuition taught me compassion for others situations and humility.... oh yeah and along with all of those little useless lessons, I learned how to choke the shit out of people . The combat skills learned were the “extra” I got out of all my training.

I wasn’t raised with 2 good parents, a spoiled little brat that my parents kept dropping me into different programs because they thought that it looked cool to post on social media

I know what struggle is! And Martial arts and this grappling community gave me real men to look up to that assisted with helping me “want” to be a better person. And showed me how men conduct themselves

So yes , hearing tantrums about not getting to compete at higher levels is the peak of someone’s problems then boo hoo!
Jason Demelas
Jason Demelas
Black beltVerified67 forum posts5525/1000
6 year(s) ago
I live my life as a black belt human being!

I don’t just have a black belt

I AM a black belt

I spend more time on the streets dealing with the world than I do with dealing with competitors, so tell me, where is it more important for me to conduct myself as a respectable man ?
Alexander King-Zhang
Alexander King-Zhang
Purple beltVerified661 forum posts2020/400
6 year(s) ago
I live my life as a black belt human being! I don’t just have a black belt I AM a black belt I spend more time on the streets dealing with the world than I do with dealing with competitors, so tell me, where is it more important for me to conduct myself as a respectable man ?
Right but I'm not asking about you specifically, I'm asking about whether you believe there's a correlation overall? And if so, how strong do you think that correlation is, as in weak (~0.3), high (~0.6) or almost perfect (~0.9)?
Alexander King-Zhang
Alexander King-Zhang
Purple beltVerified661 forum posts2020/400
6 year(s) ago
Personally, I believe it is. I wouldn't want someone that was a complete ass representing me regardless of their skill level.
For a correlation to exist it requires both those at the top to be more moral and those at the bottom to be less moral. Do I really need to explain why that's ridiculous?
Steven Zoll
Steven Zoll
Black belt 1st degreeVerified648 forum posts10680/1000
6 year(s) ago
For a correlation to exist it requires both those at the top to be more moral and those at the bottom to be less moral. Do I really need to explain why that's ridiculous?
Your question was "Are you trying to suggest that your martial arts belt has a correlation with how much of a good person you are?". You used the words "you" and "your". I do not compare my BJJ journey to anyone else's. I believe that I have grown (for the better) as a person, student, and coach as I have progressed through the ranks.
Steven Zoll
Steven Zoll
Black belt 1st degreeVerified648 forum posts10680/1000
6 year(s) ago
And just to be clear, I have no issue with a Purple Belt promoting to Blue Belt with a Black Belt's approval.
Alexander King-Zhang
Alexander King-Zhang
Purple beltVerified661 forum posts2020/400
6 year(s) ago
Your question was 'Are you trying to suggest that your martial arts belt has a correlation with how much of a good person you are?'. You used the words 'you' and 'your'. I do not compare my BJJ journey to anyone else's. I believe that I have grown (for the better) as a person, student, and coach as I have progressed through the ranks.
Ok I get what you mean, bit of a mix up with the words because a correlation would have to at a group level but I get what you are saying
Dave Cork
Dave Cork
Black beltVerified235 forum posts2250/1000
6 year(s) ago
This has come up in another forum I'm sure.
I follow a basic guide that was told to me by my friend and coach which is '2 ranks below you'. Essentially the 2 tab rule for black belts but at every rank:

White: shut up and listen
Blue: shut up and drill more
Purple: qualified to tab on White
Brown: qualified to award Blue
Black: qualified to award Purple
1st degree: qualified to award Brown
2nd degree: qualified to award Black

However, my coach backed me when I started my club as a Blue and gave me the thumbs up to award stripes on Whites and he'd stand by them without question. He said I was a very high standard blue belt and I had experience teaching from White.
Now that he's promoted me to Purple I suppose that doesn't matter but it's comforting to have still. Personally I wouldn't dream of promoting anyone to Blue now as a Purple even though the IBJJF says I can. I would seek the OK of my friend and coach and as an extention John Will himself.
Do I have a problem with others doing it, no, if you are confident to tie a blue around someone's waist and back it kudos to you bro, I still leave that to those more qualified than myself.
Daniël Bertina
Daniël Bertina
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified881 forum posts15785/1000
6 year(s) ago
Is this really necessary in the year 2020 common era?

This is no longer no mans land with no black belts in a 200km radius.

Why not invite the head black belt over for a roll & promotion get-together with a barbecue, some beers & occasional porrada? Make it jolly & memorable for all.

In the year our Lord 2020, purple belts promoting blues is like 15 year olds giving life advice to toddlers.

I have said my peace & counted to 10.

You do you, mane.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Bobby McMasters
Bobby McMasters
Black belt 1st degreeVerified1275 forum posts13490/1000
6 year(s) ago
Is this really necessary in the year 2020 common era? This is no longer no mans land with no black belts in a 200km radius. Why not invite the head black belt over for a roll & promotion get-together with a barbecue, some beers & occasional porrada? Make it jolly & memorable for all. In the year our Lord 2020, purple belts promoting blues is like 15 year olds giving life advice to toddlers. I have said my peace & counted to 10. You do you, mane.
I think that what the issue is with many non-BB gym owners isn't that there isn't a BB within a 200km radius, but that there are usually several layers of strings attached, at least to some degree, when one commits to ongoing promotions at his/her gym.

Aside from the predictable financial commitment, many of these black belts require some degree of loyalty to their affiliation whether it be in the form of uniform codes, patches and/or further financial obligations. It makes BJJ start to look like some sort of pyramid scheme or something.
Brad Neumyer
Brad Neumyer
Purple beltVerified128 forum posts1515/400
6 year(s) ago
Aside from the predictable financial commitment, many of these black belts require some degree of loyalty to their affiliation whether it be in the form of uniform codes, patches and/or further financial obligations. It makes BJJ start to look like some sort of pyramid scheme or something.
+++++++++++++++++++++ thank you for saying that, agreed.
Alexander King-Zhang
Alexander King-Zhang
Purple beltVerified661 forum posts2020/400
6 year(s) ago
Is this really necessary in the year 2020 common era? This is no longer no mans land with no black belts in a 200km radius. Why not invite the head black belt over for a roll & promotion get-together with a barbecue, some beers & occasional porrada? Make it jolly & memorable for all. In the year our Lord 2020, purple belts promoting blues is like 15 year olds giving life advice to toddlers. I have said my peace & counted to 10. You do you, mane.
Really, you can't think of one reason why in 2020 we aren't having get-togethers, barbecue and rolls with strangers? Not one reason springs to mind?

Hope you don't dish out life advice containing that level of logic.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Alexander King-Zhang
Alexander King-Zhang
Purple beltVerified661 forum posts2020/400
6 year(s) ago
Giving life advice? We have white belts for that.
Again, you show your complete lack of logic. Do you not understand that most people are doing BJJ as a hobby and many lower belts have very successful careers that just aren't related to BJJ? You honestly come across as someone who implicitly thinks that belt rank corresponds to all aspects of life.
Christian Graugart
Christian GraugartOP
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4348 forum posts40350/1000
6 year(s) ago
I think that what the issue is with many non-BB gym owners isn't that there isn't a BB within a 200km radius, but that there are usually several layers of strings attached, at least to some degree, when one commits to ongoing promotions at his/her gym. Aside from the predictable financial commitment, many of these black belts require some degree of loyalty to their affiliation whether it be in the form of uniform codes, patches and/or further financial obligations. It makes BJJ start to look like some sort of pyramid scheme or something.
This. I turned down a lot of promotion offers from black belts when I was a purple belt running my very successful academy. It simply always came with too many expectations and I didn't want to build a relationship based on that.
Daniël Bertina
Daniël Bertina
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified881 forum posts15785/1000
6 year(s) ago
Again, you show your complete lack of logic. Do you not understand that most people are doing BJJ as a hobby and many lower belts have very successful careers that just aren't related to BJJ? You honestly come across as someone who implicitly thinks that belt rank corresponds to all aspects of life.
Again, you show your complete lack of humor.

A good day to you, sir.
Miguel Pagan
Miguel Pagan
Brown beltVerified7 forum posts1745/700
6 year(s) ago
The belts are important, people say they are not. But we are creatures of ceremony and celebration! We love to call everything a holiday and designate days of the year for celebrating whatever important event that took place in our history. The symbols of our training journeys are our belts, recognition and appreciation from our teachers and instructors for the hard work we put in to acquiring them. We all like to be appreciated, in everything we do.. it’s all about perspective. Handing somebody a belt of any rank is a momentous occasion that is worthy of celebration.. the stripes build anticipation and usually refresh a practitioners drive to keep doing better. For the robots that “say” they don’t care, actually they really do, they are just simply interested in other “symbols” of their success like trophies, medals, glory etc etc. Circling back to perspective. Anybody that has put in some real time in their training and has been around the instructors that brought this sport to us here in the states can attest... belts are earned PERIOD! Not just on the mats but off the mats more importantly... don’t care how great you are on the mats, if you’re a jack hole and a POS of a person it’s all for nothing. Humility, patience, understanding are the lessons that we can use for everything in life that will continue to pay in dividends for the rest of your life. But if you want to be old with a pile of medals and trophies and no friends or family that don’t care about your glory days as a jitz practitioner then by all means send me your address and I’ll mail you a black belt That belt will be as meaningless as all the valuable lessons you missed on your climb to the top.... good night friends ...
OMG that was perfectly said
Francesco Fonte
Francesco Fonte
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified497 forum posts9800/1000
6 year(s) ago
Team "in the year 2020 there are enough black belts around to have one of them promoting you" here.

Alex you seem to take it a lot personally and it's very understandable but please understand this. I'm not debating your own personal promotion, I wrote already that I'm sure you earned that belt. But should a purple belt promoting to blue belt become an acceptable generalized standard? Hell no if you ask me (and being all together in a forum pretty much means you're asking everybody's opinion). It's two different points you see, your promotion / standard promotion.

A bit of debate around a promotion here or there is a healthy thing and will avoid, in my opinion, to have at some point somebody promoting himself and then getting verified by the herd of OSS SEEMZ LEGIT.

If the problem of having a black belt around for promotions is affiliation fees, seminars, paying for tests and so on, guess what. It's plenty of black belts around who are extremely knowledgeable and will not ask you neither for affiliation fees or extra money for the belt. I hate that, I always did, I refused more than one offer to receive my black belt paying extra or affiliating, and long term was the right choice. There's Globetrotters for that too, right? :)

For the rest, I'm very much in line with what Jason Demelas wrote and to answer another question of Alex yes, my martial journey has a lot to do with the person I grew up to be. People met, places seen, experiences done, lessons learned.

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