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Purple belts promoting blue belts, thoughts?
6 year(s) ago • 19349 views • 121 replies
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I have ultimately concluded that whatever little meaning I would put in stripes myself or how silly I think they are, that doesn't change the fact that it can be a huge motivational factor for my students. For many, it can be the difference between sticking with Jiu Jitsu or not—or even their level of self confidence / self worth—and I respect that.
Black beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
to me a purple belt is someone who can really pressure you with non stopped chained attacks from every position be it simply passing or submission attempts. Just flat out overwhelm you with knowledge and experience from everywhere. [...] A purple belt in my opinion should have an amazing A game and a really good B game already developed and not have any glaring weaknesses.
Whoa.. you hold us to a high standard. :D
In a competitive setting against people approx. my level, I have one very good guard pass, another adequate one, two types of guard from where I have a decent change of sweeping (if I can get to them), one simple okayish takedown & basically zero submission game from bottom.
This appears to be enough to be #2 in my weight class at a national level however. (I would argue that Finland doesn't have particularly bad jiu-jitsu in general either.)
But it's a whole 'nother story rolling with lower belts at the gym. :)
In a competitive setting against people approx. my level, I have one very good guard pass, another adequate one, two types of guard from where I have a decent change of sweeping (if I can get to them), one simple okayish takedown & basically zero submission game from bottom.
This appears to be enough to be #2 in my weight class at a national level however. (I would argue that Finland doesn't have particularly bad jiu-jitsu in general either.)
But it's a whole 'nother story rolling with lower belts at the gym. :)
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Whoa.. you hold us to a high standard. :D
Ha - yeah, I can't say I'm too worried about standards white belts conjure up for higher belts. I pay attention to the standards black belts set, as they are the ones giving out rank. ;)
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Ha - yeah, I can't say I'm too worried about standards white belts conjure up for higher belts. I pay attention to the standards black belts set, as they are the ones giving out rank. ;)
But it's a very competitive whitebelt Can! A competitive whitebelt who has an easy time beating blue belts.
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I feel like if your going to do stripes they should mean something and not just be attendance based or well its another promotion day but your not ready for your next belt so here's a stripe. Not in any order: Stripe #1: Ability to survive. Escapes/Reversals/Movement Stripe #2: Ability not to get guard passed (Guard Retention) & ability to sweep opponents removing their posts. Distance/Space management. Able to Manipulate Opponent with strategy. Stripe #3: Ability to pass guard and not get swept. Having good balance and post awareness. Comfortable in neutral and 1/2 guard positions. Stripe #4: Ability to control your opponents. Maintaining and transitioning through positions while going for submissions and able to start chaining controlled methodical submission attempts together. Being promoted to Blue Belt: - Having a Plan A & B from every position. - Being able to be calm and relaxed and not stressed in any position. - Being able to easily manage a larger/stronger opponent with less experience. - Know how to transition to any position near the current position like a video game controller. Forward, Backwards, Left, Right etc., while still understanding the need to either create or remove space, being aware of your posts and posture while controlling your opponents. Overhook/Underhook crossface awareness. - The general ability to flow with your opponents with no need to try and win every roll and be able to learn something from any roll by either letting the other person work or understanding what you need to focus on to get better. Improving your weaknesses as your opponents most likely will take the path of least resistance.
I'd be a one stripe white belt then. I think having the 'unpassable guard' is a valid strategy for some, but not all. The only times i've been in guard in matches are when i've picked up a guillotine standing and pulled guard to try and finish it, i wanted a rest because i was tired, up on points and felt like stalling or because i reversed a position into it. It's not like having your guard passed is a death sentence, even at the UFC level. Derrick Lewis is a BJJ blue belt and not an ex-wrestler, take a look at him in bottom side control, dude just stands up! It's actually pretty hard to pin someone in side control, if it was easy then wrestling matches wouldn't last very long. I appreciate that playing guard in training will to some extent make you a better guard passer, and I do. But let's not pretend goal keepers are the best penalty takers in football because they understand the flip side of things better.
We have a competition checklist for white belts White Belt:
- Minimum 1 high percentage escape from closed guard, mount, side control, rear mount
- a high percentage triangle and armbar escape
- guillotine defence
- 2 high percentage submissions from side control and mount
- 1 sweep from guard
- a decent rear naked choke
- 3 takedowns
Once they have that, throw yourself into competition and the mats don't lie. I first competed 4 months after starting BJJ, to be precise the competition was the third time i wore a Gi. I don't think people should be prescriptive about how you get your wins and if you're winning, then you're on your way to blue. I realise that sounds like blasphemy to some people, but i have 4 counters:
1. I think it's very limiting for white belts to decide they are going to do a particular style, they simply don't know enough about the options to make that choice
2. Linked to the point above, it's limiting for white belts to think they are immediately good at something because they have quick success with it at white belt level
3. There are patterns of neglected techniques becoming more effective as they get neglected from training (e.g. leg locks).
4. With such rigidity, you wouldn't have people in BJJ like Gilbert Burns who is frankly BJJ's best chance of having a UFC Champion anytime soon. There was no mentioned of takedowns in the white belt stripe criteria, if someone came from to BJJ from Judo, i think it would be silly not to take advantage of their stand up skills.
All in my humble opinion.
We have a competition checklist for white belts White Belt:
- Minimum 1 high percentage escape from closed guard, mount, side control, rear mount
- a high percentage triangle and armbar escape
- guillotine defence
- 2 high percentage submissions from side control and mount
- 1 sweep from guard
- a decent rear naked choke
- 3 takedowns
Once they have that, throw yourself into competition and the mats don't lie. I first competed 4 months after starting BJJ, to be precise the competition was the third time i wore a Gi. I don't think people should be prescriptive about how you get your wins and if you're winning, then you're on your way to blue. I realise that sounds like blasphemy to some people, but i have 4 counters:
1. I think it's very limiting for white belts to decide they are going to do a particular style, they simply don't know enough about the options to make that choice
2. Linked to the point above, it's limiting for white belts to think they are immediately good at something because they have quick success with it at white belt level
3. There are patterns of neglected techniques becoming more effective as they get neglected from training (e.g. leg locks).
4. With such rigidity, you wouldn't have people in BJJ like Gilbert Burns who is frankly BJJ's best chance of having a UFC Champion anytime soon. There was no mentioned of takedowns in the white belt stripe criteria, if someone came from to BJJ from Judo, i think it would be silly not to take advantage of their stand up skills.
All in my humble opinion.
Black beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I'd be a one stripe white belt then. I think having the 'unpassable guard' is a valid strategy for some, but not all. The only times i've been in guard in matches are when i've picked up a guillotine standing and pulled guard to try and finish it, i wanted a rest because i was tired, up on points and felt like stalling or because i reversed a position into it. It's not like having your guard passed is a death sentence, even at the UFC level. Derrick Lewis is a BJJ blue belt and not an ex-wrestler, take a look at him in bottom side control, dude just stands up! It's actually pretty hard to pin someone in side control, if it was easy then wrestling matches wouldn't last very long. I appreciate that playing guard in training will to some extent make you a better guard passer, and I do. But let's not pretend goal keepers are the best penalty takers in football because they understand the flip side of things better. We have a competition checklist for white belts White Belt: - Minimum 1 high percentage escape from closed guard, mount, side control, rear mount - a high percentage triangle and armbar escape - guillotine defence - 2 high percentage submissions from side control and mount - 1 sweep from guard - a decent rear naked choke - 3 takedowns Once they have that, throw yourself into competition and the mats don't lie. I first competed 4 months after starting BJJ, to be precise the competition was the third time i wore a Gi. I don't think people should be prescriptive about how you get your wins and if you're winning, then you're on your way to blue. I realise that sounds like blasphemy to some people, but i have 4 counters: 1. I think it's very limiting for white belts to decide they are going to do a particular style, they simply don't know enough about the options to make that choice 2. Linked to the point above, it's limiting for white belts to think they are immediately good at something because they have quick success with it at white belt level 3. There are patterns of neglected techniques becoming more effective as they get neglected from training (e.g. leg locks). 4. With such rigidity, you wouldn't have people in BJJ like Gilbert Burns who is frankly BJJ's best chance of having a UFC Champion anytime soon. There was no mentioned of takedowns in the white belt stripe criteria, if someone came from to BJJ from Judo, i think it would be silly not to take advantage of their stand up skills. All in my humble opinion.
I feel like takedowns are more of a purple belt requirement, unless your sole purpose and academy is based on self defense.
Which honestly I could care less about self defense. I feel like your best self defense is your personality and decisions you make.
I know a couple of black belts that have gotten into a lot of street fights because even though they are good at jiu-jitsu they are shitty at life.
No one has tried to fight me my entire life. I also don't put myself in situations to increase the odds of that happening.
I do jiu-jitsu for problem solving. It's like a brain exercise to me. I love the psychology of it all.
In pure sport's jiu-jitsu I just don't care about takedowns for multiple reasons personally. One is it uses a lot of energy and I always have like 7 or 8 matches back to back. It's also high risk of injury. I think it is more important in nogi and I mostly just care about GI for longevity. I also like a lazy calm style of jiu-jitsu not an ultra aggressive go full speed all the time.
But since you said 3 takedowns I am sure I can pull guard 3 different ways to take myself down if that counts. lol
Which honestly I could care less about self defense. I feel like your best self defense is your personality and decisions you make.
I know a couple of black belts that have gotten into a lot of street fights because even though they are good at jiu-jitsu they are shitty at life.
No one has tried to fight me my entire life. I also don't put myself in situations to increase the odds of that happening.
I do jiu-jitsu for problem solving. It's like a brain exercise to me. I love the psychology of it all.
In pure sport's jiu-jitsu I just don't care about takedowns for multiple reasons personally. One is it uses a lot of energy and I always have like 7 or 8 matches back to back. It's also high risk of injury. I think it is more important in nogi and I mostly just care about GI for longevity. I also like a lazy calm style of jiu-jitsu not an ultra aggressive go full speed all the time.
But since you said 3 takedowns I am sure I can pull guard 3 different ways to take myself down if that counts. lol
Black beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Cool ill stop giving my opinion on anything since it's worthless and all you black belts can gather in a circle and do your thang. Good luck.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Black beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Cool ill stop giving my opinion on anything since it's worthless and all you black belts can gather in a circle and do your thang. Good luck.
Don’t be sensitive sir. This isn’t a marshmallow sport... speak your mind, be respectful to all, stand by your understanding until you can replace it with something that makes better sense and is worthy of replacing your current views. Your belt has nothing to do with your opinion or your ideas.
Respectively of course. Oss
Respectively of course. Oss
Black beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
People don't like it when you speak your mind. In order to sustain themselves they need to put down others. Last time I am replying. Again good luck.
I don’t like to refer to the bjj community as “just people”! We are a little stronger than your day to day Joe Shmoe....
If you’re worried about what people like before you speak your mind, then I don’t know what to tell you friend... you can’t teach people to have heart
If you’re worried about what people like before you speak your mind, then I don’t know what to tell you friend... you can’t teach people to have heart
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
People don't like it when you speak your mind. In order to sustain themselves they need to put down others. Last time I am replying. Again good luck.
Oh the irony of that post.
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
2 years later my opinion is:
The belts often but not always represent way more about someone's time spent in jiu jitsu than how good they actually are at jiu-jitsu or their ability to judge others abilities.
Sometimes knowledge or teaching ability of jiu-jitsu is the priority and that is really the best way to judge someone is their ability to bring someone up to their level.
Purple/Brown belts can sometimes bring someone up to their level better than a Black Belt can.
I also no longer think that a Purple Belt is an advanced belt. It is just intermediate with Blue Belt being a beginner belt and White Belt being novice. It's normally not until someone is getting close to Brown Belt that they are what I would call advanced.
When competing the belts don't matter. There are so many purple/brown belts and even some black belts that just are not what I would call "advanced' in jiu-jitsu. Intermediate at best or just flat out suck. They may have tons of knowledge and may be great teachers. Some of them even have their own academies. But they don't feel advanced. On the other side sometimes blue belts feel advanced on rare occasions.
Obviously the higher the belt the greater the likely hood that someone should be "advanced" in jiu-jitsu but just because someone is a black belt doesn't mean they are "advanced" or good at jiu-jitsu.
The best privates I have ever done where with a blue belt who should be a black belt. He finally got his purple a few months before me but he legit should be a black belt. He just had to find someone to affiliate under to start his promotion process again which is stupid. The reason I don't train under him is they don't really train in the GI and I love the GI and my entire focus is mostly on the Gi right now. I also really like my promoting instructor at where I train mostly. I don't care if he has ever competed or what he accomplished. I care more that he is just a super easy to get along with awesome human being that I can easily tell is very knowledgeable about jiu-jitsu and is a good instructor. I enjoy my training environment and that is what is most important. Sometimes having the "best" instructor is not what is best for the student. You also need to have training partners of different levels. Cross training is huge to fill any gaps. The longer you have trained the more you understand what you need to work and your instructor is just their to help you along the way while your doing most of the work.
So to respond to some previous comments again: "Ha - yeah, I can't say I'm too worried about standards white belts conjure up for higher belts. I pay attention to the standards black belts set, as they are the ones giving out rank. ;)"
I quite frankly don't care what someone's belt color is when it comes to giving out rank or setting standards. I care about are they actually good at jiu-jitsu now or previously or do they understand how to make someone else good at jiu-jitsu even if their body is broken. How good of a teacher or competitor are they? Doesn't have to be both. But needs to be at least one of the two. If you can't teach and you can't spar/compete I don't care what you have to say even if your a 2 stripe black belt.
There are a lot of Black Belts out there that are good competitors and horrible coaches.
There are good coaches and horrible competitors. (This is actually perfectly fine as the priority is teaching not competing if your an instructor)
There are Black belts that are barely what I would consider to be a purple belt and are good at neither also from getting promoted way to fast.
There are also non black belts that are good coaches and good competitors.
If you compare a competition purple/brown belt that competes on a regular basis compared to a black belt that never competes and makes self defense a priority or isn't a fan of cross training and competing the competitor is going to have a much better understanding of belt requirements in my mind.
I still feel the most important aspect for a belt is how good of a teacher someone is. But for those of us that compete on a regular basis (10+ times a year) we know and can feel right away exactly how someone will do in competition. I can roll with someone and have a very good understanding right away of how well they would do in competition at their rank, weight, age division and the next rank up and so on. I can feel their strengths, weaknesses, aggression/calmness strategies and so on.
In general I think someone should be between a 25 and 75% win percentage at the belt they are competing at when facing people near their age/weight/belt. If they are less than 25% then they got promoted to soon or are not ready for the next belt. If they are more than 75% then they probably need a promotion if they have time in grade and not trying to win Worlds or something as long as they don't have any glaring issues that need to be resolved. Like white belt wrestlers having no guard game working on their guard before blue belt but still competing against blue belts until they get their blue belt. Or blue belts with no wrestling/takedown needing to work on their wrestling some before purple belt even if they are doing well in tournaments. There are also purple belts that still have some glaring weaknesses that do really well in competition against any belt rank but need to become more well rounded before ever getting their brown belt and so on.
At normal academies where there are black belts I feel like the purple and brown belts should be able to openly nominate and discuss white belts being promoted to blue belt with their professor. And the same with brown belts suggesting blue belts for purple.
I do feel that there are absolutely Purple/Brown belts more than qualified to be able to promote their students. But those instructors should hold their students to a higher standard that of a competition standard when doing so. There should be no doubt that if they sign up for a tournament that they should be at that standard while a Black Belt can pick whatever standard they desire.
A lot of non competitors and casual competitors today get promoted way to fast. They do one competition as a white belt and regardless of the result their coach promotes them to blue belt. I see it all the time and they are just not ready for blue belt competition standards. I actually think Purple/Brown belt academy owners would be way more careful when it comes to promoting someone to blue or purple belt if they chose to do so.
I had a purple belt try to promote me to blue belt that I beat in competition when I was a white belt and I thought it was weird.
I had a brown belt that I beat in competition try to promote me to purple belt and I thought that was also weird. But I had no connection to those people.
I also had a legit 3 stripe black belt say that he would promote me to purple if I was training under him when I was just dropping in randomly but I respected my current coach enough to not even consider that as I don't train for belts.
If the guy that I do privates with sometimes was a purple belt when I was a white belt and decided that he wanted to promote me to blue belt before I met my current coach I would of accepted it because I would of trusted in his abilities and his judgement.
So I turned down blue and purple from strangers that where not black belts. I also turned down purple from a black belt that was not my promoting instructor. But I would of accepted blue from a blue belt(10+ years) coach that I have great respect for if he ever would of hypothetically offered it.
At the end of the day it's up to the students who they want to promote them. Who they trust. If they trust a purple belt to promote them to blue belt then so be it.
The belts often but not always represent way more about someone's time spent in jiu jitsu than how good they actually are at jiu-jitsu or their ability to judge others abilities.
Sometimes knowledge or teaching ability of jiu-jitsu is the priority and that is really the best way to judge someone is their ability to bring someone up to their level.
Purple/Brown belts can sometimes bring someone up to their level better than a Black Belt can.
I also no longer think that a Purple Belt is an advanced belt. It is just intermediate with Blue Belt being a beginner belt and White Belt being novice. It's normally not until someone is getting close to Brown Belt that they are what I would call advanced.
When competing the belts don't matter. There are so many purple/brown belts and even some black belts that just are not what I would call "advanced' in jiu-jitsu. Intermediate at best or just flat out suck. They may have tons of knowledge and may be great teachers. Some of them even have their own academies. But they don't feel advanced. On the other side sometimes blue belts feel advanced on rare occasions.
Obviously the higher the belt the greater the likely hood that someone should be "advanced" in jiu-jitsu but just because someone is a black belt doesn't mean they are "advanced" or good at jiu-jitsu.
The best privates I have ever done where with a blue belt who should be a black belt. He finally got his purple a few months before me but he legit should be a black belt. He just had to find someone to affiliate under to start his promotion process again which is stupid. The reason I don't train under him is they don't really train in the GI and I love the GI and my entire focus is mostly on the Gi right now. I also really like my promoting instructor at where I train mostly. I don't care if he has ever competed or what he accomplished. I care more that he is just a super easy to get along with awesome human being that I can easily tell is very knowledgeable about jiu-jitsu and is a good instructor. I enjoy my training environment and that is what is most important. Sometimes having the "best" instructor is not what is best for the student. You also need to have training partners of different levels. Cross training is huge to fill any gaps. The longer you have trained the more you understand what you need to work and your instructor is just their to help you along the way while your doing most of the work.
So to respond to some previous comments again: "Ha - yeah, I can't say I'm too worried about standards white belts conjure up for higher belts. I pay attention to the standards black belts set, as they are the ones giving out rank. ;)"
I quite frankly don't care what someone's belt color is when it comes to giving out rank or setting standards. I care about are they actually good at jiu-jitsu now or previously or do they understand how to make someone else good at jiu-jitsu even if their body is broken. How good of a teacher or competitor are they? Doesn't have to be both. But needs to be at least one of the two. If you can't teach and you can't spar/compete I don't care what you have to say even if your a 2 stripe black belt.
There are a lot of Black Belts out there that are good competitors and horrible coaches.
There are good coaches and horrible competitors. (This is actually perfectly fine as the priority is teaching not competing if your an instructor)
There are Black belts that are barely what I would consider to be a purple belt and are good at neither also from getting promoted way to fast.
There are also non black belts that are good coaches and good competitors.
If you compare a competition purple/brown belt that competes on a regular basis compared to a black belt that never competes and makes self defense a priority or isn't a fan of cross training and competing the competitor is going to have a much better understanding of belt requirements in my mind.
I still feel the most important aspect for a belt is how good of a teacher someone is. But for those of us that compete on a regular basis (10+ times a year) we know and can feel right away exactly how someone will do in competition. I can roll with someone and have a very good understanding right away of how well they would do in competition at their rank, weight, age division and the next rank up and so on. I can feel their strengths, weaknesses, aggression/calmness strategies and so on.
In general I think someone should be between a 25 and 75% win percentage at the belt they are competing at when facing people near their age/weight/belt. If they are less than 25% then they got promoted to soon or are not ready for the next belt. If they are more than 75% then they probably need a promotion if they have time in grade and not trying to win Worlds or something as long as they don't have any glaring issues that need to be resolved. Like white belt wrestlers having no guard game working on their guard before blue belt but still competing against blue belts until they get their blue belt. Or blue belts with no wrestling/takedown needing to work on their wrestling some before purple belt even if they are doing well in tournaments. There are also purple belts that still have some glaring weaknesses that do really well in competition against any belt rank but need to become more well rounded before ever getting their brown belt and so on.
At normal academies where there are black belts I feel like the purple and brown belts should be able to openly nominate and discuss white belts being promoted to blue belt with their professor. And the same with brown belts suggesting blue belts for purple.
I do feel that there are absolutely Purple/Brown belts more than qualified to be able to promote their students. But those instructors should hold their students to a higher standard that of a competition standard when doing so. There should be no doubt that if they sign up for a tournament that they should be at that standard while a Black Belt can pick whatever standard they desire.
A lot of non competitors and casual competitors today get promoted way to fast. They do one competition as a white belt and regardless of the result their coach promotes them to blue belt. I see it all the time and they are just not ready for blue belt competition standards. I actually think Purple/Brown belt academy owners would be way more careful when it comes to promoting someone to blue or purple belt if they chose to do so.
I had a purple belt try to promote me to blue belt that I beat in competition when I was a white belt and I thought it was weird.
I had a brown belt that I beat in competition try to promote me to purple belt and I thought that was also weird. But I had no connection to those people.
I also had a legit 3 stripe black belt say that he would promote me to purple if I was training under him when I was just dropping in randomly but I respected my current coach enough to not even consider that as I don't train for belts.
If the guy that I do privates with sometimes was a purple belt when I was a white belt and decided that he wanted to promote me to blue belt before I met my current coach I would of accepted it because I would of trusted in his abilities and his judgement.
So I turned down blue and purple from strangers that where not black belts. I also turned down purple from a black belt that was not my promoting instructor. But I would of accepted blue from a blue belt(10+ years) coach that I have great respect for if he ever would of hypothetically offered it.
At the end of the day it's up to the students who they want to promote them. Who they trust. If they trust a purple belt to promote them to blue belt then so be it.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
I've given some blue belts as a brown belt. Nobody cared at all cause I wasn't affiliated at the time. Probably would've been the same if I was still purple. These people are now recognized as blue belts in affiliations that do require a black belt to do any promotions.
This is confusing.
This is confusing.
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
Ultimately, no matter what your rank is or who gave it to you it will eventually become apparent if you are legit or not. Some will be exposed through their lack of knowledge while teaching, others in competition or during open roll. If you are wearing a belt you don’t deserve or didn’t earn, it’s a bad idea. You WILL be exposed.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
Well I am just a white belt...but to me a purple belt is someone who can really pressure you with non stopped chained attacks from every position be it simply passing or submission attempts. Just flat out overwhelm you with knowledge and experience from everywhere. They can easily escape and reverse every position as well without even thinking about it. It has just become natural and instinctual to the point to where they should be a step ahead of someone not at that level as they no longer have to really think about any basic movements...the body just does it without thinking. The only thinking at this point should be strategy based. This may be more of a 2 to 3 stripe purple belt thing. But to me that is the difference.
James, is the purplebelt-you up to whitebelt-you's standard?
Purple beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
Ultimately, no matter what your rank is or who gave it to you it will eventually become apparent if you are legit or not. Some will be exposed through their lack of knowledge while teaching, others in competition or during open roll. If you are wearing a belt you don’t deserve or didn’t earn, it’s a bad idea. You WILL be exposed.
Context, i'm the blue belt that was promoted by a purple belt and some people felt a certain kind of way about that. I was winning white belt divisions but grappling industries wouldn't allow me to compete up a belt so it became a matter of urgency. There's a very high level black belt who could have promoted me, but we would have had to wait for him to be in the country. Also context, I couldn't care less about what the IBJJF rules are on the matter, i don't do their competitions and never will, they don't own jiu jisu.
Anyway, the results are in. I have a winning record at blue now, various medals including winning a large division, i've submitted people twice as often as i've been submitted, i've also beaten purple belts in competition.
So yes, i did need to move out the white belt division and have zero regrets about what happened. It's just a fudging blue belt and i agree with everything James said about what an advanced belt is.
Anyway, the results are in. I have a winning record at blue now, various medals including winning a large division, i've submitted people twice as often as i've been submitted, i've also beaten purple belts in competition.
So yes, i did need to move out the white belt division and have zero regrets about what happened. It's just a fudging blue belt and i agree with everything James said about what an advanced belt is.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
Totally reasonable.
I personally would've (and have in past) weighed following two options in similar scenario:
1) Have a blackbelt that knows said person "co-sign" that belt and have it as "their" promotion everywhere. I'm sure several even from Beltchecker who have rolled you woud've vouched.
2) Just register yourself and compete in higher categories without announcing it as "promotion" anywhere.
I personally would've (and have in past) weighed following two options in similar scenario:
1) Have a blackbelt that knows said person "co-sign" that belt and have it as "their" promotion everywhere. I'm sure several even from Beltchecker who have rolled you woud've vouched.
2) Just register yourself and compete in higher categories without announcing it as "promotion" anywhere.

Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
James, is the purplebelt-you up to whitebelt-you's standard?
Against your average non athletic casual yes.
Against someone with a lot of experience it should not be that easy.
Escaping a higher level opponent isn't just about the escape anymore. They may just let you move/escape exactly into where they actually want you.
There's always someone who should be able to stop your movement. I think movement is the key issue. If someone can stop your ability to move then they basically have won regardless of whatever else happens. Or if they are in complete control of when and where your able to move.
I would say that a big blue belt with a good wrestling background and a few years of doing jiu Jitsu if they get in a strong top position against your average purple belt they could stop or greatly hinder or finish the purple belt. I don't think this should happen against brown belts for the most part if they are trying.
So I guess I would say my primary focus now offensive or defensive is just movement. Being able to move when and wherever you want on your own terms while removing those terms from the opponent.
Against someone with a lot of experience it should not be that easy.
Escaping a higher level opponent isn't just about the escape anymore. They may just let you move/escape exactly into where they actually want you.
There's always someone who should be able to stop your movement. I think movement is the key issue. If someone can stop your ability to move then they basically have won regardless of whatever else happens. Or if they are in complete control of when and where your able to move.
I would say that a big blue belt with a good wrestling background and a few years of doing jiu Jitsu if they get in a strong top position against your average purple belt they could stop or greatly hinder or finish the purple belt. I don't think this should happen against brown belts for the most part if they are trying.
So I guess I would say my primary focus now offensive or defensive is just movement. Being able to move when and wherever you want on your own terms while removing those terms from the opponent.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Purple beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
Just register yourself and compete in higher categories without announcing it as 'promotion' anywhere.
But then what belt would i have worn on the day? If i turn up in my 4 stripe white belt then grappling industries would know what i've done and probably not let me compete. If i put on a blue belt i wasn't awarded then doesn't that go against the entire purpose of the site?
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
But then what belt would i have worn on the day? If i turn up in my 4 stripe white belt then grappling industries would know what i've done and probably not let me compete. If i put on a blue belt i wasn't awarded then doesn't that go against the entire purpose of the site?
Basically you have to do what I did/do.
Only compete at tournaments that allow you to compete up and not at the ones that do not.
Ones that allow it:
- Newbreed
- Naga
- Fuji
- Nuway Combat (BJJ Fanatics)
Ones that dont:
- IBJJF
- Grappling Industries
- Tap Cancer Out
- AGF
- Most all others
While it's nice there are a few organizations that will allow this. It's very annoying that the biggest organization (IBJJF) and Grappling Industries that I have lifetime membership would not allow this. Now that I am a purple belt I can actually get better matches. And the comment everyone will make is go do Worlds or Pans or something but that's the dumbest comment in the world. The goal isn't to win championships it's to get better at jiu-jitsu through constant tough competition matches non stop. Not pay a ton of money to go do 1 or 2 big tournaments a year. You need year round competition to help you improve.
My first tournament as a purple belt the other week the ref was complaining/joking after I beat some guy to my opponent saying hoping that I wouldn't be a purple belt for long. I mean that's cool and every belt I have ever had I've had the ref's and my opponents make fun of my belt but it's gets old and annoying fast. I would really like to feel more of a struggle. The only struggle I have ever really ever felt like was my first couple tournaments as a white belt when I did my first few tournaments after 1 month of training and then a few months later which was stupid of me but I would like to feel when promoted that man I really gotta climb up a mountain to get to the next level and I've just never felt that and it annoys me. There's so many people that can kick my ass and destroy me but they are not in the 200+ pound divisions normally. I really feel bad for all the bigger guys out there as they do not get near the challenge that the lighter weight divisions have as they progress in jiu-jitsu. My last lost to someone over 200 pounds was last year...and that guy was just a freaking tank. Not going to lie he just man handled me. He was on all the TRT but still it was impressive how his 1 hand felt like 2 freaking hands.
It's like playing a video game that has multiple difficulties but you can't choose the harder difficulties even though the current difficulty is to easy on average. If 75% of the time is way to easy, 15% of the time just right and 10% of the time you get wrecked that is pretty boring. It's much more fun for things to be a nice challenge the majority of the time.
I am already bored doing purple belt divisions at newbreed/naga/fuji etc. I've won 13 purple belt divisions so far I think? I've lost track and 2 brown belt divisions. IBJJF will be a bit more exciting I suppose. The 170 to 190 pounders are way more technical than the 200+ guys so the absolutes will be fun when I am eligible but I have to find someone to sign up under and sign for me still and I can't start that process for another 25 days as I wasn't a blue belt for 2 years.
Only compete at tournaments that allow you to compete up and not at the ones that do not.
Ones that allow it:
- Newbreed
- Naga
- Fuji
- Nuway Combat (BJJ Fanatics)
Ones that dont:
- IBJJF
- Grappling Industries
- Tap Cancer Out
- AGF
- Most all others
While it's nice there are a few organizations that will allow this. It's very annoying that the biggest organization (IBJJF) and Grappling Industries that I have lifetime membership would not allow this. Now that I am a purple belt I can actually get better matches. And the comment everyone will make is go do Worlds or Pans or something but that's the dumbest comment in the world. The goal isn't to win championships it's to get better at jiu-jitsu through constant tough competition matches non stop. Not pay a ton of money to go do 1 or 2 big tournaments a year. You need year round competition to help you improve.
My first tournament as a purple belt the other week the ref was complaining/joking after I beat some guy to my opponent saying hoping that I wouldn't be a purple belt for long. I mean that's cool and every belt I have ever had I've had the ref's and my opponents make fun of my belt but it's gets old and annoying fast. I would really like to feel more of a struggle. The only struggle I have ever really ever felt like was my first couple tournaments as a white belt when I did my first few tournaments after 1 month of training and then a few months later which was stupid of me but I would like to feel when promoted that man I really gotta climb up a mountain to get to the next level and I've just never felt that and it annoys me. There's so many people that can kick my ass and destroy me but they are not in the 200+ pound divisions normally. I really feel bad for all the bigger guys out there as they do not get near the challenge that the lighter weight divisions have as they progress in jiu-jitsu. My last lost to someone over 200 pounds was last year...and that guy was just a freaking tank. Not going to lie he just man handled me. He was on all the TRT but still it was impressive how his 1 hand felt like 2 freaking hands.
It's like playing a video game that has multiple difficulties but you can't choose the harder difficulties even though the current difficulty is to easy on average. If 75% of the time is way to easy, 15% of the time just right and 10% of the time you get wrecked that is pretty boring. It's much more fun for things to be a nice challenge the majority of the time.
I am already bored doing purple belt divisions at newbreed/naga/fuji etc. I've won 13 purple belt divisions so far I think? I've lost track and 2 brown belt divisions. IBJJF will be a bit more exciting I suppose. The 170 to 190 pounders are way more technical than the 200+ guys so the absolutes will be fun when I am eligible but I have to find someone to sign up under and sign for me still and I can't start that process for another 25 days as I wasn't a blue belt for 2 years.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Brown beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
And the comment everyone will make is go do Worlds or Pans or something but that's the dumbest comment in the world. The goal isn't to win championships it's to get better at jiu-jitsu through constant tough competition matches non stop.
I think you're misunderstanding why people are suggesting this. You're constantly complaining about the tournaments you go to not being difficult enough and that you're not getting enough of a challenge. Perfectly understandable, but then the logical response from everyone will be that you should go to tournaments where the competition is stronger and closer to the level you want to compete at. You can do all the tournaments you regularly do AND Pan Ams or worlds. Those aren't mutually exclusive. And, at least in Germany, the entrance fee for NAGA is almost the same or comparable to the IBJJF Europeans, so you wouldn't be spending more. There's no real reason to not do the larger tournaments if you want the challenge.
But only doing the tournaments that you know don't have the challenge that you are looking for, and then complaining that it's not challenging on the internet to random people you've never met just seems counter productive and a little disingenuous.
But only doing the tournaments that you know don't have the challenge that you are looking for, and then complaining that it's not challenging on the internet to random people you've never met just seems counter productive and a little disingenuous.
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
I think you're misunderstanding why people are suggesting this. You're constantly complaining about the tournaments you go to not being difficult enough and that you're not getting enough of a challenge. Perfectly understandable, but then the logical response from everyone will be that you should go to tournaments where the competition is stronger and closer to the level you want to compete at. You can do all the tournaments you regularly do AND Pan Ams or worlds. Those aren't mutually exclusive. And, at least in Germany, the entrance fee for NAGA is almost the same or comparable to the IBJJF Europeans, so you wouldn't be spending more. There's no real reason to not do the larger tournaments if you want the challenge. But only doing the tournaments that you know don't have the challenge that you are looking for, and then complaining that it's not challenging on the internet to random people you've never met just seems counter productive and a little disingenuous.
Pans and World's cost over 1000 if not 2000 dollars to attend
In the usa not everything is so close together. It actually costs more money in transportation and lodging here than traveling through several different countries in Europe. It would require several days off work as well. Also I'm not even eligible yet. Maybe pans next year if I find someone to sign under.
And yes doing those would be a tougher challenge but also have to be able to afford it and doesn't solve the issue. Also fuck the IBJJF and all their bullshit.
Also I've always competed up against higher ranks. I'm never looking for easier matches / tournaments.
But if you compare spending 2000 for 1 tournament or 15 tournaments obviously imma get more out of doing 15 tournaments regardless of the quality. I don't care about losing but the idea of spending so much money and if you lose your first match that's it is not enticing. Have to plan an entire family vacation around it to make it worth it mentally.
Anyways I get distracted responding to responses. Not really the point of the thread.
In the usa not everything is so close together. It actually costs more money in transportation and lodging here than traveling through several different countries in Europe. It would require several days off work as well. Also I'm not even eligible yet. Maybe pans next year if I find someone to sign under.
And yes doing those would be a tougher challenge but also have to be able to afford it and doesn't solve the issue. Also fuck the IBJJF and all their bullshit.
Also I've always competed up against higher ranks. I'm never looking for easier matches / tournaments.
But if you compare spending 2000 for 1 tournament or 15 tournaments obviously imma get more out of doing 15 tournaments regardless of the quality. I don't care about losing but the idea of spending so much money and if you lose your first match that's it is not enticing. Have to plan an entire family vacation around it to make it worth it mentally.
Anyways I get distracted responding to responses. Not really the point of the thread.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Brown beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
Pans and World's cost over 1000 if not 2000 dollars to attend
Um, what? I just looked this up. Maximum fee for IBJJF NoGi worlds is 175 USD.
https://ibjjf.com/events/[...]nship-2022
https://ibjjf.com/events/[...]nship-2022
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
Um, what? I just looked this up. Maximum fee for IBJJF NoGi worlds is 175 USD. https://ibjjf.com/events/[...]nship-2022
That's just an entrance fee.
Again when you add up transportation and lodging and taking time off work and so on it ends up being easily 1500 to 2000 dollars.
Again when you add up transportation and lodging and taking time off work and so on it ends up being easily 1500 to 2000 dollars.
Purple beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
Basically you have to do what I did/do. Only compete at tournaments that allow you to compete up and not at the ones that do not. Ones that allow it: - Newbreed - Naga - Fuji - Nuway Combat (BJJ Fanatics)
So 3 that don't operate in the UK and NAGA who last ran a competition in the UK in 2019.
Interestingly grappling industries will now let you compete up 1 division NoGi.
Interestingly grappling industries will now let you compete up 1 division NoGi.
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
So 3 that don't operate in the UK and NAGA who last ran a competition in the UK in 2019. Interestingly grappling industries will now let you compete up 1 division NoGi.
Nogi normally isn't an issue except for IBJJF.
GI is the issue for most organizations. I understand nogi doesn't have a belt. But it's far safer and easier competing in the Gi so I do find it somewhat strange all these white belts signing up for advanced nogi and getting messed up but can't compete up in the GI.
GI is the issue for most organizations. I understand nogi doesn't have a belt. But it's far safer and easier competing in the Gi so I do find it somewhat strange all these white belts signing up for advanced nogi and getting messed up but can't compete up in the GI.
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
It's a blue belt. Back in the day when there were only one or two blues in the area it was a big deal. Today, given the variation in blue belts I have come across, this should absolutely be a non issue. Yes a purple should be able to promote to blue, not ideal, but I have no issues with that. Should the purple be allowed to give stripes on the blue and if so how many?
Yes, up to 4. It’s been generally established that you can promote up to a belt level below yours, and that includes stripes. The belt is not the end all be all, and of course your performance on the mat is the true display of your actual skill, but it does mean something. I do take issue when folks call or think of the belt as just another piece of fabric. It’s not. That belt is a representation of the blood, sweat, tears, and effort you put in to making yourself a better person than you were the day before. Disrespecting that I feel is not only disrespecting the art, but disrespecting the people who have dedicated their lives to it, and discouraging to those who just started out who are motivated by the prospect of achieving that next rank (no, it’s not wrong to have goals) and the sense of accomplishment that comes with it.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
I also no longer think that a Purple Belt is an advanced belt. It is just intermediate with Blue Belt being a beginner belt and White Belt being novice. It's normally not until someone is getting close to Brown Belt that they are what I would call advanced.
That is how I've felt at every belt level. The one concept that has been true throughout my journey is that you grow into your belt. I've never felt "ready" and "defending the belt" has always been stressful for me. The question of promotion to next belt levels, for me, is simple - can you display some variation of jiu jitsu techniques against a resisting opponent at your belt level or higher consistently? If the answer is yes then you are ready for the next level, except for black belt. At that level, I think you must be able to do it against high level black belts or be able to teach your game to others. Maybe that criteria should be reserved for black belt degrees, but at brown belt, I think you should be giving back to the art through competition or teaching to advance to black belt.
Having said that, I have no opinion on blue belt promotions. You can promote yourself and it wouldn't bother me.
Having said that, I have no opinion on blue belt promotions. You can promote yourself and it wouldn't bother me.
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
That is how I've felt at every belt level. The one concept that has been true throughout my journey is that you grow into your belt. I've never felt 'ready' and 'defending the belt' has always been stressful for me. The question of promotion to next belt levels, for me, is simple - can you display some variation of jiu jitsu techniques against a resisting opponent at your belt level or higher consistently? If the answer is yes then you are ready for the next level, except for black belt. At that level, I think you must be able to do it against high level black belts or be able to teach your game to others. Maybe that criteria should be reserved for black belt degrees, but at brown belt, I think you should be giving back to the art through competition or teaching to advance to black belt. Having said that, I have no opinion on blue belt promotions. You can promote yourself and it wouldn't bother me.
I really don't feel that much difference between white and blue belts anymore.
Just that white belts suck a little bit more and do more stupid stuff or don't do anything at all really.
The only exception being wrestlers that have started doing actual jiu-jitsu that are over 200 pounds. You can feel that difference.
Just that white belts suck a little bit more and do more stupid stuff or don't do anything at all really.
The only exception being wrestlers that have started doing actual jiu-jitsu that are over 200 pounds. You can feel that difference.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
I understand the cost situation you are in. It has stopped me in the past from attending some tournaments due to the locality of it. My cousin who operates a school in Fayetteville would drive and sleep in his car while traveling twice a year. If there is a will, there is a way.
Have you tried competing in the ibjjf Opens near you? I know they have one in Chartlotte and Atlanta throughout the year.
Have you tried competing in the ibjjf Opens near you? I know they have one in Chartlotte and Atlanta throughout the year.
Black beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
I understand the cost situation you are in. It has stopped me in the past from attending some tournaments due to the locality of it. My cousin who operates a school in Fayetteville would drive and sleep in his car while traveling twice a year. If there is a will, there is a way. Have you tried competing in the ibjjf Opens near you? I know they have one in Chartlotte and Atlanta throughout the year.
I have, I am not elligible at the moment though.
Regional tournaments are not that expensive compared to Pans or Worlds. I was just commenting about pans and worlds as they are really far away and require a lot of travel expenses and i got a 6 month old baby.
Regional tournaments are not that expensive compared to Pans or Worlds. I was just commenting about pans and worlds as they are really far away and require a lot of travel expenses and i got a 6 month old baby.
Edited 4 year(s) ago


