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What do you think about verifying also luta livre belts?
5 year(s) ago • 3784 views • 37 replies
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
As per subject. What do you think about verifying also luta livre belts?
I know at least a brown belt who's registered here and clearly is not getting any point. And I know the topic has been discussed "on the fly" but maybe we should give it a more thorough discussion.
Personally I find that in the year 2020 the differences between the two styles are close to zero and more a matter of lineage than anything else. Especially here in Germany where there is possibly the strongest luta livre scene in Europe, people from the two styles train together and competes at the same tournaments.
I think that letting the luta livre people have their belt community verified here could be accepted without even changing anything in the text, statements and related written parts of the website.
And yes I think as of nowadays situation of the sports/arts, this should be valid only for luta livre people as clearly judo, sambo, wrestling, letting aside the point if they have belts or not, are not in the same relation with jiu-jitsu.
I know at least a brown belt who's registered here and clearly is not getting any point. And I know the topic has been discussed "on the fly" but maybe we should give it a more thorough discussion.
Personally I find that in the year 2020 the differences between the two styles are close to zero and more a matter of lineage than anything else. Especially here in Germany where there is possibly the strongest luta livre scene in Europe, people from the two styles train together and competes at the same tournaments.
I think that letting the luta livre people have their belt community verified here could be accepted without even changing anything in the text, statements and related written parts of the website.
And yes I think as of nowadays situation of the sports/arts, this should be valid only for luta livre people as clearly judo, sambo, wrestling, letting aside the point if they have belts or not, are not in the same relation with jiu-jitsu.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
How would LL people feel about equating with BJJ?
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I guess if they are making a profile here, they are fine with it. The more radical will not be here.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
LL should have their own verification site instead of jumping on the bjj beltchecker bandwagon.
There is no way to verify them here really. It has nothing to do with their skillset. This site does not verify wrestlers or judo players either.
There is no way to verify them here really. It has nothing to do with their skillset. This site does not verify wrestlers or judo players either.
SZBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
LL should have their own verification site instead of jumping on the bjj beltchecker bandwagon. There is no way to verify them here really. It has nothing to do with their skillset. This site does not verify wrestlers or judo players either.
Agree.
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
There is no way to verify them here really.
Personal knowledge, like should be the case for verification of jiu-jitsu people ;)
SZBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I found this interesting article while looking up the relation between BJJ and LL that shows some early matches between the 2.
https://www.bjjheroes.com[...]uta-livre#
https://www.bjjheroes.com[...]uta-livre#
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
It has nothing to do with their skillset. This site does not verify wrestlers or judo players either.
And as I wrote, "And yes I think as of nowadays situation of the sports/arts, this should be valid only for luta livre people as clearly judo, sambo, wrestling, letting aside the point if they have belts or not, are not in the same relation with jiu-jitsu."
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
At the same time I recognize that my different point of view over the entire LL/BJJ debate is heavily influenced by my geographical location. I don't know of any other area in the world where luta livre and jiu-jitsu schools cross-train and compete in the same tournaments as much as in Germany.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Personal knowledge, like should be the case for verification of jiu-jitsu people ;)
Yes agree on personal knowledge but this is a bjj site so they should move along and do their own thing or throw the gi on.
MMBlue beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
But BJJ is in a gi
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
While we all have two arms and two legs, LL has it's own separate identity, belt system, certification (, promotion criteria?) etc. I don't think it would make much sense to merge them together on this site. If there was a database of Luta Livre practitioners, probably wouldn't make sense for BJJ practitioners to register their belts there either. Not to mention the technicalities of mixing two different belt systems.
With that said it is highly plausible, that clones of this site for other styles will happen down the road / next year - we're already laying the groundwork for it.
With that said it is highly plausible, that clones of this site for other styles will happen down the road / next year - we're already laying the groundwork for it.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I just happened to train, for the first time, extensively with a very good LL black belt throughout last week, and couldn't figure out what the difference would be in this particular modern German breed of Luta Livre and "no-gi jiu-jitsu". Thus, based on this (singular) experience, I now understand where Francesco is coming from way better.
10th Planet belts are okay here just because they are considered to be a "jiu-jitsu style", even though they don't train in the gi... I don't really anymore think that this version of "Luta Livre" is different in a unique way from BJJ than, say, p10 or some other pure no-gi style is.
Then again, I don't know how the belts & the skillset match those in BJJ across the lower ranks.
10th Planet belts are okay here just because they are considered to be a "jiu-jitsu style", even though they don't train in the gi... I don't really anymore think that this version of "Luta Livre" is different in a unique way from BJJ than, say, p10 or some other pure no-gi style is.
Then again, I don't know how the belts & the skillset match those in BJJ across the lower ranks.
DBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
3 comments
1. If you thought BJJ was bad with all the infighting, drama, pyramid schemes and rivalries... May I present to you, LL. There is a bewildering variation of standards for promotion, for instance: time in rank. I know of LL black belts that promoted their students to BB on the day of their very own BB promtion. (I'll do you, you do me sort of thing). And LL has always been a truly disorganized bunch. Say what you will about BJJ, at least there's some semblance of established rules regarding promotion.
2. Sadly, LL has also become a catchall term for different folks doing 'MMA Grappling' and handing out unverified, fantasy belts. So it leaves the door open for more fuckery.
3. That being said. Should we agree that they do have a place here, PROOF OF LINEAGE and COMPETITION RESULTS become even more paramount.
I know I was one of the first to address this issue with Heiko's promotion. But I'm totally open to have a discussion and change my mind.
1. If you thought BJJ was bad with all the infighting, drama, pyramid schemes and rivalries... May I present to you, LL. There is a bewildering variation of standards for promotion, for instance: time in rank. I know of LL black belts that promoted their students to BB on the day of their very own BB promtion. (I'll do you, you do me sort of thing). And LL has always been a truly disorganized bunch. Say what you will about BJJ, at least there's some semblance of established rules regarding promotion.
2. Sadly, LL has also become a catchall term for different folks doing 'MMA Grappling' and handing out unverified, fantasy belts. So it leaves the door open for more fuckery.
3. That being said. Should we agree that they do have a place here, PROOF OF LINEAGE and COMPETITION RESULTS become even more paramount.
I know I was one of the first to address this issue with Heiko's promotion. But I'm totally open to have a discussion and change my mind.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
3 comments 1. If you thought BJJ was bad with all the infighting, drama, pyramid schemes and rivalries... May I present to you, LL. There is a bewildering variation of standards for promotion, for instance: time in rank. I know of LL black belts that promoted their students to BB on the day of their very own BB promtion. (I'll do you, you do me sort of thing). And LL has always been a truly disorganized bunch. Say what you will about BJJ, at least there's some semblance of established rules regarding promotion. 2. Sadly, LL has also become a catchall term for different folks doing 'MMA Grappling' and handing out unverified, fantasy belts. So it leaves the door open for more fuckery. 3. That being said. Should we agree that they do have a place here, PROOF OF LINEAGE and COMPETITION RESULTS become even more paramount. I know I was one of the first to address this issue with Heiko's promotion. But I'm totally open to have a discussion and change my mind.
This is where we should remember to credit IBJJF for their hard work to create some sort of standards for our sport.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
DPBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
FRPurple beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
Hello,
I would love to have the Luta Livre verifying process integrated here.
1. BJJ and Luta Livre styles nowadays are most often very "close" - totally makes sense to integrate it here.
2. But, Luta Livre has its own identity, history and as far as I know also some pecularities that differ from BJJ (Esportiva & Combativa Styles).
2. Many of the Luta Livre blackbelts are also BJJ blackbelts.
3. Luta Livre has its own identity, history, and as far as I know also some peculiarities that differ from BJJ, but the Luta Livre community is
4. basically: same-same but different ;-)
Clearly, the Luta Livre community is not as organized as the BJJ community. To help them grow in a well structured manner would be cool.
kind regards!
I would love to have the Luta Livre verifying process integrated here.
1. BJJ and Luta Livre styles nowadays are most often very "close" - totally makes sense to integrate it here.
2. But, Luta Livre has its own identity, history and as far as I know also some pecularities that differ from BJJ (Esportiva & Combativa Styles).
2. Many of the Luta Livre blackbelts are also BJJ blackbelts.
3. Luta Livre has its own identity, history, and as far as I know also some peculiarities that differ from BJJ, but the Luta Livre community is
4. basically: same-same but different ;-)
Clearly, the Luta Livre community is not as organized as the BJJ community. To help them grow in a well structured manner would be cool.
kind regards!
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Luta Livre would need a Luta Livre Checker independent of BJJ.
Similar for sure but altogether a different art.
Verifying Luta Livre on a BJJ Beltchecker site does not make sense.
For some reason (probably inactivity or lack of interest) all the other "Checker" sites were disabled.
Similar for sure but altogether a different art.
Verifying Luta Livre on a BJJ Beltchecker site does not make sense.
For some reason (probably inactivity or lack of interest) all the other "Checker" sites were disabled.
JCPurple beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
If we're doing LL we should throw in catch wrestling as well. Don't want anybody to feel left out.
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
If we're doing LL we should throw in catch wrestling as well. Don't want anybody to feel left out.
And since we're doing catch wrestling, why not tkd? The tkd dojo down the street includes "some grappling". Seems legit.
DPBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
We actually had
Lutalivrechecker
Taekwondochecker
Kenpochecker
And Judochecker
But hackers kept fucking with the sites so Christian had to shut them down. They didn’t pay enough to cover the security.
It would be great to at least integrate a No-GI designation as there are some like 10P and LL and no-GI specialists.
Lutalivrechecker
Taekwondochecker
Kenpochecker
And Judochecker
But hackers kept fucking with the sites so Christian had to shut them down. They didn’t pay enough to cover the security.
It would be great to at least integrate a No-GI designation as there are some like 10P and LL and no-GI specialists.
FRPurple beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
If we're doing LL we should throw in catch wrestling as well. Don't want anybody to feel left out.
no belts in catch wrestling ....
FRPurple beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
We actually had Lutalivrechecker Taekwondochecker Kenpochecker And Judochecker But hackers kept fucking with the sites so Christian had to shut them down. They didn’t pay enough to cover the security. It would be great to at least integrate a No-GI designation as there are some like 10P and LL and no-GI specialists.
agree 100%. 10P and LL have the "same" kind of belt system ... so it would make sense to integrate them here
KGPurple beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
If people ask me what I do, I tell them I do "Grappling" not BJJ.
But if the skill I aquire translates to what people consider BJJ skills they vote for me to be of that belt.
So, perhaps luta livre people could just sign up here and engage with the community, i.e. go to camps or open mats, prove their worth and become verified.
Im all for consolidating the Grappling arts.
Unless Im missing something major here that makes it so people need to words Luta Livre in their certification. Could well be.
But if the skill I aquire translates to what people consider BJJ skills they vote for me to be of that belt.
So, perhaps luta livre people could just sign up here and engage with the community, i.e. go to camps or open mats, prove their worth and become verified.
Im all for consolidating the Grappling arts.
Unless Im missing something major here that makes it so people need to words Luta Livre in their certification. Could well be.
BSBlack beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
If people ask me what I do, I tell them I do "Grappling" not BJJ. But if the skill I aquire translates to what people consider BJJ skills they vote for me to be of that belt. So, perhaps luta livre people could just sign up here and engage with the community, i.e. go to camps or open mats, prove their worth and become verified. Im all for consolidating the Grappling arts. Unless Im missing something major here that makes it so people need to words Luta Livre in their certification. Could well be.
Agreed. At this point it's all just "Submission Grappling" anyways.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
I personally favour branding inclusively all forms of submission grappling under the term "jiu jitsu" (because F those traditional jiu jitsu guys, it's evolution baby 😉).
KGPurple beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
I personally favour branding inclusively all forms of submission grappling under the term "jiu jitsu" (because F those traditional jiu jitsu guys, it's evolution baby 😉).
see what makes BJJ so great to me is that it isn't a particular set of techniques or a specific rule set. Athletes compete under various rule sets and what ever works works. So in a way it encompasses judo, wrestling, ne waza in traditional jiu jitsu and any other form of grabbing dudes.
And we kinda got a word for encompassing all the grabbing arts, and its grappling.
But I'll be honest with you, I probably use the term jiu jitsu more than I do grappling when Im just telling people what Im doing later 😄
so who cares
And we kinda got a word for encompassing all the grabbing arts, and its grappling.
But I'll be honest with you, I probably use the term jiu jitsu more than I do grappling when Im just telling people what Im doing later 😄
so who cares
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
1 year(s) ago
Could I go ahead and verify myself as a Luta Livre black belt then? I don't think so 🙂
KGPurple beltVerified
1 year(s) ago
Could I go ahead and verify myself as a Luta Livre black belt then? I don't think so 🙂
I was thinking the other way around, a Luta Livre black belt could create a profile here and become verified as a "bjj" black belt. If his (whatever we collectively value) is what it should be.
But now that you say it, what are you missing from being a Luta Livre black belt? You think if you joined a Luta Livre school and started training there it would take long before the instructor would award you a black belt?
Its a serious question btw, I know very little about Luta Livre. I just assume it essentially the same thing just no gi and under a different name.
But now that you say it, what are you missing from being a Luta Livre black belt? You think if you joined a Luta Livre school and started training there it would take long before the instructor would award you a black belt?
Its a serious question btw, I know very little about Luta Livre. I just assume it essentially the same thing just no gi and under a different name.
