Rules for main forums
- Be nice
- No advertisement
- No events
- No fundraisers
- No topics asking for votes
- Only posts related to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
State of the Sport - World Governing Body or not, IBJJF, facts, rumours and so on
6 year(s) ago • 576 views • 24 replies
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
For those in the know and for those interested - let's talk the "official" state of the sport worldwide.
Does IBJJF have any hope for coming more legitimate within IOC?
Let me explain - in Estonia if one would apply for any Country/State benefits or recognitions for sports for a sports club one needs to be a member of the country Olympic Committee. To be a member you have to do a recognised sport. For a sport to be recognised, the main governing body of the sport has to be a member of the IOC.
So for example in regards my operations in my own country (which is where the clubs income is generated) getting currently certified by IBJJF would mean nothing :(
There are other worldwide organisations trying to regulate jiu-jitsu. FILA used to do a pretty decent job but they had to refocus on the wrestling and while UWW still holds "grappling" I don't think it will ever be anything else than fringe - mains sports and main people in UWW and national bodies see it as a threat to "classical" wrestling. And to be honest - I kinda understand why :D
And then there's the IJJF. And then some other Saudi Arabian oil money backed operation?
Does IBJJF have any hope for coming more legitimate within IOC?
Let me explain - in Estonia if one would apply for any Country/State benefits or recognitions for sports for a sports club one needs to be a member of the country Olympic Committee. To be a member you have to do a recognised sport. For a sport to be recognised, the main governing body of the sport has to be a member of the IOC.
So for example in regards my operations in my own country (which is where the clubs income is generated) getting currently certified by IBJJF would mean nothing :(
There are other worldwide organisations trying to regulate jiu-jitsu. FILA used to do a pretty decent job but they had to refocus on the wrestling and while UWW still holds "grappling" I don't think it will ever be anything else than fringe - mains sports and main people in UWW and national bodies see it as a threat to "classical" wrestling. And to be honest - I kinda understand why :D
And then there's the IJJF. And then some other Saudi Arabian oil money backed operation?
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Another poster had pinged me with a rumor that the Olympic committees were considering including no gi submission grappling and taking out Greco Roman.
In the first place, while I would be delighted to see no gi submission grappling included,
I would be very disappointed to see Greco Roman go.
And, I can't see the general public audience being more interested to watch guard pulling and butt scooting
instead of beautiful and awesome looking high amplitude throws from Greco Roman, which are some of the most exciting things to see in the grappling world, even for lay people.
In the first place, while I would be delighted to see no gi submission grappling included,
I would be very disappointed to see Greco Roman go.
And, I can't see the general public audience being more interested to watch guard pulling and butt scooting
instead of beautiful and awesome looking high amplitude throws from Greco Roman, which are some of the most exciting things to see in the grappling world, even for lay people.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Have you watched greco recently :D ?
Yes, the olympic highlights look great but over all...
But I don't think it will ever happen this way. The greco is historically too strong in most wrestling countries and that was what FILA to UWW change was all about - to keep the classic styles.
Yes, the olympic highlights look great but over all...
But I don't think it will ever happen this way. The greco is historically too strong in most wrestling countries and that was what FILA to UWW change was all about - to keep the classic styles.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Jorgen, I hope you are right.
Watching Greco roman highlights is indeed one my favorite viewing pleasures when it comes to grappling.
And, I am in the camp that feels like Greco Roman is a wonderful foundation for MMA,
especially when coupled with striking training and submission training.
As a matter of fact, if I could get a double espresso every afternoon while I watched 15 minutes of Greco highlights,
And I could get in a little more hunting and fishing,
I might be living my ideal life.
Not necessarily my wife's idea of what my ideal life should be....
But mine.
Watching Greco roman highlights is indeed one my favorite viewing pleasures when it comes to grappling.
And, I am in the camp that feels like Greco Roman is a wonderful foundation for MMA,
especially when coupled with striking training and submission training.
As a matter of fact, if I could get a double espresso every afternoon while I watched 15 minutes of Greco highlights,
And I could get in a little more hunting and fishing,
I might be living my ideal life.
Not necessarily my wife's idea of what my ideal life should be....
But mine.
DBBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I've heard the same rumor about replacing Greco with Grappling from someone with pretty strong Greco ties. I'd note that guard pulling is a takedown for your opponent if they maintain top position for 3 seconds after, and the fast action and scoring criteria encourage more takedowns as well.
I'd also note, Greco isn't the kind of classic style the UWW switch seemed to be to protect. It's relatively modern, having been created in 1848 (it is not, as some will assume, the style of wrestling that the Greeks did at the Olympics of yore, but rather was named to evoke that). It is fun to watch, but it's viewership numbers have long been in decline and the IOC was threatening to axe it since at least 2008 so there is strong reason for UWW to drop it as an Olympic sport.
UAEJJF working with JJIF and the SJJIF are the two groups currently dueling for IOC recognition as the governing body for BJJ as a sport.
Edit: fix autocorrect typo
I'd also note, Greco isn't the kind of classic style the UWW switch seemed to be to protect. It's relatively modern, having been created in 1848 (it is not, as some will assume, the style of wrestling that the Greeks did at the Olympics of yore, but rather was named to evoke that). It is fun to watch, but it's viewership numbers have long been in decline and the IOC was threatening to axe it since at least 2008 so there is strong reason for UWW to drop it as an Olympic sport.
UAEJJF working with JJIF and the SJJIF are the two groups currently dueling for IOC recognition as the governing body for BJJ as a sport.
Edit: fix autocorrect typo
Edited 6 year(s) ago
SCBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
why does it have to be a similar sport to go. they are two different things.. They can get rid of something like badminton for goodness sakes... the point is to draw in more people and not take away from it.. BUt if the do add grappling they will need to have a totatlly different committee than the IBJJF..
DBBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Wrestling has already lost its spot as a Core Sport and per interviews with Neil Adams regarding judo rules changes the IOC was pretty clear that differentiation of sports is important to them.
As the IOC tries to consolidate the number of sports, while keeping the included sports "relevant", they're likely to remove any sport that's too similar to something else more popular. Popular in this context means viewership numbers, not participation numbers.
As the IOC tries to consolidate the number of sports, while keeping the included sports "relevant", they're likely to remove any sport that's too similar to something else more popular. Popular in this context means viewership numbers, not participation numbers.
![Slideyfoot [jun]](userimg/5e25cf311adfd.jpg){kind=small}
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Does IBJJF have any hope for coming more legitimate within IOC?
I would be very concerned if the IBJJF got official recognition from the IOC as a governing body, without making some major changes first. Most importantly, a governing body should in no way be run for profit, as that seriously undermines its ability to operate in the interests of its members, as opposed to the interest of its shareholders/owners. I don't trust the IBJJF at all, in its present form.
The UK has a proper governing body, the UKBJJA, which is non-profit and follows the other things you would expect from a governing body. They've made considerable strides in getting recognition from the official sporting bodies in the UK. So, I'd aim for something like that in Estonia, rather than hoping the IBJJF gets its claws into the IOC. ;)
https://www.ukbjja.org/
The UK has a proper governing body, the UKBJJA, which is non-profit and follows the other things you would expect from a governing body. They've made considerable strides in getting recognition from the official sporting bodies in the UK. So, I'd aim for something like that in Estonia, rather than hoping the IBJJF gets its claws into the IOC. ;)
https://www.ukbjja.org/
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I don't think the IOC would play ball with the IBJJF.
They might consult, or emulate the good parts.
But the for profit status would probably be a deal killer.
They might consult, or emulate the good parts.
But the for profit status would probably be a deal killer.
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Yeah, there are a lot of reasons I don't see the IOC getting involved with BJJ at all. I've written a few articles about it over the years: there was a longer one I did in Jiu JItsu Style Magazine, but I am assuming at least some of what I wrote way back might still be relevant (though it is getting quite out of date now, 10 years old): http://www.slideyfoot.com[...]mpics.html
HLPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Does any one have first hand contact to people at IOC?
I don't know about BJJ or submission grappling, but I think there is a strong will to ad a second wrestling event for women. And what I've heard, there is a strong movement to add beach wrestling for women.
I don't know about BJJ or submission grappling, but I think there is a strong will to ad a second wrestling event for women. And what I've heard, there is a strong movement to add beach wrestling for women.
DBBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Adding wrestling events and beach wrestling would go through UWW rather than directly to the IOC. They'd be the body making the case to the IOC and having the sports apply for inclusion.
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I'd love to see the IOC add sub wrestling, that would be cool. Then BJJers could compete in that event, without the risk of fucking up our sport.
JPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
In Canada, BJJ is considered Prize Fighting and therefore illegal to run tournaments, unless recognized by the IOC or having a recognized governing body. Try finding a tournament in Quebec. It's killing the sport.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Jon Nordland,
I took two of my students to an IBJJF tournament in Montreal a few years ago.
Is this a recent change?
I took two of my students to an IBJJF tournament in Montreal a few years ago.
Is this a recent change?
JPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
They started this in February of 2017 and it hasn't changed since. All competitors have had to go out of province to compete or do it at unofficial tournaments in house; that's what we do at Revolution Team. It's sad, but people need to lobby the government if they want it to change. I think the big problem is that individual clubs have too much going on to fight the system, which is what province/state level organizations and the IOC bring to the table. My coach is trying to keep his head above water, so I don't think he has the time to take this on, even though it's in the BJJ community's interests.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Wow.
I’m sorry to hear that.
I’m sorry to hear that.
ALBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I can't remember who it was, but I read an interview years ago where someone stated that the most logical way for BJJ to get into the Olympics would be as a sub-division of Judo. They asserted that the similarities on the ground and the very lineage would make BJJ unlikely to ever get in on it's own, but that if the BJJ community ever "embraced" its roots in Judo then it wouldn't just make sense to be a Judo division, but logistically it should be a relatively simple step. The route would obviously preclude and exclude the IBJJF or any other organization from controlling it, however, so this same person said for that reason alone, it would probably never happen.
I wish I could remember who the interview was with, but it made perfect sense to me at the time, and still does.
I wish I could remember who the interview was with, but it made perfect sense to me at the time, and still does.
HLPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I think bjj is a difficult sport for a viewer. It also a small sport and not very popular with kids. Is Olympics really an option?
DBBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Judo has a newer Ne Waza ruleset which functionally tries to target a BJJ crowd, but it's limitations and scoring are weird, so I have strong doubts it will go anywhere or that the IJF will push for it's inclusion in even lower level international events.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Hey Jon, I think Ontario is still doing BJJ tournaments.
You might want to check.
You might want to check.
DBBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Here are Judo Canada's rules for the events: https://www.judocanada.or[...]018_EN.pdf
While there was some initial hype two years ago when it came out, there doesn't seem to be much if any traction in other areas for it. It's got all the things you may recognize from judo - osaekomi points, heavy restrictions on allowed submissions - but it also gives 2 points for just about any other positive action. Oh, and they start from their knees... Video of the rules: https://www.dailymotion.c[...]eo/x6hjug1
It's my understanding that while Judo Canada is one of the areas holding matches for this, it was the intent of the IJF to test the waters with some areas like this.
There's also the "Kosen" rules that the USJA is hoping to hold actual events for in 2020. To me, this is the better ruleset for judo focused on groundwork between the two, though it is limited itself: https://www.usja.net/comm[...]ttee/kosen
While there was some initial hype two years ago when it came out, there doesn't seem to be much if any traction in other areas for it. It's got all the things you may recognize from judo - osaekomi points, heavy restrictions on allowed submissions - but it also gives 2 points for just about any other positive action. Oh, and they start from their knees... Video of the rules: https://www.dailymotion.c[...]eo/x6hjug1
It's my understanding that while Judo Canada is one of the areas holding matches for this, it was the intent of the IJF to test the waters with some areas like this.
There's also the "Kosen" rules that the USJA is hoping to hold actual events for in 2020. To me, this is the better ruleset for judo focused on groundwork between the two, though it is limited itself: https://www.usja.net/comm[...]ttee/kosen
JPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Thanks William,
It’s where most of us go.
It’s where most of us go.
HLPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I think bjj is a difficult sport for a viewer. It also a small sport and not very popular with kids. Is Olympics really an option?
