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John Danaher- Feet to Floor -Thoughts

5 year(s) ago • 3542 views • 21 replies

Chris Baker
Chris Baker
Brown beltVerified573 forum posts3175/700
5 year(s) ago
Okay, I was wondering if anyone has watched it and what your thoughts are. I've currently not ordered a copy, but I have watched his two hour podcast with Bernardo Faria on the topic and I'm personally a bit sceptical on the topic. I'm not wanting to deny Mr Danaher's ability as a coach, but I'm not sure I agree with some of the points he was making. For example, in the podcast, Mr Danaher was placing a lot of emphasis on Ankle Picks as the best Takedown for BJJ due to how familiar a Jiujiteiro would be with the technique and it would require little adjustment. Out of Curiosity, I took a look at the Gordon Ryan fights in ADCC 2017 and 2019 I could find and of the 10 fights I was able to watch (they're not all in YouTube), I couldn't find a single example of Mr Ryan successfully performing an Ankle Pick. In fact the takedowns he had the most success with where Sumi Gaeshi and a Single Leg (again of the examples I found). The Sumi Geashi I find especially interesting as on a logical level, I personally think that Sacrifice throws make more sense in BJJ. While many of us will be familiar with ankle picks from ground fighting, we're going to be more familiar on the whole with pulling guard, or as my Judo Teacher calls it "Crappy Sacrifice Throws", and the jump would seem.

So, what are the thoughts of the people who have watched the Instructional? I'm particularly interested in the opinion of those of you who also do Judo. Just please bear in mind, I'm not doubting that Mr Danaher is a great BJJ coach. And the results of the DDS speak for themselves.
Brad Neumyer
Brad Neumyer
Purple beltVerified128 forum posts1515/400
5 year(s) ago
~not a judoka~

I've watched the first disc of FTF Volume 1 and about half of the second disc. I will say it is very good and Mr. Danaher presents a lot of very good knowledge on the subject. Compared to his other DVDs it is a lot tougher to get through, as I am putting a lot of time in to note taking & reviewing vs. watching other DVDs and taking them to the mats right away. Of course, part of this may be due to the tendency to avoid training on the feet very often.

With respect to comparing the technical repertoire of DDS members in competition as they primarily compete no gi when the Feet To Floor series is targeted at gi-based techniques (there is a heavy emphasis on gripping/grip breaking, for example).
Tatu Piispanen
Tatu Piispanen
Black beltVerified1355 forum posts10295/1000
5 year(s) ago
Not seen it but my thoughts are that it’s quite expensive. Buying the 3 volumes of the Gi series costs $591. (Of course BJJ Fanatics has deals often but still.)

Soon there will be similar set of No-Gi and buying both would cost $1,182 total. :)
Chris Baker
Chris BakerOP
Brown beltVerified573 forum posts3175/700
5 year(s) ago
Compared to his other DVDs it is a lot tougher to get through, as I am putting a lot of time in to note taking & reviewing vs. watching other DVDs and taking them to the mats right away.
It's harder to get through!?!?!?! Oh my God!!!
Deepu
Deepu
Black beltVerified547 forum posts6410/1000
5 year(s) ago
Is this whole prefacing a name with "Mr" thing a result of watching too much Danaher videos?
Edited 5 year(s) ago
Randy
Randy
Black belt 1st degreeVerified267 forum posts3345/1000
5 year(s) ago
Sometimes Danaher drops knowledge bombs that blow me away. Other times I find myself completely annoyed by his general mannerisms and Morpheus-like way of explaining things. No disrespect intended, as obviously he's a wealth of knowledge and has brought up some of the best competitive grapplers BJJ has ever seen.

I'm far from an expert on the topic, but I do like ankle picks. I like single-legs more, and bodylocks are great too. I'll say this though, I feel like there's a definitive distinction between jiu-jitsoka's that are geared more toward Judo-style takedowns, and those that prefer wrestling-style takedowns. I belong more to the latter group. Neither is wrong, it's just based on your personal style and preference.
Chris Baker
Chris BakerOP
Brown beltVerified573 forum posts3175/700
5 year(s) ago
Other times I find myself completely annoyed by his general mannerisms and Morpheus-like way of explaining things
I definitely get that. I'm also a bit frustrated that he tends to repeat himself a lot. In his Passing Video, there were several sections where I thought I accidentally rewound the video because he was basically saying the same thing he said a minute ago. :)

I hadn't thought about the Wrestling vs Judo angle. I'm a Judoka and prefer the judo takedowns, so that's probably skewing my perspective.
Chris Baker
Chris BakerOP
Brown beltVerified573 forum posts3175/700
5 year(s) ago
Is this whole prefacing a name with 'Mr' thing a result of watching too much Danaher videos?
No, I'm just german. Calling people I don't know and have never met by their first name is strange for me. All that familiarity and pleasantness seems wired.
Gerald Fabrot
Gerald Fabrot
Black beltVerified149 forum posts1765/1000
5 year(s) ago
Haven't watched the whole series, but I'll probably get in when it's on a daily deal + coupons on BJJ Fanatics. (I check... very often)

Ankle Pick with Gi grips works great for BJJ; low risk (armbar if you stiff arm too much and can't read it coming), can work on either foot if they avoid the first one.

I've incorporated his take on the Osoto-gari,; Osoto-Otoshi / Drop-Osoto : our main coaches likes it too and we teach it to beginners now : Danaher makes a great point that it's easier to learn and perform than a perfect Osoto-Gari, and you land in a better position for newaza to boost.

here at 21:00
https://youtu.be/Swoni-e1CFg?t=1267

this 42min video is packed with good stuff

If you can suspend disbelief on the Morpheus/Yoda persona, Danaher has so much good stuff to teach in my experience.
I've got 10 of his 17 series, and I'll get more in time.
Chris Baker
Chris BakerOP
Brown beltVerified573 forum posts3175/700
5 year(s) ago
Ankle Pick with Gi grips works great for BJJ; low risk (armbar if you stiff arm too much and can't read it coming), can work on either foot if they avoid the first one.
Actually,this is kinda my point with ankle picks. I'm not saying they're bad, but as you said, mess them up and you're in danger of getting submitted. On the other hand, I could do absolutely the worst Sumi Gaeshi in the history of BJJ and the worst thing that happens is the opponent is in my guard. Doesn't really get less low risk than that. Add to that that most Jiujiteiros will be more used to the basic motion as we tend to pull guard anyway, incorporating it into our stand up game is less of a hassle.
Chris Baker
Chris BakerOP
Brown beltVerified573 forum posts3175/700
5 year(s) ago
A judoka gives his (largely positive) feedback on it here. https://www.reddit.com/r/[...]y_danaher/ Edit: Although it's worth noting that in general there appears to be a mixed response among judo guys to some of Danaher's takedown ideas. https://www.reddit.com/r/[...]soto_gari/
Thanks. I've seen a lot of these comments in both the Judo and Sambo community. Oddly enough, this was one of the more ... civil discussions on his instructional I've seen. I lurked on a thread in a Sambo Forum and things were a bit more heated. :)
Eric Laporte
Eric Laporte
Black belt 1st degreePending57 forum posts0/1000
5 year(s) ago
I have 7 of fanaher's instructionnals.

Back
Pins
Leglocks
Kimura
Triangle
Open guard
Retention

Im hesitating for the same reason mentionned here often, i never see dds students throw anyone with gi techs.

On the other hand, all his other gi dvds are very good and im sure there is knowledge to be gained. I will say that i do feel the no gi are more advanced overall than the gi.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
Ruadhán Macfadden
Ruadhán Macfadden
Brown beltVerified73 forum posts5675/700
5 year(s) ago
Ask and you shall receive. https://www.facebook.com/[...]149045427/
That was pretty entertaining, thanks. I have to say though, as fun as it is to see people just rip into Danaher's affected pseudo-genius persona left and right, I mostly appreciate the more nuanced view from Sambo Steve in that thread. Pasting it here for anyone who doesn't have Facebook.

"I have less issue with it than I would have expected. It is pretty much what I would expect from a non-thrower, teaching low risk takedowns, for a ruleset that does not encourage higher risk throws, for a community not really committed to learning them properly. He is presenting his favored takedowns as a quick fix as it were - which they are not. There may also be a false learning curve as most of the folks they will face don't understand throws, and will likely get caught much essier.. But, this same throw ignorance is what allows throwers to achieve some higher velocity throws on BJJ guys that they may not be able to in their own sport. Regarding his "quick fix" positioning, he himself says these are techniques he wants people to "master" in 3-6 months - which IMO is still not a lot of time to learn and internalize footwork, gripping concepts, balance, etc., even for ankle picks and drags.

I can't say I disagree with his general concept of assessing risk areas for the particulars of BJJ rules. And also his concept that sweeps can be re-engjneered for throws (I have been saying this for years). Any coach worth their weight in salt should do sport specific assessment. At NYCS we also assess what throws to use based on the value & risk assessment of the various rulesets we compete in AND who we will likely compete against. And this is where Danaher's inherrant problem lies IMO.

The main difference in our understanding of this topic (in my opinion) comes from being a "throwing" club and coach that trains students to cross-compete as a necessity. I feel I (and others in my situation) have a much different and more realistic grasp of what concerns arise as a thrower in BJJ - and how to successfully adapt throws for BJJ. Any sambo coach in this country needs to adapt. We are the minority, and as such, we compete with the majority most of the time. Aside from sambo competitions (which are rare in the US), we compete in BJJ, nogi, sub only, judo, combat wrestling, shuai jiao, etc., whatever we can. But, the vast majority of our opponents are BJJ based. We MUST adapt our throws for those rule sets.

As one would expect, Danaher's perceptions are flipped: he is a non-thrower trying to teach non-throwers to use throws (or takedowns) in BJJ. His understanding will be limited. Many of the risks he discusses are ubiquitous to all rookie throwers. The difference being training them properly greatly mitigates those risks, and we aspire to be non-rookie throwers. Many of the "higher risk" throws have incredible value in BJJ competition, even if there is no point value assigned to them. We don't aspire to have dumbed down throwing skill.

He clearly is not higher educated regarding throws and betrays his lack of knowledge in many subtle and not so subtle ways - at times his stance, at times his entries, footwork, his grips (or lack of attention to grips), and some of his percieved deficits. My biggest problem with the video was the lack of attention to gripping on his favored techniques, but the pointing out of gripping difficulties on his unfavored techniques. In fact the same gripping concerns exist in all of them.

In the end it seems like the perfect product to teach low risk takedown to a community who generally (not all obviously) does not aspire to be better than rookie throwers. Maybe the fact that he is focusing on low risk "simple" throws is equally about what he can competently teach, as much as it is about sport specificity.

This harkens back to my old 2016 Grappling Central Podcast appearance where I suggested that throws would be the next BJJ hot topic, but unlike leg locks learning throws would require a large shift in training methods. The stuff he seems to be focusing on is as close to teaching throwing as you can get without changing how one trains."
Christian Graugart
Christian Graugart
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4323 forum posts39315/1000
5 year(s) ago
When the coach wears a loose t-shirt tucked into his shorts, you know it's legit.
white tshirt in gray sweatpants also approved
Chris Baker
Chris BakerOP
Brown beltVerified573 forum posts3175/700
5 year(s) ago
I mostly appreciate the more nuanced view from Sambo Steve in that thread.
I really loved this section too, bit I pretty much love everything he's said on this topic in general. He's also the guy who made me interested in Sambo in the first place. Didn't even know what Sambo was before I heard him on the Hiya Podcast.

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