RegisterLog in
Main forum

Submissions in kids tournaments. No bueno.

5 year(s) ago • 502 views • 12 replies

Daniël Bertina
Daniël Bertina
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified880 forum posts15560/1000
5 year(s) ago
People.

As a dad of 2 little kids, my stomach turns when the algorithm serves me competition footage of kids hyperextending joints & strangling each other.

Training them is one thing, but allowing them to be applied with competition intensity is just irresponsible, in my opinion. It's almost as disturbing to watch as kids muay thai...

Judo doesn't allow strangles in competition until 13 of age, and armlocks until 16.

My daughter (7) did her first judo comp a while back. The only way to win by ippon was a throw into a 20 second pin. Seemed totally safe and fun.

Kids tournaments should be throws, sweeps, passes & reversals only.

Change my mind.
John A. Byrne
John A. Byrne
Black beltVerified1013 forum posts6370/1000
5 year(s) ago
People. As a dad of 2 little kids, my stomach turns when the algorithm serves me competition footage of kids hyperextending joints & strangling each other. Training them is one thing, but allowing them to be applied with competition intensity is just irresponsible, in my opinion. It's almost as disturbing to watch as kids muay thai... Judo doesn't allow strangles in competition until 13 of age, and armlocks until 16. My daughter (7) did her first judo comp a while back. The only way to win by ippon was a throw into a 20 second pin. Seemed totally safe and fun. Kids tournaments should be throws, sweeps, passes & reversals only. Change my mind.
I agree. I have an 18-year-old now who competes, but when I coach the kid's in our program, or him when he was younger, all comps do not allow subs till like 7-8 and even then chokes are it, any armlock etc is not allowed to be extended at all- if it's good for the Ref to see it could do damage, the match is immediately stopped (in the States where we compete)
For smaller kids, younger kids, it's positional work only.

I'd rather err on the side of caution than have a kid either not tap, or not tap quick enough etc.

Adults are a different deal though...
Edited 5 year(s) ago
Ray Robles
Ray Robles
Black beltVerified104 forum posts3890/1000
5 year(s) ago
This is going to sound weird, but I don't think that kids before the age of 8 should compete in tournaments. I do feel that kids should be able to execute submissions, and I feel that there should be better reffing for these divisions. I think that the kids who are truly proficient at catching submissions before this age are an exception rather than the norm. I was the national director for the Newbreed tournament for years (I was the second director, prior to that role I was the head official, I worked the first 5 years of that event nationally). I don't like "no subs for kids", because from a tournament logistical standpoint, you have 100 kids doing 2 minute no sub/points only matches, it truly can extend the day (and you know when you the competitor, or the parent are sitting and wondering why it's taking so long.... these kinds of matches are why).

The purpose of training is to get to the dominant position and stop your opponent via sub, so for the schools that train in that (and not just "do this for points and hold"), I want to see that kids have the knowledge on how to finish a fight. Like I touched on earlier, this means that as soon as a child gets into a position to execute the finish and starts to attack it, the ref needs to be cognizant and stop the cranking of the sub before it gets there (separate rant, stop using young blue belt refs, and lazy purple/brown/black belt refs). Let those kids work their finishes. As the approach 11 years old, let them start defending subs for a 3 count before stopping (IF they are actually defending, and not laying there doing nothing), teens... fight out of that shit LOL.

Side bar, I can do a book on the hilarious stories/situations I had to deal with as a Tournament Director, so much hilarity
Daniël Bertina
Daniël BertinaOP
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified880 forum posts15560/1000
5 year(s) ago
Good points.

In my kids case, the term tournament is misleading. It was more a kind of playful, fun round robin thing.
Cosimo Carone
Cosimo Carone
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified546 forum posts24340/1000
5 year(s) ago
People. As a dad of 2 little kids, my stomach turns when the algorithm serves me competition footage of kids hyperextending joints & strangling each other. Training them is one thing, but allowing them to be applied with competition intensity is just irresponsible, in my opinion. It's almost as disturbing to watch as kids muay thai... Judo doesn't allow strangles in competition until 13 of age, and armlocks until 16. My daughter (7) did her first judo comp a while back. The only way to win by ippon was a throw into a 20 second pin. Seemed totally safe and fun. Kids tournaments should be throws, sweeps, passes & reversals only. Change my mind.
Don't make comparisons with Thai children fighting, it's not the same, for them there is nothing violent, it's their culture
Daniël Bertina
Daniël BertinaOP
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified880 forum posts15560/1000
5 year(s) ago
Don't make comparisons with Thai children fighting, it's not the same, for them there is nothing violent, it's their culture
So their culture prevents them from head trauma and broken bodies before they reach adulthood?

You're not making any sense.
Cosimo Carone
Cosimo Carone
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified546 forum posts24340/1000
5 year(s) ago
At that age, they don't have the power to cause trauma, and we're nobody to judge their culture! We would do well to shut up and speak only of what we really know, not by heart
Daniël Bertina
Daniël BertinaOP
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified880 forum posts15560/1000
5 year(s) ago
Based on the reply above, I really hope you don't teach kids.

But again, back on topic. I would like to hear from other instructors.

Cosimo Carone
Cosimo Carone
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified546 forum posts24340/1000
5 year(s) ago
It is evident that you understand very little about muay thai. I'm sorry for you, but I've been teaching muay thai to kids for decades, and no one has the trauma you brag about. Lol
Cosimo Carone
Cosimo Carone
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified546 forum posts24340/1000
5 year(s) ago
Regarding the sporting regulations of this or other discipline, I think that if you want to play a sport you have to accept everything about it. Nobody forces you to make your kids practice martial arts, that's why there is ping pong etc. etc.
Cosimo Carone
Cosimo Carone
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified546 forum posts24340/1000
5 year(s) ago
The issue is not training. The issue is competition.
All right, in that case practice without competing. It is not compulsory to be agonists.
Cosimo Carone
Cosimo Carone
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified546 forum posts24340/1000
5 year(s) ago
If the whole community does not like the existing rules, all competitions should be avoided. In that case, you would see how the various federations and organizations would change the rules because without participants they don't make money

Post a reply

Add a quote
 
Changes saved
Success
An error occured
Required fields missing
This person is already on Beltchecker.