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Do MMA fights count as competition matches?
6 year(s) ago • 509 views • 28 replies
EWBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Hello all, curious to Get an opinion as to wether or not pro and ammy MMA fights count as competition matches. Or does it only refer to super fights?
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
MMA should count more, imo.
HBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I put mine in the competition area, also my cage grappling matches (single matches)
JVBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
There should be a box for identification..bjj, mma, judo, karate, fighting ju-jitsu, sambo, wrestling .. chess, pc games tournaments etc.
OHBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
i'll go with Mr Murphy, should count more
...being able to submit someone allowed to strike you must be something :-D
...being able to submit someone allowed to strike you must be something :-D
HBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I did mention MMA in mine, but also listed win by TKO
EWBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Honestly as I'm looking at people's stuff they're counting every match from every and any contest. So I suppose by that logic any and all matches count.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Well it's your profile so you can technically put whatever you want :)
EWBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
@Christian , valid point I guess I didn't know if there were community standards or I guess a set thing that counted as whatever, I mean other than it being valid
EWBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
@Christian , valid point I guess I didn't know if there were community standards or I guess a set thing that counted as whatever, I mean other than it being valid
JVBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Well it's your profile so you can technically put whatever you want :)
It depends on what we want to have in the statistics. I recommend adding a match type field: BJJ / grappling / mma / judo / wrestling / other :)
JPBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
This is a BJJ belt verification site. Not a tracker for MMA fights. That’s what something like sherdog is for. So, I’d say just grappling matches.
JPBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
As you wish it.
Jiu-Jitsu of the Gracie line was always measured against three indicators of fitness.
Self-Defense.
Vale Tudo.
Sport Submission Grappling.
Helio Gracie himself wandered over to our bull pit, while I was a blue belt at one of the first Mundials in the Tijuca Tenis Clube in Rio De Janeiro and said, "This sport is not Jiu-Jitsu".
He did so, wearing a blue belt, in statement.
Just as he had seen the transformation of Kodokan Judo into a sport, away from a Self-Defense practice,
so too, was this his concern regarding Jiu-Jitsu.
Along those lines,
The less rules, the better.
Jiu-Jitsu without striking is often beautiful to behold.
But, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu was designed to apply in striking environments, or non-striking environments.
In real life, and in sport.
I may disagree with Helio Gracie about other things.
But, I must agree on this.
Jiu-Jitsu of the Gracie line was always measured against three indicators of fitness.
Self-Defense.
Vale Tudo.
Sport Submission Grappling.
Helio Gracie himself wandered over to our bull pit, while I was a blue belt at one of the first Mundials in the Tijuca Tenis Clube in Rio De Janeiro and said, "This sport is not Jiu-Jitsu".
He did so, wearing a blue belt, in statement.
Just as he had seen the transformation of Kodokan Judo into a sport, away from a Self-Defense practice,
so too, was this his concern regarding Jiu-Jitsu.
Along those lines,
The less rules, the better.
Jiu-Jitsu without striking is often beautiful to behold.
But, Gracie Jiu-Jitsu was designed to apply in striking environments, or non-striking environments.
In real life, and in sport.
I may disagree with Helio Gracie about other things.
But, I must agree on this.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
If you disagree with me,
I will understand.
But, at least I am consistent.
This is the same thing I wrote in the 1996 Karate insider article that I co-wrote, that I posted on my profile, with me in the picture getting choked by Marcio Simas.
At least, if I am old, I have remained consistent in my view.
And do so sincerely, and honestly.
Besides, Demian Maia's Jiu-Jitsu speaks for itself,
and I will let his example argue for me, as a modern example.
I will understand.
But, at least I am consistent.
This is the same thing I wrote in the 1996 Karate insider article that I co-wrote, that I posted on my profile, with me in the picture getting choked by Marcio Simas.
At least, if I am old, I have remained consistent in my view.
And do so sincerely, and honestly.
Besides, Demian Maia's Jiu-Jitsu speaks for itself,
and I will let his example argue for me, as a modern example.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
JPBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I bring that up, because it’s an example of individuals being ranked base on their successes in MMA not Jiu-Jitsu. I guarantee either individual listed above does not have the knowledge base for their respective ranks.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Can he compete against Black Belts under our rulesets, or lack of rulesets?
That is a check.
Can he teach our room useful things for our rulesets, or lack of rulesets?
That is a check.
There is a lot precedent for this, you know.
The original Gracie Brothers recruited tough guys and catch wrestlers and never apologized for it.
Why should we?
That is a check.
Can he teach our room useful things for our rulesets, or lack of rulesets?
That is a check.
There is a lot precedent for this, you know.
The original Gracie Brothers recruited tough guys and catch wrestlers and never apologized for it.
Why should we?
JPBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
So, really, how much bearing does an MMA match have on an individuals rank? Is it really that effective enough to be used as a Guage of one’s proficiency in Jiu-Jitsu? What if that match never went to the ground? There are far too many variables in an MMA match that I personally feel would not be a great indicator of Jiu-Jitsu proficiency since there is the very high possibility of no Jiu-Jitsu even being utilized. IE a stand up striking match that seem to be what Cain and Daniel seem to have more of in their careers. But yet they’re promoted to brown and black belts.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Put another way,
What should Kimura's rank be, in our system?
Why did the Confederation award Yukio Nakai a rank?
What should Ben Askren's rank be?
What should Josh Barnett's rank be?
I should be inclined to let them wear any belt they like in my room,
in particular, if they should consent to teach us, or grace us with a roll.
But, if you feel that you can take their belts off them,
Then that is your business, if it pleases you to try.
What should Kimura's rank be, in our system?
Why did the Confederation award Yukio Nakai a rank?
What should Ben Askren's rank be?
What should Josh Barnett's rank be?
I should be inclined to let them wear any belt they like in my room,
in particular, if they should consent to teach us, or grace us with a roll.
But, if you feel that you can take their belts off them,
Then that is your business, if it pleases you to try.
JPBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Can he compete against Black Belts under our rulesets, or lack of rulesets? That is a check. Can he teach our room useful things for our rulesets, or lack of rulesets? That is a check. There is a lot precedent for this, you know. The original Gracie Brothers recruited tough guys and catch wrestlers and never apologized for it. Why should we?
Again, I definitely don’t disagree with you, but... Just because they can compete with that belt level or show someone A thing or two, doesn’t mean they are at that belt level in Jiu-Jitsu. Heck, a blue belt can show someone a trick or two, they can going in and compete with a black belt. But doesn’t mean their skill level and knowledge base is that of a Black or Brown Belt.
Just like Kerr sleeping Mario Sperry in ADCC! Just because he slept him, does that mean he’s automatically a Black Belt? Absolutely not! He so odors today have the knowledge base of a black belt.
Just like Kerr sleeping Mario Sperry in ADCC! Just because he slept him, does that mean he’s automatically a Black Belt? Absolutely not! He so odors today have the knowledge base of a black belt.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
But a consistent ability to perform is a compelling argument, isn't it.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Put another way,
Why would I ever not want those mat monsters in the upper echelon divisions of our tournaments...?
Why would I ever not want those mat monsters in the upper echelon divisions of our tournaments...?
JPBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Kimura? Black Belt in judo, and depends on how much time he has put into Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. Really, that just my point! Time put into the art like the rest of us. Not a belt awarded on accolades unrelated to Jiu-Jitsu.
Yuki Nakai worked for that belt. He wasn’t just given his belt. He traveled, trained, and competed in Brazil. He put his work in.
Ben Askren? I’m pretty sure that guy gave himself his belts. Lol. At least that’s the general consensus.
Josh? Has he really ever put on a gi and trained for any period of time in one?
Yuki Nakai worked for that belt. He wasn’t just given his belt. He traveled, trained, and competed in Brazil. He put his work in.
Ben Askren? I’m pretty sure that guy gave himself his belts. Lol. At least that’s the general consensus.
Josh? Has he really ever put on a gi and trained for any period of time in one?
JPBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
But a consistent ability to perform is a compelling argument, isn't it.
Of course. Very compelling. Which is why I agree with most everything you state. Personally, I simply don’t let successes in other sports dictate the level of my athletes.
JPBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Put another way, Why would I ever not want those mat monsters in the upper echelon divisions of our tournaments...?
It sucks. I’ve come across it twice. I had to go against Diogo Ferreira (Current UFC Athlete) at American Nationals (Lost a close match in the finals. Made a dumb mistake). And I’ve had a super fight match against Drew Fickett with a 102 degree fever (Arm Barred him).
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Mr. Jay.
You and I may disagree, but disagreement is generally healthy.
As for me, I never mind a grappler crowning himself by leaving a trail of submitted, talented, and credentialed grapplers in his wake.
Napoleon set a fine precedent in that regard.
I do not speak of those who use words to fool the gullible,
I speak of men of steel, who earn their spurs by conquest against the best that we have to offer.
As Renzo said of Sakuraba, and I paraphrase, this is Japan's Gracie.
And, I don't care if his lineage is different than mine.
You and I may disagree, but disagreement is generally healthy.
As for me, I never mind a grappler crowning himself by leaving a trail of submitted, talented, and credentialed grapplers in his wake.
Napoleon set a fine precedent in that regard.
I do not speak of those who use words to fool the gullible,
I speak of men of steel, who earn their spurs by conquest against the best that we have to offer.
As Renzo said of Sakuraba, and I paraphrase, this is Japan's Gracie.
And, I don't care if his lineage is different than mine.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
KSBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Self defense(combat)>sport.
I enjoy both though.
I enjoy both though.
KKBrown beltPending
6 year(s) ago
Part of the reason we put our match history up here is to be measured by our peers. Most MMA fighters I know train BJJ, but don’t compete in local tournaments due to cost, risk of injury etc. Them uploading their MMA matches let us see them implement their grappling in a difficult arena. It doesn’t have to be the sole thing to measure with, but it should be included.
KBBrown beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I listed my MMA fights after seeing this thread. I competed in MMA for many years, and really didnt get into gi bjj until a decade into my fighting career. After retiring in MMA, I am just now getting into competing in Gi and no gi BJJ competitions.
As for ranking as a result of MMA success, I totally agree with Jay. I know a lot of MMA fighters who have achieved a rank in BJJ having not really done a lot of gi BJJ. In fact, a lot of those guys dont do well in the room with strictly BJJ guys. I competed at the UFC level as a blue belt, and I know now, not a very good one. My road through the rankings has been long and slow, but I do not mind it at all.
Ive worn a brown belt now for about 5 years, and have competed and won an IBJJF World No Gi Gold in the masters division at brown. Im just along for the ride now, and dont really care what someone's belt color is. Ill learn from them and train with them.
Anyway, I listed my MMA fights cause it was kind of a trip down memory lane, and I wanted to. I think this beltchecker thing is about as honest and as pure a way of "verifying" belt rankings, but ultimately, it only matters as much as you think it does for yourself.
As for ranking as a result of MMA success, I totally agree with Jay. I know a lot of MMA fighters who have achieved a rank in BJJ having not really done a lot of gi BJJ. In fact, a lot of those guys dont do well in the room with strictly BJJ guys. I competed at the UFC level as a blue belt, and I know now, not a very good one. My road through the rankings has been long and slow, but I do not mind it at all.
Ive worn a brown belt now for about 5 years, and have competed and won an IBJJF World No Gi Gold in the masters division at brown. Im just along for the ride now, and dont really care what someone's belt color is. Ill learn from them and train with them.
Anyway, I listed my MMA fights cause it was kind of a trip down memory lane, and I wanted to. I think this beltchecker thing is about as honest and as pure a way of "verifying" belt rankings, but ultimately, it only matters as much as you think it does for yourself.
JJBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Again, I definitely don’t disagree with you, but... Just because they can compete with that belt level or show someone A thing or two, doesn’t mean they are at that belt level in Jiu-Jitsu. Heck, a blue belt can show someone a trick or two, they can going in and compete with a black belt. But doesn’t mean their skill level and knowledge base is that of a Black or Brown Belt. Just like Kerr sleeping Mario Sperry in ADCC! Just because he slept him, does that mean he’s automatically a Black Belt? Absolutely not! He so odors today have the knowledge base of a black belt.
In my noob white belt opinion as much as I myself would love for competition to be the biggest impact in deciding ones belt the reality is when you go to another academy and you see someone's belt you expect that person to be able to relay a certain amount of information accordingly associated with their belt related to the sport/art they are representing. And even though blue to black belts are not required to teach anyone...they should be able to teach/show someone else of a lower rank this information in multiple formats be it verbally, drilling or sparring and not just through their preferred method of learning. This "greater" understanding of this knowledge is something that comes with time and experience that should be the real representation of the belt rank.
