Matwork in wrestling, compating folkstyle to freestyle.

Hi, I've been watching a lot of cool wrestling highlights, of different styles. I have a question regarding the mat work. In folkstyle, I notice than when they hit the mat, bottom guy does a mad scramble to get back to his feet again. In freestyle, I notice that when a guy gets taken down, bottom guy sprawls out wide, but doesn't seem to fight super hard for a reversal. What am I not seeing / understanding here? Why are freestyle wrestlers not doing the mad scramble in order to get the F away? Any input is appreciated~! btw I trained wrestling (freestyle and greco) recreationally for about a year. But neither coaches (one Chechen, one Irani - epic dudes) spoke a word of Dutch, so eventhough I learned a lot from them, I never understood the actual rules :)

I never wrestled. Have hosted wrestlers for workshops to get better at jits but never anything serious. Wish I had done it when I was younger.

Black beltVerified554 forum posts6875/1000

Hi, I've been watching a lot of cool wrestling highlights, of different styles. I have a question regarding the mat work. In folkstyle, I notice than when they hit the mat, bottom guy does a mad scramble to get back to his feet again. In freestyle, I notice that when a guy gets taken down, bottom guy sprawls out wide, but doesn't seem to fight super hard for a reversal. What am I not seeing / understanding here? Why are freestyle wrestlers not doing the mad scramble in order to get the F away? Any input is appreciated~! btw I trained wrestling (freestyle and greco) recreationally for about a year. But neither coaches (one Chechen, one Irani - epic dudes) spoke a word of Dutch, so eventhough I learned a lot from them, I never understood the actual rules :)

I can try to answer your question. My daughter wrestled all thru grade school until college and was on the national circuit as well as the Cadet Team USA freestyle team.

With Freestyle, the basic concept is to expose the opponent's back to the mat or get the pin. The wrestler is awarded points for exposure no matter how long. My daughter used to do a technique that was basically a gator roll, turning the opponent numerous times getting points each time their back was exposed. So as you describe the matches you are watching the person on the bottom, fights to not get turned. If after a period of time the official will stand them back up to start again, like a stalemate.

Folkstyle is more about the control of the other person. If you watch a match the "top" person gains Riding time when they are in control. If the match ends in a tie and that person has the time advantage, then they are awarded an extra point for the riding time.

My daughter trained with three Olympians, Rodney Smith who was a Bronze Greco Roman wrestler, Anibal Nieves who was in the 1992 and 1996 olympic games and her favorite Elena Pirozhkova. Some Might remember Elena for picking up Michelle Obama before the 2012 Olympic Games.

Black belt 3rd degreeVerified

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Thanks for clarifying that!

But in freestyle, it seems to my untrained eye, that the bottom person sprawled out only tries to NOT get rolled.

I don't think I've seen them try to handfight and escape / reverse from there.
Are they not allowed to for a certain amount of time, after the takedown has been awarded?
Or am I missing something?

In folkstyle, I remember seeing a lot more active attempts at escaping / reversing from there.

Black beltVerified554 forum posts6875/1000

Thanks for clarifying that! But in freestyle, it seems to my untrained eye, that the bottom person sprawled out only tries to NOT get rolled. I don't think I've seen them try to handfight and escape / reverse from there. Are they not allowed to for a certain amount of time, after the takedown has been awarded? Or am I missing something? In folkstyle, I remember seeing a lot more active attempts at escaping / reversing from there.

Yes, the bottom person on freestyle tries not to get turned. With the Cadet team, if the top person couldn't turn the bottom within 15 seconds or show they are almost getting the turn the official stands them back up. Also to confuse things more, some throws from standing end that period because of back exposure and control.

Again you are right in folkstyle, the bottom person wants to move and be active. If they are not active they get a "stalling" penalty which at times results in points for the person on top.

A good match and a gator roll by Jordon is an example of what I was talking about earlier. Both matches have good examples of what I was speaking of. I wish I could find my Coach's manual, it shows a lot of these rules and things you ask about.

https://youtu.be/_VggZOEzWus

Jordon's Olympic Gold Match
https://youtu.be/k0k_zZ4x2NA

Black belt 3rd degreeVerified

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So cool!

I remember learning a similar leg knot and gator roll from my coach Hossein (the Iranian guy). I'd been a blue belt for a few years by then, and he saw i was decent at grabbing legs & rolling around.

Awesome, thanks!

Jorgen Matsi

Black belt 2nd degreeVerified

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Yeah it's easy - in Folkstyle there is riding time to score, in Freestyle (and Greco) there's not.

Edited 5 year(s) ago

Black belt 3rd degreeVerified

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It's interesting you see a lot more pins in folkstyle. Probably as a result of the existence of riding time.

Also, it's cool to see differences in individual approaches. For instance, Abdulrachid Sadulaev has a completely different approach to back exposure than Jordan Buroughs. Sadu does a gutwrech and a sort of butterfly sweep, Jordan prefers a leg knot.

Black beltVerified554 forum posts6875/1000

Funny this topic is up now, my daughter was over and we were talking about the days of wrestling! She actually used both to get the exposure, depending on the person she was wrestling. Also some matches she would bounce back and forth between the leg lace and the gut-wrench depending on how they were defending. Sometimes she also transitioned from a gut-wrench to the "west point" and go for a pin.

Now to my opinion on the Pins in Folkstyle compared to the pins in freestyle. It has a lot to do with the point system. Freestyle rule (change more than I can count) Pushes for points. In the past for example a wrestler could end the period by scoring a certain amount of points, and that 3 min period is done. A ton of energy is saved in a big tournament that way instead of fighting for a difficult pin. One national competition my daughter had 5 matches before the finals, but was able to only have about 95 seconds of mat time. That makes you pretty fresh going into a final bout.

And yes I am still bragging about my little girl even though she has long grown up!

Black belt 3rd degreeVerified

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Dude, you SHOULD be proud of your kid. That's absolutely fantastic!

I feel pinning / riding is an absolutely crucial skill to have, even in BJJ. We don't do enough of it.
I was taught by my first BJJ instructor (coincidentally, a longtime wrestler), that proper pressure from riding / pinning should be just as punishing as a submission hold.

Make the guy tap from positions alone, and you own his soul. Or a similar epic phrasing...

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