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Question about Sandbagging.
5 year(s) ago • 2956 views • 28 replies
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
So I am 10-4-1 against Purple or higher belts in competition.
3 of the 4 losses I finished on top after my opponent became exhausted and I was near kimura finishes and just ran out of time. 4 minute matches still throw me off I still have sort of an eternal alarm clock to 5 minute matches.
1 loss I got destroyed at the start from a collar strangle from right off the fist bump. I definitely learned from that mistake to create proper distance from the start lol. Afterwards I noticed he had watched my other matches like a Hawk and I had been starting each match exactly the same. So even if my opponent still knows "what" I am going to do by pulling guard. I have made sure that they don't know the how or the when.
A few thing I have noticed is that purple matches are so much more fun then blue belt matches. Just the movement and back and forth action they often feel like real battles that could go either way some of the time and actually getting that finishing submission is way harder to actually finish off the purples. Going for the finish normally feels like a higher risk is involved as well while blue belts once you get in a dominant position they often just mentally check out and give up.
Blue belt matches are often just one person destroys the other and the other person often never recovers or if they do they just end up in closed guard till the end of the match or something stupid like that. lol
I compete to learn not to win. And normally I feel like I learn more when I either lose or have a really tough back and forth victory.
I feel that I almost never learn anything from matches I win against blue belts while I am able to actually still learn a bit from the matches I win at purple as they normally are not so one sided the entire match and more mistakes maybe exposed.
Some tournament companies will let you compete up while most do not. So my actual question is for the tournaments that do not should I even sign up to the blue belt divisions. I know that there are a lot of those adult teenager blue belts that can still kick my ass but those are less common at the heavyweight ranks which kind goes back to what I mentioned before about the differences in match quality that I am seeing and if it's also sandbagging a bit anyways.
I also sorta don't feel that Purple is an advanced rank like most people.
To me White = Novice, Blue = Beginner, Purple = Intermediate and Brown = Advanced and Black is Expert.
As such that is sorta the real difference I feel in the matches the difference between intermediate and a beginner often times. I feel like a lot of mistakes are still made at purple belt but they just don't give up and allow those mistakes to doom themselves and often recover from the mistakes while at blue belt one mistake often times leads to the end of the match.
I am closing in on being 35 years old and know it's only going to go down from here as I get older the younger guys are only going to become even more annoying to deal with and I will probably start reducing the amount of competitions I do anyways. I have also already done 30 tournaments and most blue belts have not competed that much.
**Edit**
Also forgot to mention that Newbreed actually won't even let me sign up to Blue Belt Gi anymore. lol so when once company says you can't compete at a certain bracket not sure if I should just honor that for all of them also. I just don't want people joking that I am sandbagging like when I was a white belt.
3 of the 4 losses I finished on top after my opponent became exhausted and I was near kimura finishes and just ran out of time. 4 minute matches still throw me off I still have sort of an eternal alarm clock to 5 minute matches.
1 loss I got destroyed at the start from a collar strangle from right off the fist bump. I definitely learned from that mistake to create proper distance from the start lol. Afterwards I noticed he had watched my other matches like a Hawk and I had been starting each match exactly the same. So even if my opponent still knows "what" I am going to do by pulling guard. I have made sure that they don't know the how or the when.
A few thing I have noticed is that purple matches are so much more fun then blue belt matches. Just the movement and back and forth action they often feel like real battles that could go either way some of the time and actually getting that finishing submission is way harder to actually finish off the purples. Going for the finish normally feels like a higher risk is involved as well while blue belts once you get in a dominant position they often just mentally check out and give up.
Blue belt matches are often just one person destroys the other and the other person often never recovers or if they do they just end up in closed guard till the end of the match or something stupid like that. lol
I compete to learn not to win. And normally I feel like I learn more when I either lose or have a really tough back and forth victory.
I feel that I almost never learn anything from matches I win against blue belts while I am able to actually still learn a bit from the matches I win at purple as they normally are not so one sided the entire match and more mistakes maybe exposed.
Some tournament companies will let you compete up while most do not. So my actual question is for the tournaments that do not should I even sign up to the blue belt divisions. I know that there are a lot of those adult teenager blue belts that can still kick my ass but those are less common at the heavyweight ranks which kind goes back to what I mentioned before about the differences in match quality that I am seeing and if it's also sandbagging a bit anyways.
I also sorta don't feel that Purple is an advanced rank like most people.
To me White = Novice, Blue = Beginner, Purple = Intermediate and Brown = Advanced and Black is Expert.
As such that is sorta the real difference I feel in the matches the difference between intermediate and a beginner often times. I feel like a lot of mistakes are still made at purple belt but they just don't give up and allow those mistakes to doom themselves and often recover from the mistakes while at blue belt one mistake often times leads to the end of the match.
I am closing in on being 35 years old and know it's only going to go down from here as I get older the younger guys are only going to become even more annoying to deal with and I will probably start reducing the amount of competitions I do anyways. I have also already done 30 tournaments and most blue belts have not competed that much.
**Edit**
Also forgot to mention that Newbreed actually won't even let me sign up to Blue Belt Gi anymore. lol so when once company says you can't compete at a certain bracket not sure if I should just honor that for all of them also. I just don't want people joking that I am sandbagging like when I was a white belt.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
IBBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Go absolute if you go to a tournament that does not allow you to step up in brackets. Also roll out the no gi and go expert division absolute and have some fun.
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Go absolute if you go to a tournament that does not allow you to step up in brackets. Also roll out the no gi and go expert division absolute and have some fun.
Mostly focusing on Gi, no-gi can be fun but it also requires a lot more energy and is higher risk.
In the Gi I can compete as much as I want without really risking any sort of injury.
Nogi can sometimes just turn into a wild west footlock showdown or a race to the back which that has it's place it just doesn't excite me as much.
I really enjoy the slower more psychological battles in the GI over the more intense faster pace nogi matches.
In the Gi I can compete as much as I want without really risking any sort of injury.
Nogi can sometimes just turn into a wild west footlock showdown or a race to the back which that has it's place it just doesn't excite me as much.
I really enjoy the slower more psychological battles in the GI over the more intense faster pace nogi matches.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
RLPurple beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
This is a great topic! Thank you for sharing and I am looking forward to hearing the responses. Also, much respect for your competition record!!
As a blue belt I lost a few matches against blue belts who had been training for 5+ years. At first “sandbagging” bothered me, but I started to become grateful when it happened because I realized it was preparing me for what would come later. I found myself training for higher level competition and in turn constantly trying to improve my skill. I just got promoted to purple belt and looking forward to whatever happens in the next match.
My Professor told me that black belts have it the worst. I guess at that level someone with 10 years could end up in a tournament against someone with 20 plus years if they started as a kid and sandbagging wouldn’t exist?
My professor’s son is the same rank as me, but he’s been training since he was 4 and he destroys my 41 year old self every day in practice. At the end of the day I am just grateful for the opportunity to improve
*Edit* With your record, you could do Fight 2 Win ; get the challenge, experience and get paid!
As a blue belt I lost a few matches against blue belts who had been training for 5+ years. At first “sandbagging” bothered me, but I started to become grateful when it happened because I realized it was preparing me for what would come later. I found myself training for higher level competition and in turn constantly trying to improve my skill. I just got promoted to purple belt and looking forward to whatever happens in the next match.
My Professor told me that black belts have it the worst. I guess at that level someone with 10 years could end up in a tournament against someone with 20 plus years if they started as a kid and sandbagging wouldn’t exist?
My professor’s son is the same rank as me, but he’s been training since he was 4 and he destroys my 41 year old self every day in practice. At the end of the day I am just grateful for the opportunity to improve
*Edit* With your record, you could do Fight 2 Win ; get the challenge, experience and get paid!
Edited 5 year(s) ago
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
4 minute matches still throw me off I still have sort of an eternal alarm clock to 5 minute matches.
4 mins is crazy short for a purple belt match. We have them as 7 mins.
Ahem... what was your question again? :)
Ahem... what was your question again? :)
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Just recently saw a post from the Mendes Bros about their newest prodigy killing it in competition subbing everyone, weight class & absolute, a 16-year old blue belt.
Looking at his profile he has been training for 11 years, and currently trains for 5/6 hours every day + teaches for 3 hours.
Ok, so the kid is young but probably gets more challenging rolls daily at the academy than blasting through hobbyist blues at competitions. Somebody questioned the sense in this in the comments, and at least they honestly answered that they want to build up his name by the visibility that comes with winning, have a chance to showcase their technical superiority, and if he's way ahead of his age & rank he should be able to enjoy it, and that competing at each belt level is important for the development of an athlete. Also true that the big IBJJF comps for Juveniles (blue/green) is very high level and with a purple he couldn't compete in those.
I still feel bad for the hobbyist who commits the time & money to enter a comp as a blue belt and then gets publicly toyed by this child for 30 secs in his first match...
Looking at his profile he has been training for 11 years, and currently trains for 5/6 hours every day + teaches for 3 hours.
Ok, so the kid is young but probably gets more challenging rolls daily at the academy than blasting through hobbyist blues at competitions. Somebody questioned the sense in this in the comments, and at least they honestly answered that they want to build up his name by the visibility that comes with winning, have a chance to showcase their technical superiority, and if he's way ahead of his age & rank he should be able to enjoy it, and that competing at each belt level is important for the development of an athlete. Also true that the big IBJJF comps for Juveniles (blue/green) is very high level and with a purple he couldn't compete in those.
I still feel bad for the hobbyist who commits the time & money to enter a comp as a blue belt and then gets publicly toyed by this child for 30 secs in his first match...
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
4 mins is crazy short for a purple belt match. We have them as 7 mins. Ahem... what was your question again? :)
Yea apparently "executive" 30 and older is only 4 minutes at Newbreed tournaments. I mostly compete against adults which is 5 minutes. Some competitions I know Fuji it's 6 minutes which is awesome.
But competing against people my age in their 30's is way easier than the adults that are under 25.
Those teenager blue/purple belts that have trained their entire lives should destroy me lol I am not even that good or well rounded...I just mostly take advantage of the silly rules that allow you to pull guard and sweep and use my energy accordingly with a strong A game something that Brown Belts should be able to expose and pick apart things like your weak side and exploit your lack of being well rounded. Which is why I consider Brown Belts to actually be advanced and Purple Belts just intermediate. My own personal opinion.
My question is basically if I should just avoid competing against blue belts entirely since one company already has banned me from doing so requiring me to compete against purples.
But competing against people my age in their 30's is way easier than the adults that are under 25.
Those teenager blue/purple belts that have trained their entire lives should destroy me lol I am not even that good or well rounded...I just mostly take advantage of the silly rules that allow you to pull guard and sweep and use my energy accordingly with a strong A game something that Brown Belts should be able to expose and pick apart things like your weak side and exploit your lack of being well rounded. Which is why I consider Brown Belts to actually be advanced and Purple Belts just intermediate. My own personal opinion.
My question is basically if I should just avoid competing against blue belts entirely since one company already has banned me from doing so requiring me to compete against purples.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
In my neck of the woods all comps are basically either IBJJF or ADCC rules.
ADCC rules/brackets solves the sandbagging problem because you can pick your category, and the recommendations are Beginner = less than 2 years of training, Intermediate = 2-4 years of training and Pro = 4+ years of training.
Also if you have a medal from a national level or higher competition in BJJ (color belts), judo or wrestling, or have had a pro MMA fight or previously competed in ADCC pro category, you go to Pro. Same as you're the winner of Beginner/Intermediate previously, you have to enter the next level up.
I compete in the Masters (35+) and that is not separated by skill level at all. And in the 35+ too, the finals are 8 min + 4 min overtime, so potentially a 12 min match... That's a goddamn cardio session (especially nogi) for us elderly.
IBJJF rule comps are run trough our Finnish Federation's system, and competing a level up is not possible.
ADCC rules/brackets solves the sandbagging problem because you can pick your category, and the recommendations are Beginner = less than 2 years of training, Intermediate = 2-4 years of training and Pro = 4+ years of training.
Also if you have a medal from a national level or higher competition in BJJ (color belts), judo or wrestling, or have had a pro MMA fight or previously competed in ADCC pro category, you go to Pro. Same as you're the winner of Beginner/Intermediate previously, you have to enter the next level up.
I compete in the Masters (35+) and that is not separated by skill level at all. And in the 35+ too, the finals are 8 min + 4 min overtime, so potentially a 12 min match... That's a goddamn cardio session (especially nogi) for us elderly.
IBJJF rule comps are run trough our Finnish Federation's system, and competing a level up is not possible.
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
My question is basically if I should just avoid competing against blue belts entirely since one company already has banned me from doing so requiring me to compete against purples.
IMO depends the level/size of the competition. I'm pretty sure there are competitor blues out there that can offer you a challenge.
For example I managed to go all the way to the final in my weight class at last year's Nationals at purple Adult. But I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have happened in the corresponding blue belt bracket. Those are always almost double the amount of people, 20-30 competitors, with some really savvy youngsters thrown in. So that's potentially 5 won matches to get the gold.
For example I managed to go all the way to the final in my weight class at last year's Nationals at purple Adult. But I'm pretty sure that wouldn't have happened in the corresponding blue belt bracket. Those are always almost double the amount of people, 20-30 competitors, with some really savvy youngsters thrown in. So that's potentially 5 won matches to get the gold.
JMBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Hey there my brother James, after reviewing a number of the competition videos on your page, I had a couple of thoughts. It seems from those videos that you are a solid blue belt with extraordinary kimura skills. With this in mind, it seems to me that you and your coach have a decision to make: first, you could lean into that kimora magic of yours and learn to find it from every position. From top, from bottom, from inverted guard, from everywhere. go to as many competitions as you can, wreck as many people as you can and gain as many medals, belts, and as much fame as possible. Or two, (and probably the route that I would encourage if I were your coach) no more kimura's! For the next 6 to 12 months you don't touch a kimura. Increase your proficiency with chokes, arm-bars, or even wrist locks (ibjjf legal for blue belts). With the second approach, you will certainly suffer more losses both in the gym and probably in competitions. But, your jiu jitsu will develop a far broader base. IMO there is no right or wrong path here. As long as you are having fun and enjoying your jujitsu, you're doing it right. Have fun!
Edited 5 year(s) ago
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I stopped doing Kimuras in practice about 6 months ago as I don't want to end the rolls early as it reduces your opportunities to learn. I just would transition slowly to bicep slicer/wrist lock then to armbar. I prefer to just roll as slowly and lazily as possible using the least amount of energy and effort from every position.
I try to always have at least one thing I am working on from every single position as if you don't then you are reducing your ability to learn at a maximum efficiency.
Past few tournaments I stopped trying to win by submission mostly focusing on absolute control against the purple belts as they are a bit harder to "tame". And I have found a good control position that I am able to get to consistently that I am just allowing to become instinctual to all the possible movements my opponents may make from that position so my timing and responses will be better when actually going for the submissions as the moment of attempting the submissions themselves is the greatest risk of losing your dominant position and reducing the chance of losing dominant position during the submission attempts is a goal as I prefer a low risk low energy style.
Again I don't really care about winning or medals...the belts are kinda cool but they just take up space honestly. I prefer to lose a really close match then to win easily. I don't want people to know my name in that regard I'm almost 35. I have no career in jiu-jitsu lol it's all just a fun game of problem solving in real time and I enjoy the psychological warfare of getting your opponent to brake down mentally before physically. I like taking my time with my food and letting them exhaust themselves first. It's why I hate short match lengths. If anything I would just be like some sorta John Danaher evil villain that only speaks in riddles and short sentences that sound like they might make sense.
I don't really think like other people when it comes to learning jiu jitsu. My goal has never been to be the most well rounded. I think more conceptually in a problem solving way of that If I am simply able to tear down and remove as many options as possible from occurring then all I have to be is better then my opponent at the remaining possibilities.
I will slowly become more well rounded by actually developing my A game even deeper and allowing the spider web connections to continue to branch off and allowing others to expose my weaknesses and those weaknesses that are exposed then can be worked on until new areas have been exposed and repeat.
I have always been and probably will always be that person that looks clueless when drilling in slow motion but seamless in sparring as I am not thinking about technique a, b or c. I am thinking of knees, elbows, posts, deception, space time continuum, how the body and mind works and my mind is not flooded with I need to do step 1 then 2 then step 3 to do this or that. In competition I am never thinking what do I do now...I may think to myself there is no way in hell I am going to let this person pass my guard now and just focus on the process of advancement or not giving up any territory. My mind will be more focused on channeling every last bit of energy on not bitching out and giving up a position that is only going to be more difficult to take back. Once said territory is lost then having to switch gears and just relax and wait for the proper time to execute an escape instead of wasting energy as energy reserves in certain muscle groups are the reinforcements needed to comeback from bad positions and they must be utilized wisely as once the reinforcements are gone the battle is lost and as you get older you have fewer and fewer reinforcements. lol
To sum it up...I would just simply think to myself...how can this person invade my space, interrupt my posture/balance and take away my posts. Remove those possibilities from them. Then you have to think of how is this person going to deceive me and manipulate me in order to conquer my space and to read and react to their tricks. Then getting good at hanging out in any position that you have invaded and being able to transition from all the territories that you have conquered and just hang out in them and fill at home in those lands. Those are your lands now. Squash any rebellions until they are pacified and submit to being a vassal under your command. lol
Ok I think I am ready for a Braveheart like battle now.
I try to always have at least one thing I am working on from every single position as if you don't then you are reducing your ability to learn at a maximum efficiency.
Past few tournaments I stopped trying to win by submission mostly focusing on absolute control against the purple belts as they are a bit harder to "tame". And I have found a good control position that I am able to get to consistently that I am just allowing to become instinctual to all the possible movements my opponents may make from that position so my timing and responses will be better when actually going for the submissions as the moment of attempting the submissions themselves is the greatest risk of losing your dominant position and reducing the chance of losing dominant position during the submission attempts is a goal as I prefer a low risk low energy style.
Again I don't really care about winning or medals...the belts are kinda cool but they just take up space honestly. I prefer to lose a really close match then to win easily. I don't want people to know my name in that regard I'm almost 35. I have no career in jiu-jitsu lol it's all just a fun game of problem solving in real time and I enjoy the psychological warfare of getting your opponent to brake down mentally before physically. I like taking my time with my food and letting them exhaust themselves first. It's why I hate short match lengths. If anything I would just be like some sorta John Danaher evil villain that only speaks in riddles and short sentences that sound like they might make sense.
I don't really think like other people when it comes to learning jiu jitsu. My goal has never been to be the most well rounded. I think more conceptually in a problem solving way of that If I am simply able to tear down and remove as many options as possible from occurring then all I have to be is better then my opponent at the remaining possibilities.
I will slowly become more well rounded by actually developing my A game even deeper and allowing the spider web connections to continue to branch off and allowing others to expose my weaknesses and those weaknesses that are exposed then can be worked on until new areas have been exposed and repeat.
I have always been and probably will always be that person that looks clueless when drilling in slow motion but seamless in sparring as I am not thinking about technique a, b or c. I am thinking of knees, elbows, posts, deception, space time continuum, how the body and mind works and my mind is not flooded with I need to do step 1 then 2 then step 3 to do this or that. In competition I am never thinking what do I do now...I may think to myself there is no way in hell I am going to let this person pass my guard now and just focus on the process of advancement or not giving up any territory. My mind will be more focused on channeling every last bit of energy on not bitching out and giving up a position that is only going to be more difficult to take back. Once said territory is lost then having to switch gears and just relax and wait for the proper time to execute an escape instead of wasting energy as energy reserves in certain muscle groups are the reinforcements needed to comeback from bad positions and they must be utilized wisely as once the reinforcements are gone the battle is lost and as you get older you have fewer and fewer reinforcements. lol
To sum it up...I would just simply think to myself...how can this person invade my space, interrupt my posture/balance and take away my posts. Remove those possibilities from them. Then you have to think of how is this person going to deceive me and manipulate me in order to conquer my space and to read and react to their tricks. Then getting good at hanging out in any position that you have invaded and being able to transition from all the territories that you have conquered and just hang out in them and fill at home in those lands. Those are your lands now. Squash any rebellions until they are pacified and submit to being a vassal under your command. lol
Ok I think I am ready for a Braveheart like battle now.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
CBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Yea apparently "executive" 30 and older is only 4 minutes at Newbreed tournaments. I mostly compete against adults which is 5 minutes. Some competitions I know Fuji it's 6 minutes which is awesome.
If I may, I get the feeling that you tend to focus on these New breed tournaments. Have you thought about trying another promoter like IBJJF or NAGA? I've never even heard of a tournament so short, and I'm 45. You might get some more challenging competitions if you go out of your standard.
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
If I may, I get the feeling that you tend to focus on these New breed tournaments. Have you thought about trying another promoter like IBJJF or NAGA? I've never even heard of a tournament so short, and I'm 45. You might get some more challenging competitions if you go out of your standard.
I do all the tournaments in the area normally Naga is once or twice a year, next one near me is in April which I plan on doing.
I went 8-2 at my last naga then beat the 2 people I lost to at Newbreed the following year. They are basically the same tournament with slightly different point system.
IBJJF doesn't even guarantee you a single match. If your opponent's don't show up or miss weight your screwed. I will probably only do IBJJF in the future for Worlds or Pans Master 2 or something if I am feeling like putting up with their annoying system It might as well be at worlds or pans as their regional tournaments are just not worth the trouble.
And honestly I haven't noticed any difference in challenge based upon the companies. Actually sometimes the bigger city tournaments tend to be easier as often times only the crazy jiu jitsu fanatics will travel to the smaller cities outside of the locals to that area. The biggest difference I notice are certain regions tend to have better competition than others. Like the North East near New York City, or near Florida would have tougher competition on average than where I am currently located the region would play a larger impact than the tournament company.
I am not trying to drive more then 3 hours for local tournaments though. I am not about to pay for a hotel unless its some huge event.
I went 8-2 at my last naga then beat the 2 people I lost to at Newbreed the following year. They are basically the same tournament with slightly different point system.
IBJJF doesn't even guarantee you a single match. If your opponent's don't show up or miss weight your screwed. I will probably only do IBJJF in the future for Worlds or Pans Master 2 or something if I am feeling like putting up with their annoying system It might as well be at worlds or pans as their regional tournaments are just not worth the trouble.
And honestly I haven't noticed any difference in challenge based upon the companies. Actually sometimes the bigger city tournaments tend to be easier as often times only the crazy jiu jitsu fanatics will travel to the smaller cities outside of the locals to that area. The biggest difference I notice are certain regions tend to have better competition than others. Like the North East near New York City, or near Florida would have tougher competition on average than where I am currently located the region would play a larger impact than the tournament company.
I am not trying to drive more then 3 hours for local tournaments though. I am not about to pay for a hotel unless its some huge event.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
RRBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I use to be the tournament director for Newbreed, now I have not worked for them since December 2015, but I am not aware if they ever told someone who is a blue belt that they couldn't compete against other blue belts, even if you gold medal against them always. I've had this conversation plenty of times in running events, you may be the best blue belt in your area (in your age range), that doesn't mean that you are a world beater at that level.... That said, if you're a multi time IBJJF Worlds, Masters Worlds, and Pans champ in that division, maybe someone needs to talk to your instructor about promoting you to purple belt.
Also, and this was an interesting thing that happened once in Dallas while doing a Newbreed event..... Some guy who was bigger/younger/stronger than a lot of other smaller guys was a blue belt, while the other guys were older purple belts (this was at one of our first few shows in Dallas, over by Addison and that Volleyball place we did the event at, so at the time, not a lot of adult competitors.... by the end of my run with the company, we were hitting between 285-385 competitors every Dallas event).... The blue belt beat the masters purples (He was a young 215 pound guy, they were a couple of 155-175 pound guys)..... This upset the coach of one of the purple belts. Fast forward to IBJJF worlds later that year, the blue belt went to worlds to compete, and the coach of one of the purple belts had somehow notified the IBJJF that the blue belt was sandbagging, showed video stills of him competing against purple belts, and the blue belt was disqualified from participating that year (we found out, because next time we went to Dallas, he told us about it, and it was still an issue between the two gyms)..... My point, compete against your belt level, if you're dominating everyone, maybe talk to your coach, he obviously sees that you're an avid competitor, maybe he'll promote you if he feels you are at that level to challenge yourself against tougher purple belts (or those purple belts who are about to become brown belts)
Also, and this was an interesting thing that happened once in Dallas while doing a Newbreed event..... Some guy who was bigger/younger/stronger than a lot of other smaller guys was a blue belt, while the other guys were older purple belts (this was at one of our first few shows in Dallas, over by Addison and that Volleyball place we did the event at, so at the time, not a lot of adult competitors.... by the end of my run with the company, we were hitting between 285-385 competitors every Dallas event).... The blue belt beat the masters purples (He was a young 215 pound guy, they were a couple of 155-175 pound guys)..... This upset the coach of one of the purple belts. Fast forward to IBJJF worlds later that year, the blue belt went to worlds to compete, and the coach of one of the purple belts had somehow notified the IBJJF that the blue belt was sandbagging, showed video stills of him competing against purple belts, and the blue belt was disqualified from participating that year (we found out, because next time we went to Dallas, he told us about it, and it was still an issue between the two gyms)..... My point, compete against your belt level, if you're dominating everyone, maybe talk to your coach, he obviously sees that you're an avid competitor, maybe he'll promote you if he feels you are at that level to challenge yourself against tougher purple belts (or those purple belts who are about to become brown belts)
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I use to be the tournament director for Newbreed, now I have not worked for them since December 2015, but I am not aware if they ever told someone who is a blue belt that they couldn't compete against other blue belts, even if you gold medal against them always. I've had this conversation plenty of times in running events, you may be the best blue belt in your area (in your age range), that doesn't mean that you are a world beater at that level.... That said, if you're a multi time IBJJF Worlds, Masters Worlds, and Pans champ in that division, maybe someone needs to talk to your instructor about promoting you to purple belt. Also, and this was an interesting thing that happened once in Dallas while doing a Newbreed event..... Some guy who was bigger/younger/stronger than a lot of other smaller guys was a blue belt, while the other guys were older purple belts (this was at one of our first few shows in Dallas, over by Addison and that Volleyball place we did the event at, so at the time, not a lot of adult competitors.... by the end of my run with the company, we were hitting between 285-385 competitors every Dallas event).... The blue belt beat the masters purples (He was a young 215 pound guy, they were a couple of 155-175 pound guys)..... This upset the coach of one of the purple belts. Fast forward to IBJJF worlds later that year, the blue belt went to worlds to compete, and the coach of one of the purple belts had somehow notified the IBJJF that the blue belt was sandbagging, showed video stills of him competing against purple belts, and the blue belt was disqualified from participating that year (we found out, because next time we went to Dallas, he told us about it, and it was still an issue between the two gyms)..... My point, compete against your belt level, if you're dominating everyone, maybe talk to your coach, he obviously sees that you're an avid competitor, maybe he'll promote you if he feels you are at that level to challenge yourself against tougher purple belts (or those purple belts who are about to become brown belts)
Again I am not that good lol. Lot's of blue belts can still kick my ass. The issue is more in competition of the guys I end up being bracketed against because of my size it's not the same as competing at say 150 or 170 pound divisions. I just do well against guys who are my size and age which tend not to be the toughest divisions for sure.
I don't care about belts only about learning, the only reason to ever care about a silly belt is for competitions. I refuse to mention belts to anyone who is currently over my promotions as I feel that is just childish honestly. Everyone has their own criteria and that is up to them not me. I still haven't been training all that long. Less than 3 years still so I don't deserve to be promoted again anytime soon.
but yes Newbreed actually has told me multiple times and backed up what they said at the last tournament and wouldn't let me face blue belts even though their were blue belts my size. They only will let me do purple and up. Only thing that sucks is you don't get as many matches. I promise you this is the case and I am not making it up. lol I have been informed this through e-mail, on the phone and in person multiple times and at the bracketing table.
I have actually won 3 of their purple belt divisions so It makes sense on there part I suppose my only real question from the initial post is if I should just avoid competing against blue belts because one company has banned me from doing so. That is all. As I just don't want people bitching to me that I shouldn't be in whatever bracket even if I am technically eligible. As I stopped competing against white belts a year before I got my blue belt as people would just jokingly say I was sandbagging and I am just at a point where I don't want to have that same feeling again that I had at white belt now at blue belt. That is all. Just feels like you have nothing to gain and at least against purples no one can say I am sandbagging or trying to diminish anything I am trying to accomplish.
I feel like it's the combination of people making you feel like you might be sandbagging and also not getting the quality of matches that you want. When I stopped doing white belt and started competing against blues I felt like I was getting better quality matches against blues anyways. And now it's kind the same to where I feel like I am getting better quality matches against purples anyways. The blues now feel sorta like how the white belts did a year ago and just history repeating itself that's all. Not sure if that makes sense.
I don't care about belts only about learning, the only reason to ever care about a silly belt is for competitions. I refuse to mention belts to anyone who is currently over my promotions as I feel that is just childish honestly. Everyone has their own criteria and that is up to them not me. I still haven't been training all that long. Less than 3 years still so I don't deserve to be promoted again anytime soon.
but yes Newbreed actually has told me multiple times and backed up what they said at the last tournament and wouldn't let me face blue belts even though their were blue belts my size. They only will let me do purple and up. Only thing that sucks is you don't get as many matches. I promise you this is the case and I am not making it up. lol I have been informed this through e-mail, on the phone and in person multiple times and at the bracketing table.
I have actually won 3 of their purple belt divisions so It makes sense on there part I suppose my only real question from the initial post is if I should just avoid competing against blue belts because one company has banned me from doing so. That is all. As I just don't want people bitching to me that I shouldn't be in whatever bracket even if I am technically eligible. As I stopped competing against white belts a year before I got my blue belt as people would just jokingly say I was sandbagging and I am just at a point where I don't want to have that same feeling again that I had at white belt now at blue belt. That is all. Just feels like you have nothing to gain and at least against purples no one can say I am sandbagging or trying to diminish anything I am trying to accomplish.
I feel like it's the combination of people making you feel like you might be sandbagging and also not getting the quality of matches that you want. When I stopped doing white belt and started competing against blues I felt like I was getting better quality matches against blues anyways. And now it's kind the same to where I feel like I am getting better quality matches against purples anyways. The blues now feel sorta like how the white belts did a year ago and just history repeating itself that's all. Not sure if that makes sense.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
IBJJF doesn't even guarantee you a single match. If your opponent's don't show up or miss weight your screwed. I will probably only do IBJJF in the future for Worlds or Pans Master 2 or something if I am feeling like putting up with their annoying system It might as well be at worlds or pans as their regional tournaments are just not worth the trouble.
I basically travel abroad only to the main IBJJF tourneys because they have by far the biggest Masters brackets. Euros/Master Worlds/etc. even in Master 2 it has been at least a 5-fight bracket for me every time.
Basically if it's less than a 8-man bracket I don't personally think it's worth traveling even a shorter distance. Depends on the quality of the opponents of course though.
Basically if it's less than a 8-man bracket I don't personally think it's worth traveling even a shorter distance. Depends on the quality of the opponents of course though.
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I basically travel abroad only to the main IBJJF tourneys because they have by far the biggest Masters brackets. Euros/Master Worlds/etc. even in Master 2 it has been at least a 5-fight bracket for me every time. Basically if it's less than a 8-man bracket I don't personally think it's worth traveling even a shorter distance. Depends on the quality of the opponents of course though.
Yea like you said worlds euros pans etc.
The regional local city tournaments you may have 1 or 2 people sign up per bracket and if none of your opponents show up or if they miss weight you are forced to go to the podium and take a non participation trophy medal and no refund or voucher or option for another bracket. So that's why I am prob not going to be doing them except for the bigger events.
The regional local city tournaments you may have 1 or 2 people sign up per bracket and if none of your opponents show up or if they miss weight you are forced to go to the podium and take a non participation trophy medal and no refund or voucher or option for another bracket. So that's why I am prob not going to be doing them except for the bigger events.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
In regards of shorter match times for Masters I'm quoting Chris Haueter:
"Why the hell do they force old guys to run a sprint?!?"
"Why the hell do they force old guys to run a sprint?!?"
CBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
In regards of shorter match times for Masters I'm quoting Chris Haueter: 'Why the hell do they force old guys to run a sprint?!?'
Couldn't agree more with that statement.
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
In regards of shorter match times for Masters I'm quoting Chris Haueter: 'Why the hell do they force old guys to run a sprint?!?'
5 mins is good for Master 3 & up (40+), even for black belts in my opinion. 4 mins for 30+ is ridiculous. If you're in your thirties & compete, you oughta be in a better shape than that.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
5 mins is good for Master 3 & up (40+), even for black belts in my opinion. 4 mins for 30+ is ridiculous. If you're in your thirties & compete, you oughta be in a better shape than that.
Yea it's still my #1 gripe as I like to let spazzy athletic guys waste energy for a good 3 minutes sometimes and having 2 minutes left to finish is more than enough, Just 1 minute can turn into a shit show where I might finish on top but still lose on points if I had let them just go crazy if they managed to get past my guard I'll do the woe is me and let them try a million submission attempts and wear themselves out thinking they are so close.
Then after 3 minutes just escape and sweep them when they are tired and it's a bit psychological as well if they think they were destroying you then all of a sudden you come back out of nowhere and they are like oh shit wtf is this undertaker bs, I've noticed a lot of purple belts are really bad at wasting energy on offense in competition. I see it a lot less from brown belts where even if in dominant positions they normally don't fall into wasting energy traps.
Then after 3 minutes just escape and sweep them when they are tired and it's a bit psychological as well if they think they were destroying you then all of a sudden you come back out of nowhere and they are like oh shit wtf is this undertaker bs, I've noticed a lot of purple belts are really bad at wasting energy on offense in competition. I see it a lot less from brown belts where even if in dominant positions they normally don't fall into wasting energy traps.
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I'd do same time for Masters as for Adults.
You would take five 10min matches in a row at Master Worlds? (If you're in one of the bigger divisions.) Even for Adult in the big comps, they split blacks for 2 days I think, semis and finals are on the other day. The conditioning might play a little bit too big a part then for the elderly & we would see a lot of stalling due to it.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
You would take five 10min matches in a row at Master Worlds? (If you're in one of the bigger divisions.) Even for Adult in the big comps, they split blacks for 2 days I think, semis and finals are on the other day. The conditioning might play a little bit too big a part then for the elderly & we would see a lot of stalling due to it.
With the 5 minute match you see lot of stalling...
(ahem... in Estonian scene we call it "Finnish wrestling" where you see two guys, likely on heavier side, locked in kumi kata or in nogi neck tie pummeling and just walking and pushing each other back and forth for 5 minutes)
...BECAUSE as time is short noone wants to take risks and possibly giving up first points.
(ahem... in Estonian scene we call it "Finnish wrestling" where you see two guys, likely on heavier side, locked in kumi kata or in nogi neck tie pummeling and just walking and pushing each other back and forth for 5 minutes)
...BECAUSE as time is short noone wants to take risks and possibly giving up first points.
RRBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I basically travel abroad only to the main IBJJF tourneys because they have by far the biggest Masters brackets. Euros/Master Worlds/etc. even in Master 2 it has been at least a 5-fight bracket for me every time. Basically if it's less than a 8-man bracket I don't personally think it's worth traveling even a shorter distance. Depends on the quality of the opponents of course though.
Man I've been either fortunate or unlucky that Masters 3 Black Belt Heavyweight division is always full. My smallest division was 5 (Orlando Open), my larger ones were 21-25 (Pans, Worlds, and Masters).... I wish I could be in a small bracket sometimes LOL
RRBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I'd do same time for Masters as for Adults.
Masters can be 5 minutes, hell at Masters 4 and up, there should be a mandatory water break at the 2:30 mark for 2 minutes, THEN restart with both guys sitting and BSing on the mat about old Jiu Jitsu stories, and a 30 second bell to let them know to go strong at the end
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I wish I could be in a small bracket sometimes LOL
I wish I could be in any bracket sometimes :(
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
With the 5 minute match you see lot of stalling... (ahem... in Estonian scene we call it 'Finnish wrestling' where you see two guys, likely on heavier side, locked in kumi kata or in nogi neck tie pummeling and just walking and pushing each other back and forth for 5 minutes) ...BECAUSE as time is short noone wants to take risks and possibly giving up first points.
I think you described the first half of every heavier ADCC match before the points come in play. :)
Personally for shorter matches I prefer to do the points first, then stall for the rest of the duration. :D Especially for Masters a "So anyway, I started blasting" start can overwhelm the opponent, and the comeback might be hard before time runs out.
Side story, I loved a seminar by Comprido (the self-proclaimed 'King of the Lazy Pass' ) that he gave after Master Worlds one year. He won, but said he did not have good preparation and was out shape... So also the seminar was a lot about how to stall in different positions in a match, but making it look like you're working all the time for the referee, tactics how to make the opponent get passivity penalties etc. Brilliant! This is the essence of competing for me. :D Play the game.
Personally for shorter matches I prefer to do the points first, then stall for the rest of the duration. :D Especially for Masters a "So anyway, I started blasting" start can overwhelm the opponent, and the comeback might be hard before time runs out.
Side story, I loved a seminar by Comprido (the self-proclaimed 'King of the Lazy Pass' ) that he gave after Master Worlds one year. He won, but said he did not have good preparation and was out shape... So also the seminar was a lot about how to stall in different positions in a match, but making it look like you're working all the time for the referee, tactics how to make the opponent get passivity penalties etc. Brilliant! This is the essence of competing for me. :D Play the game.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I think you described the first half of every heavier ADCC match before the points come in play. :) Personally for shorter matches I prefer to do the points first, then stall the rest of the duration. :D Especially for Master a 'So anyway, I started blasting' start can overwhelm the opponent, and the comeback might be hard before time runs out. Side story, I loved a seminar by Comprido (the self-proclaimed 'King of the Lazy Pass' ) that he gave after Master Worlds one year. He won, but said he did not have good preparation and was out shape... So also the seminar was a lot about how to stall in different positions in a match, but making it look like you're working all the time for the referee, tactics how to make the opponent get passivity penalties etc. Brilliant! This is the essence of competing for me. :D Play the game.
lol if I ever get to Black Belt the first thing I will do is create a 5 step Instructional on how to be as lazy as possible and still win.
#1. How to stall from every position.
#2. How to get the refs to like you.
#3. How to tell if the refs will let you break the rules a bit. (If they have a beard your good)
#4. How to win by a single advantage
#5. How to win the ref decision.
Basically everything except actually winning by submission.
#1. How to stall from every position.
#2. How to get the refs to like you.
#3. How to tell if the refs will let you break the rules a bit. (If they have a beard your good)
#4. How to win by a single advantage
#5. How to win the ref decision.
Basically everything except actually winning by submission.
