Rules for main forums
- Be nice
- No advertisement
- No events
- No fundraisers
- No topics asking for votes
- Only posts related to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
Have some Hespetch! [change my view]
5 year(s) ago • 1560 views • 44 replies
DKBlue beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Considering words like: hespect, hespetch, heferee, gwuard, beltch, any word starting with 'R', etc. You can see a ton of example if you search for these words on r/bjj. I've also heard them throughout local tournaments, and pretty prevalent at a variety of local gyms
Until very recently I was using these terms, because I saw upper belts doing it and everyone laughing and it was just a bjj joke that I got to partake in. After having been away from the gym a bit, now I am having a hard time seeing it as funny, other than in the 'making fun of someone' aspect. I understand that it originates from the Brazilian/Portuguese accent, but it seems like we're just making fun of the accent or difficulties with pronunciation, like a speech impediment.
I found myself asking, if I met a person from Brazil in a workplace environment, would I use these pronunciations? How would I feel about trying to explain the 'joke' to them if they asked why I was saying words like that? I know I have heard specific comments about "oh good, now that <Brazilian person> has left the gym, I can go back to using my fake Brazilian accent", so the sentiment seems a lot more 'laughing at' rather than 'laughing with'.
After thinking about it, the key point that decided it for me was drawing a parallel to joking around about Asian accents and L/R word pronunciations difficulties. I know people (myself included) used to make jokes about that 20+ years ago in grade school, but now it just seems cringy looking back on it. Will I find myself 20 years from now thinking the same thing about these Portuguese accent jokes?
Can anyone provide a reasonable justification that isn't just "it's ok to make fun of people like that, since we're doing bjj"? If we're doing it to 'honor' the Brazilian roots of the sport, why not use the actual Portuguese words, like how Judo uses Japanese names for absolutely everything? (cinto=belt, juiz=referee, professor=teacher, respeito=respect, etc)
Note: not including names, like Royce, Rorion, de la Riva, etc, which I think should be pronounced however that person wants them to be, since they are proper nouns. Also, personally I have a much easier time justifying things like 'huge honor for me' by Bernardo Faria, as that is a specific person who has entirely adopted that as a catch phrase and embraced it. In that case we are laughing 'with him' instead of 'at him'
Until very recently I was using these terms, because I saw upper belts doing it and everyone laughing and it was just a bjj joke that I got to partake in. After having been away from the gym a bit, now I am having a hard time seeing it as funny, other than in the 'making fun of someone' aspect. I understand that it originates from the Brazilian/Portuguese accent, but it seems like we're just making fun of the accent or difficulties with pronunciation, like a speech impediment.
I found myself asking, if I met a person from Brazil in a workplace environment, would I use these pronunciations? How would I feel about trying to explain the 'joke' to them if they asked why I was saying words like that? I know I have heard specific comments about "oh good, now that <Brazilian person> has left the gym, I can go back to using my fake Brazilian accent", so the sentiment seems a lot more 'laughing at' rather than 'laughing with'.
After thinking about it, the key point that decided it for me was drawing a parallel to joking around about Asian accents and L/R word pronunciations difficulties. I know people (myself included) used to make jokes about that 20+ years ago in grade school, but now it just seems cringy looking back on it. Will I find myself 20 years from now thinking the same thing about these Portuguese accent jokes?
Can anyone provide a reasonable justification that isn't just "it's ok to make fun of people like that, since we're doing bjj"? If we're doing it to 'honor' the Brazilian roots of the sport, why not use the actual Portuguese words, like how Judo uses Japanese names for absolutely everything? (cinto=belt, juiz=referee, professor=teacher, respeito=respect, etc)
Note: not including names, like Royce, Rorion, de la Riva, etc, which I think should be pronounced however that person wants them to be, since they are proper nouns. Also, personally I have a much easier time justifying things like 'huge honor for me' by Bernardo Faria, as that is a specific person who has entirely adopted that as a catch phrase and embraced it. In that case we are laughing 'with him' instead of 'at him'
BBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
You spelled gward wrong.
DKBlue beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Ah, yes, I stand corrected. That one I've only heard, never seen it written out, so I tried to approximate what I was hearing into text. Based on a quick google, it looks like 'gward' is the most common representation.
OHBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
making fun of someone using an accent that is not his original one is the least we can do :-D
(like, i'm french speaking...when i speak english i try to say words correctly in english and maybe i have my french accent. But to me, speaking english with a brazilian portuguese accent... it's stupid if you're not from brazil or portugal....but jujiteiro around the world are doing it!)
with exception about names maybe....
not the same that making fun of the accent of a brazilian/portuguese speaking people!!! not at all!!
(like, i'm french speaking...when i speak english i try to say words correctly in english and maybe i have my french accent. But to me, speaking english with a brazilian portuguese accent... it's stupid if you're not from brazil or portugal....but jujiteiro around the world are doing it!)
with exception about names maybe....
not the same that making fun of the accent of a brazilian/portuguese speaking people!!! not at all!!
Edited 5 year(s) ago
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I don't know, I make fun of American accents quite often when I speak with American friends :D Or any other accent to any friend, really. Harmless if it's done as sarcasm and the person is there, imo.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I think good ol' punching up vs punching down thing in regards humour applies here. If you're making fun like that over some poor whitebelt out of a favela working two jobs to make ends meet and make it to class - that might not be okay unless he's explicitly down with that, if you're making fun of your coach under whom you train and pay your monthly fee to - more likely OK.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I would be honored if someone tried to make fun of Danish accent. Except for Swedes. Not funny, Swedes.
AHBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I don't know, I make fun of American accents quite often when I speak with American friends :D Or any other accent to any friend, really. Harmless if it's done as sarcasm and the person is there, imo.
A few years ago a german friend of mine told me that they have "american parties" over there.
Red solo cups, beer pong, and nasty american beer like coors light, play loud country music...
Then she showed me some pictures! Amazing!
Red solo cups, beer pong, and nasty american beer like coors light, play loud country music...
Then she showed me some pictures! Amazing!
MGPurple beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I had a friend from work and we met for lunch one day. We went to a Chinese restaurant and we didn’t get served because he kept speaking with an Asian accent. We then went to the Mexican restaurant next door and he did the same thing there. Pretty embarrassing behavior and that is why I refer to him being a friend in past tense.
BBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I think it’s funny and don’t get my feewings hurt.
Now Matt’s situation is different, and the guy got what he deserved, no service. But geez, people need to lighten up a bit.
Now Matt’s situation is different, and the guy got what he deserved, no service. But geez, people need to lighten up a bit.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
A few years ago a german friend of mine told me that they have 'american parties' over there. Red solo cups, beer pong, and nasty american beer like coors light, play loud country music... Then she showed me some pictures! Amazing!
I can not confirm, nor deny, that I also have photos of myself from such parties.
VBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
A few years ago a german friend of mine told me that they have 'american parties' over there. Red solo cups, beer pong, and nasty american beer like coors light, play loud country music... Then she showed me some pictures! Amazing!
Well they do say imitation is the greatest form of compliment even though it's not intended as such. LOL
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Hey I come for New Yawk and everyone else has a funny accent..
Every group has the inside jokes and rituals as part of a bonding experience,, Having been in the game so long this honestly comes from Americans having been second class citizens in the game and having to adjust to concepts like showing up for a noon class and the teacher not getting there till one and having to accept it's Brazilian time. Guys it's a combat sport we should have a sense of humor hell I know my students think the s=tuff I say is crazy being a street kid form the Bronx I take it with a grain of sand and laugh at some of the imitations
Every group has the inside jokes and rituals as part of a bonding experience,, Having been in the game so long this honestly comes from Americans having been second class citizens in the game and having to adjust to concepts like showing up for a noon class and the teacher not getting there till one and having to accept it's Brazilian time. Guys it's a combat sport we should have a sense of humor hell I know my students think the s=tuff I say is crazy being a street kid form the Bronx I take it with a grain of sand and laugh at some of the imitations
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
No, the original poster is correct.
There is no excuse for humor in this day and age.
We only need to look at the horrible examples set by Mel Brooks, Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Eddie Murphy, and Dave Chappelle to see the negative effect of humor on society.
If we are overly permissive regarding humor, then what is the point of having systems in place to regulate speech, thought, art, etc.
What we should do is carefully record everything everybody says, or writes, and deprive those who make inappropriate jokes, or hurtful comments of their careers, cancel their businesses, and send them to political indoctrination work camps, where they can be mandatorily re-educated for the rest of their lives.
.......
.......
.......
<To the political correctness Overlords, please do not shoot my dog when you come for me, for making the satirical comment above. I have been bad, truly bad, and I regret making a joke about such a serious matter. It won't happen, again. Now please stop playing the Barney song on repeat. I have learned my lesson, this time.>
There is no excuse for humor in this day and age.
We only need to look at the horrible examples set by Mel Brooks, Richard Pryor, George Carlin, Eddie Murphy, and Dave Chappelle to see the negative effect of humor on society.
If we are overly permissive regarding humor, then what is the point of having systems in place to regulate speech, thought, art, etc.
What we should do is carefully record everything everybody says, or writes, and deprive those who make inappropriate jokes, or hurtful comments of their careers, cancel their businesses, and send them to political indoctrination work camps, where they can be mandatorily re-educated for the rest of their lives.
.......
.......
.......
<To the political correctness Overlords, please do not shoot my dog when you come for me, for making the satirical comment above. I have been bad, truly bad, and I regret making a joke about such a serious matter. It won't happen, again. Now please stop playing the Barney song on repeat. I have learned my lesson, this time.>
Edited 5 year(s) ago
DFBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I'm all for respecting folks. Truly. But we now live in a day and age when we seem to be trying to win the most aggrieved award. It's recreational outrage. Folks clutch their pearls, decry said humor, act morally superior, then forget about what they were upset about 15 minutes earlier. It's all a bit childish and silly. We should seek to grow enough self-confidence to laugh at yourself. If one can't do that, it's not a sign of the world being mean to you, but a clear sign of one's insecurity and immaturity. IMHO.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
TPBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I think good ol' punching up vs punching down thing in regards humour applies here. If you're making fun like that over some poor whitebelt out of a favela working two jobs to make ends meet and make it to class - that might not be okay unless he's explicitly down with that, if you're making fun of your coach under whom you train and pay your monthly fee to - more likely OK.
Agreed and in this context it can be even healthy... Imagine this happening in trad. martial arts, with the master present.
We pronounce the Brazilian names with a hard rolling Finnish 'R' and this is mostly funny to them. They speak English with an amusing Brazilian accent, we speak with an amusing Finnish accent. Almost nobody pronounces my name correctly outside of Finland, but the Americans butcher it the worst. :) Typically even the visiting Brazilians will make an effort to learn a few Finnish words/phrases, and enjoy the hilarity that ensues when they shout them out all wrong.
We pronounce the Brazilian names with a hard rolling Finnish 'R' and this is mostly funny to them. They speak English with an amusing Brazilian accent, we speak with an amusing Finnish accent. Almost nobody pronounces my name correctly outside of Finland, but the Americans butcher it the worst. :) Typically even the visiting Brazilians will make an effort to learn a few Finnish words/phrases, and enjoy the hilarity that ensues when they shout them out all wrong.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Agreed and in this context it can be even healthy... Imagine this happening in trad. martial arts, with the master present. We pronounce the Brazilian names with a hard rolling Finnish 'R' and this is mostly funny to them. They speak English with an amusing Brazilian accent, we speak with an amusing Finnish accent. Almost nobody pronounces my name correctly outside of Finland, but the Americans butcher it the worst. :) Typically even the visiting Brazilians will make an effort to learn a few Finnish words/phrases, and enjoy the hilarity that ensues when they shout them out all wrong.
For those non-Finnish who would like to learn how to pronounce the English translation of Tatu's name correctly, it goes something like this:
"Fair, Honest, Efficient, Intelligent, Government, that passes well thought out laws",
or more figuratively,
"Does not Exist".
"Fair, Honest, Efficient, Intelligent, Government, that passes well thought out laws",
or more figuratively,
"Does not Exist".
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I would be honored if someone tried to make fun of Danish accent. Except for Swedes. Not funny, Swedes.
Why should anyone make fun of how people from Baltoscandia talk,
when we could instead make fun of their native cuisine:
https://www.youtube.com/w[...]NVSQgCjVcU
To enjoy the full effect, watch until the end, to see how native dishes from that region are commonly enjoyed by others across the world.
when we could instead make fun of their native cuisine:
https://www.youtube.com/w[...]NVSQgCjVcU
To enjoy the full effect, watch until the end, to see how native dishes from that region are commonly enjoyed by others across the world.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Why should anyone make fun of how people from Baltoscandia talk, when we could instead make fun of their native cuisine: https://www.youtube.com/w[...]NVSQgCjVcU To enjoy the full effect, watch until the end, to see how native dishes from that region are commonly enjoyed by others across the world.
I can't imagine how bad that must have been.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Why should anyone make fun of how people from Baltoscandia talk, when we could instead make fun of their native cuisine: https://www.youtube.com/w[...]NVSQgCjVcU To enjoy the full effect, watch until the end, to see how native dishes from that region are commonly enjoyed by others across the world.
It’s Swedish! Danes are too civilized for that.
MBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Hey I come for New Yawk and everyone else has a funny accent.. Every group has the inside jokes and rituals as part of a bonding experience,, Having been in the game so long this honestly comes from Americans having been second class citizens in the game and having to adjust to concepts like showing up for a noon class and the teacher not getting there till one and having to accept it's Brazilian time. Guys it's a combat sport we should have a sense of humor hell I know my students think the s=tuff I say is crazy being a street kid form the Bronx I take it with a grain of sand and laugh at some of the imitations
I grew up coming from Cape Cod Mass and Boston area but learned very quickly in boot camp to drop the accent. <insert horrible accent here> Yes in this area we pronounce the "r" with an AH. Like Garden would be Gahden, or the most common Park with Pahk . So I always laugh at the jokes with the New York and Boston accents. Now if it were my grandfather with his Irish/Boston accent and he heard you (god rest his soul) he would have given you a pair of Irish sunglasses right quick.
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I grew up coming from Cape Cod Mass and Boston area but learned very quickly in boot camp to drop the accent. <insert horrible accent here> Yes in this area we pronounce the 'r' with an AH. Like Garden would be Gahden, or the most common Park with Pahk . So I always laugh at the jokes with the New York and Boston accents. Now if it were my grandfather with his Irish/Boston accent and he heard you (god rest his soul) he would have given you a pair of Irish sunglasses right quick.
Yes turlet and earl for Toilet and oil for the Bronx accent..
By the way there is no place for jokes and humor as we can't be triggering people it's not like we are fighters or anything..
I am on my way to my safe space because i just saw a picture of lucky charms and the leprechaun and it hurt my sensitive Irish feelings now I can no longer drink and fight because i would be a stereotype
By the way there is no place for jokes and humor as we can't be triggering people it's not like we are fighters or anything..
I am on my way to my safe space because i just saw a picture of lucky charms and the leprechaun and it hurt my sensitive Irish feelings now I can no longer drink and fight because i would be a stereotype
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Eeeh somebody it's-a talking-aaabout accent-a?
RMBrown beltVerified
MBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Yes turlet and earl for Toilet and oil for the Bronx accent.. By the way there is no place for jokes and humor as we can't be triggering people it's not like we are fighters or anything.. I am on my way to my safe space because i just saw a picture of lucky charms and the leprechaun and it hurt my sensitive Irish feelings now I can no longer drink and fight because i would be a stereotype
As they say "Fer Fooks Sake Man" no time for hot cocoa and safe spaces!
RLPurple beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I actually never heard anyone using the English word with the Brazilian accent in a gym or competition. I make fun myself of the Brazilian accent and my Finnish girlfriend thinks it's funny too. I find it amazing when someone pronounces my name "correctly" :)
Like anything in life, if you are not trying to make fun of people and are respectful, a little fun is always welcome :)
Like anything in life, if you are not trying to make fun of people and are respectful, a little fun is always welcome :)
ADPurple beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I think good ol' punching up vs punching down thing in regards humour applies here. If you're making fun like that over some poor whitebelt out of a favela working two jobs to make ends meet and make it to class - that might not be okay unless he's explicitly down with that, if you're making fun of your coach under whom you train and pay your monthly fee to - more likely OK.
There's something there.
My advice is, choose your audience carefully.
My wife is brazilian, and she used to be very sensitive about people making fun of her accent. Now she's comfortable with it, but it took her a while.
I make fun of everyone's accent, as soon as I know people well. Making fun of the accent in itself isn't disrespectful. It's what you say with said accent that's respectful or not.
My advice is, choose your audience carefully.
My wife is brazilian, and she used to be very sensitive about people making fun of her accent. Now she's comfortable with it, but it took her a while.
I make fun of everyone's accent, as soon as I know people well. Making fun of the accent in itself isn't disrespectful. It's what you say with said accent that's respectful or not.
DBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Accent based humour is actually quite complicated. For example:
Doing an accent that has had years of ridicule, e.g. Indian or Chinese accent, will offend.
Doing an accent that has say a sexy association and not used for ridicule e.g. Spanish/Italian/French etc, less likely to offend.
Best to steer clear unless you're a comedian with enough skills to make the content of what is being said with fake accent, funny. Don't you dare cancel Renato Laranja! Man is funny.
Doing an accent that has had years of ridicule, e.g. Indian or Chinese accent, will offend.
Doing an accent that has say a sexy association and not used for ridicule e.g. Spanish/Italian/French etc, less likely to offend.
Best to steer clear unless you're a comedian with enough skills to make the content of what is being said with fake accent, funny. Don't you dare cancel Renato Laranja! Man is funny.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
