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The evolution of your game

5 year(s) ago • 1676 views • 36 replies

Nick Tyau
Nick Tyau
Black belt 1st degreeVerified314 forum posts4290/1000
5 year(s) ago
During the pandemic I’ve had a lot of time to think about the things I want to improve upon when the gyms reopen. This has gotten me to think bout how my game has evolved over time.

-When I started Bjj I liked to pressure pass a lot and would try to transition to back takes and attack from there’s
-as a blue belt I had to move due to school so I changed gyms where the players were more aggressive and I got smashed a lot more and so played a lot of spider guard
-by the time I got to purple belt, I had to move again and my game changed back to guard passing and attacks from side control
-as a brown belt I looked to ways of doing more from side control. I found some fun concepts from catch wrestling (cradles)
-now I’ve been trying to sharpen my takedowns. It helps that my daughter’s virtual bjj class (JT Torres) has been teaching wrestling takedowns. I’ve also been trying to work on learning a leg lock system (via Rob Biernacki instructional)

Tl;dr how has your game evolved or what are you working on?
Daniël Bertina
Daniël Bertina
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified880 forum posts15560/1000
5 year(s) ago
1. Try to win from closed guard.
2. Try to win from open guard.
3. Try to win from top.
4. Try to win by pressure, everywhere.
5. Try to win by twisting legs the wrong way.
6. Try to win by all means necessary.

(failing more then winning)
Edited 5 year(s) ago
Francesco Fonte
Francesco Fonte
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified496 forum posts8855/1000
5 year(s) ago
As a n00b white belt: suck at jiu-jitsu.

As a white belt with a bit more white belt experience, training finally on thin mats and not on the parquet: suck at jiu-jitsu but try omoplatas from everywhere. This until my old teacher told me, next time you try an omoplata I'll break your leg, try something else sometimes ffs. No omoplatas anymore, going back to simply suck at jiu-jitsu while trying to figure out what to do with the collar of other people's gi. Lose some match, win some match somehow. How? I don't know.

As a blue belt suck more than necessary at jiu-jitsu, and more than I care to admit. Fail to be good from closed guard, understand nothing of passing, still keep trying to fake it till I make it (I didn't make it). Lost so many matches to triangles. I think I won only one tournament at blue belt. Those were dark years, we will not go there.

As a purple belt suck so much at jiu-jitsu (particularly at deep half guard which was the craze back then) that started training striking and mma. Keeping losing something and winning something. Suck at guard pulling. because of the suck at guard pulling and the suck at deep half, I ended up so often under the mount that I sucked less at escaping the mount.

For the time I was a brown belt, my game was still "suck at jiu-jitsu" but people started to ask me to help them out. I guess, because I made all possible mistakes and suck at jiu-jitsu at every possible level, so it was easy to me to get what was their mistake. Most noticeably as a brown belt, suck at giving up learning techniques and trying to understand concepts and patterns. Figure out some, than thought i didn't really figured them out after all, started again. Also as a brown belt, suck at takedowns.

I think my game is still stuck at this point now that I'm a black belt who suck at jiu-jitsu, but I added in the mix "suck at leg locks". I have plenty of heuristic and concepts though.
Slideyfoot [jun]
Slideyfoot [jun]
Black belt 1st degreeVerified1900 forum posts3635/1000
5 year(s) ago
Tl;dr how has your game evolved or what are you working on?
Mainly my waist line has evolved, but in terms of drilling during lockdown (in England, it's been mostly lockdown since March 2020), I've been working a lot on Priit's stuff. So, his open guard approach, along with his tweaks to the running escape (which has been my go-to position for a long time now, ever since I learned it off Saulo Ribeiro's old DVDs). Meaning lots of this:

https://www.instagram.com[...]QskjTJQ7r/

In terms of how my game has changed over the last 15 years, not much. Defend defend defend, hide, mostly. While really hating being in open guard.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
Jorgen Matsi
Jorgen Matsi
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified1772 forum posts17315/1000
5 year(s) ago
I started being about escapes because I was the smallest in the group for a few years. Then pressure, top and from bottom closed guard. Then started to add wrestling to everywhere.

Open guard has always sucked due to certain physical limitations I didn't work on early enough. The defining positions of BJJ - open guard and taking the back (and submitting from back)have always been the weakest parts of my own game.

My own game has always been somewhat unsystematic and scattered. I've always been a far better coach to others than myself :)

But I plan to take a real beginner / basics mindset if I get back to training now. Really develop suitable open guard for me and attack the back way more.
Nick Tyau
Nick TyauOP
Black belt 1st degreeVerified314 forum posts4290/1000
5 year(s) ago
1. Try to win from closed guard. 2. Try to win from open guard. 3. Try to win from top. 4. Try to win by pressure, everywhere. 5. Try to win by twisting legs the wrong way. 6. Try to win by all means necessary. (failing more then winning)
Absolutely. Tough part for me is which to work on first. In the past I got distracted easily and would bounce from one area to another. I’ve become more content to settle on one area for longer.
Nick Tyau
Nick TyauOP
Black belt 1st degreeVerified314 forum posts4290/1000
5 year(s) ago
As a n00b white belt: suck at jiu-jitsu. As a white belt with a bit more white belt experience, training finally on thin mats and not on the parquet: suck at jiu-jitsu but try omoplatas from everywhere. This until my old teacher told me, next time you try an omoplata I'll break your leg, try something else sometimes ffs. No omoplatas anymore, going back to simply suck at jiu-jitsu while trying to figure out what to do with the collar of other people's gi. Lose some match, win some match somehow. How? I don't know. As a blue belt suck more than necessary at jiu-jitsu, and more than I care to admit. Fail to be good from closed guard, understand nothing of passing, still keep trying to fake it till I make it (I didn't make it). Lost so many matches to triangles. I think I won only one tournament at blue belt. Those were dark years, we will not go there. As a purple belt suck so much at jiu-jitsu (particularly at deep half guard which was the craze back then) that started training striking and mma. Keeping losing something and winning something. Suck at guard pulling. because of the suck at guard pulling and the suck at deep half, I ended up so often under the mount that I sucked less at escaping the mount. For the time I was a brown belt, my game was still 'suck at jiu-jitsu' but people started to ask me to help them out. I guess, because I made all possible mistakes and suck at jiu-jitsu at every possible level, so it was easy to me to get what was their mistake. Most noticeably as a brown belt, suck at giving up learning techniques and trying to understand concepts and patterns. Figure out some, than thought i didn't really figured them out after all, started again. Also as a brown belt, suck at takedowns. I think my game is still stuck at this point now that I'm a black belt who suck at jiu-jitsu, but I added in the mix 'suck at leg locks'. I have plenty of heuristic and concepts though.
Great way of putting it. The journey for me is trying to suck a little less. I have to say though I still have more areas that I suck a lot in. My teaching skills definitely are very immature and it has further pointed out other areas I need to improve upon
Nick Tyau
Nick TyauOP
Black belt 1st degreeVerified314 forum posts4290/1000
5 year(s) ago
Mainly my waist line has evolved, but in terms of drilling during lockdown (in England, it's been mostly lockdown since March 2020), I've been working a lot on Priit's stuff. So, his open guard approach, along with his tweaks to the running escape (which has been my go-to position for a long time now, ever since I learned it off Saulo Ribeiro's old DVDs). Meaning lots of this: https://www.instagram.com[...]QskjTJQ7r/ In terms of how my game has changed over the last 15 years, not much. Defend defend defend, hide, mostly. While really hating being in open guard.
Open guard is definitely an important and diverse position that can lead to great opportunities. I didn’t really think of it like that in my earlier years since I felt like I sucked at guard play in general. I would play guard long enough to escape or sweep.

Out of curiosity, have all the gyms In England been uniformly shut down since the pandemic ? Here in the USA most gyms shit down for a few weeks or even a few months but then depending on the state you were in, the gyms reopened. Here in nyc, most of the larger gyms are still closed I think
Nick Tyau
Nick TyauOP
Black belt 1st degreeVerified314 forum posts4290/1000
5 year(s) ago
I started being about escapes because I was the smallest in the group for a few years. Then pressure, top and from bottom closed guard. Then started to add wrestling to everywhere. Open guard has always sucked due to certain physical limitations I didn't work on early enough. The defining positions of BJJ - open guard and taking the back (and submitting from back)have always been the weakest parts of my own game. My own game has always been somewhat unsystematic and scattered. I've always been a far better coach to others than myself :) But I plan to take a real beginner / basics mindset if I get back to training now. Really develop suitable open guard for me and attack the back way more.
Cool. I definitely feel as if I’m less in a rush now to learn a lot of techniques. As you mentioned it’s almost like taking a beginner mindset and developing basic strategies that work for you personally. I’m not sure though that I would have been able to appreciate that point if I didn’t struggle through a bunch of other strategies first.
Slideyfoot [jun]
Slideyfoot [jun]
Black belt 1st degreeVerified1900 forum posts3635/1000
5 year(s) ago
Out of curiosity, have all the gyms In England been uniformly shut down since the pandemic ?
Yes, apart from July to October 2020, when non-contact training was legal. No law-abiding gym has been open for normal training since March 2020.

Naturally there are those who choose to break the law. Outside of dubious sartorial choices, I'm not a rule-breaker, so my doors have stayed firmly shut.
Joemoplata
Joemoplata
Black belt 4th degreeVerified762 forum posts3915/1000
5 year(s) ago
When I was a purple belt I was nearly a 100% guard player. Which I was a bit embarrassed by considering my lineage. So I decided that I could only do submissions from top. That forced me to only use sweeps from bottom and work to pass on top. That dramatically changed my game.

At brown belt I asked my coach Francisco Neto to start teaching me Judo and wrestling (he's a 3rd degree Judo black belt and Brazilian National wrestling team member) because again, my lineage didn't match my game. That gave my confidence in an area I previously did not have.

By Black Belt I had my own gym and threw myself into Muay Thai and Judo with our coach Maurice Allan (8th degree Black Belt). This also changed my BJJ game pretty dramatically. Especially the Muay Thai. Some of the concepts gave me different perspective on things happening on the ground.

As the head BJJ coach, it's difficult to train the way I did when I was a student in the BJJ class. My focus now has to be on ensuring that things I am going to want to teach I have worked through for a while because I need to have answers for the "what if they do this?" So now I'm down in the weeds in figuring out WHY something works and what possible counters can arise.

Problem is with COVID I am not actually rolling so I am not getting much chance to do that.

Bobby McMasters
Bobby McMasters
Black belt 1st degreeVerified1272 forum posts12800/1000
5 year(s) ago
I've found that the evolution of my game has been heavily influenced by my chronic injuries and other physical limitations. It's hard to evolve many times unless you're forced to do so.

My main issues ATM involve two arthritic hips and a frozen shoulder. This means no more knee cut passes or underhooking in bottom half guard: two major stalwarts from my former repertoire. I'm very grateful to be practicing a sport/art that allows its practitioners so much freedom to innovate.
Deepu
Deepu
Black beltVerified547 forum posts6260/1000
5 year(s) ago
Started off with a bad knee so was drawn to half guard pretty early on. I think by blue I was already playing half guard, but sucked at it. By purple got a bit better at it. Brown was deep half. Black added turtle.

After sweeps from half, I always liked passing from the knees, again due to having shitty knees and not wanting to stand. This led to pressure passes, mostly over/under and double under.

So yeah, yet another reason to love Jiu Jitsu, you can adapt it to fit your limitations ... much more than other sports imo.
Ruadhán Macfadden
Ruadhán Macfadden
Brown beltVerified73 forum posts5675/700
5 year(s) ago
The defining positions of BJJ - open guard and taking the back (and submitting from back)have always been the weakest parts of my own game.
Did we just become best friends?
Nick Tyau
Nick TyauOP
Black belt 1st degreeVerified314 forum posts4290/1000
5 year(s) ago
When I was a purple belt I was nearly a 100% guard player. Which I was a bit embarrassed by considering my lineage. So I decided that I could only do submissions from top. That forced me to only use sweeps from bottom and work to pass on top. That dramatically changed my game. At brown belt I asked my coach Francisco Neto to start teaching me Judo and wrestling (he's a 3rd degree Judo black belt and Brazilian National wrestling team member) because again, my lineage didn't match my game. That gave my confidence in an area I previously did not have. By Black Belt I had my own gym and threw myself into Muay Thai and Judo with our coach Maurice Allan (8th degree Black Belt). This also changed my BJJ game pretty dramatically. Especially the Muay Thai. Some of the concepts gave me different perspective on things happening on the ground. As the head BJJ coach, it's difficult to train the way I did when I was a student in the BJJ class. My focus now has to be on ensuring that things I am going to want to teach I have worked through for a while because I need to have answers for the 'what if they do this?' So now I'm down in the weeds in figuring out WHY something works and what possible counters can arise. Problem is with COVID I am not actually rolling so I am not getting much chance to do that.
Interesting. I can’t say my game has really matched my lineage. My current professor likes a lot of lapel based strategies and butterfly guard and turtle transitions. Admittedly it probably is in large part to him baiting the weaknesses of my game but he teaches this stuff too.
Ruadhán Macfadden
Ruadhán Macfadden
Brown beltVerified73 forum posts5675/700
5 year(s) ago
I think mine has always followed a fairly constant pattern of Chris Haueter-style "get on top, stay on top". I started grappling in the context of (very amateur) MMA, so that mindset probably just took root early on and never went away. I always had a general aversion to/disinterest in playing guard, which, similar to what Jorgen mentioned above, was surely aided by some physical limitations like short, stocky legs. I think I was a purple belt before I was able to hit triangles with any kind of consistency at all.

I've always loved the standup side of grappling, which initially meant just nogi/wrestling, but recently took a swerve off towards the jacketed side of things too. I think I've watched nothing but Judo, Sambo, and Inner Mongolian Bökh videos for the past year of lockdown, for instance, and I'm probably gonna emerge back into civilisation with one lopsided Resident Evil-esque arm from all the balcony uchikomis I've been doing.

Apart from that...

Guard game: Basically "make space and stand up", combined with a random mix of Williams Guard and knee shield.
Side control: The Roy Marsh - https://youtu.be/ws4sk2y0wHA
Mount: Switch back to side control -> Roy Marsh
Back: Switch back to mount -> side control -> Roy Marsh

Taking bookings for seminars now!
Slideyfoot [jun]
Slideyfoot [jun]
Black belt 1st degreeVerified1900 forum posts3635/1000
5 year(s) ago
I always had a general aversion to/disinterest in playing guard, which, similar to what Jorgen mentioned above, was surely aided by some physical limitations like short, stocky legs.
Yeah, similar in my case, I'm not too far off Jorgen's height (though he is much buffer than me). I was more of a guard player earlier on, then a neck injury made me focus on top instead. Since then, I've been all about the top game (when I can get there. Against anybody good or even just ok, I'll end up spending most of the spar on the bottom doing my defensive stuff. Unless they're small).
Joshua Wentworth
Joshua Wentworth
Black belt 1st degreeVerified30 forum posts2840/1000
5 year(s) ago
I think mine has always followed a fairly constant pattern of Chris Haueter-style 'get on top, stay on top'. I started grappling in the context of (very amateur) MMA, so that mindset probably just took root early on and never went away. I always had a general aversion to/disinterest in playing guard, which, similar to what Jorgen mentioned above, was surely aided by some physical limitations like short, stocky legs. I think I was a purple belt before I was able to hit triangles with any kind of consistency at all. I've always loved the standup side of grappling, which initially meant just nogi/wrestling, but recently took a swerve off towards the jacketed side of things too. I think I've watched nothing but Judo, Sambo, and Inner Mongolian Bökh videos for the past year of lockdown, for instance, and I'm probably gonna emerge back into civilisation with one lopsided Resident Evil-esque arm from all the balcony uchikomis I've been doing. Apart from that... Guard game: Basically 'make space and stand up', combined with a random mix of Williams Guard and knee shield. Side control: The Roy Marsh - https://youtu.be/ws4sk2y0wHA Mount: Switch back to side control -> Roy Marsh Back: Switch back to mount -> side control -> Roy Marsh Taking bookings for seminars now!
Another Brutal Side Control connoisseur I see.
Mirco
Mirco
Brown beltVerified805 forum posts5075/700
5 year(s) ago
.......Side control: The Roy Marsh - https://youtu.be/ws4sk2y0wHA Mount: Switch back to side control -> Roy Marsh Back: Switch back to mount -> side control -> Roy Marsh Taking bookings for seminars now!
Man, i love Roy‘s heavy, smothering top game....
We improved our games so much since training with him and his style fits me perfectly, as I am not the super flexible guard player...

Sean Brandle
Sean Brandle
Black belt 1st degreeVerified236 forum posts1320/1000
5 year(s) ago
I've found that the evolution of my game has been heavily influenced by my chronic injuries and other physical limitations. It's hard to evolve many times unless you're forced to do so. My main issues ATM involve two arthritic hips and a frozen shoulder. This means no more knee cut passes or underhooking in bottom half guard: two major stalwarts from my former repertoire. I'm very grateful to be practicing a sport/art that allows its practitioners so much freedom to innovate.
I have a torn labrum on my left side. I get cortisone shots twice a year and it helps a ton. When my shoulder is bad my half-guard game is so bad that it's just no fun to roll.

That brings me to the question of the thread. I figure I'd strip my game down and build it back up once (assuming) I get my black belt. I want to develop a strong closed guard game where you know what is coming but there is nothing you can do to stop it.


Nick Tyau
Nick TyauOP
Black belt 1st degreeVerified314 forum posts4290/1000
5 year(s) ago
I think mine has always followed a fairly constant pattern of Chris Haueter-style 'get on top, stay on top'. I started grappling in the context of (very amateur) MMA, so that mindset probably just took root early on and never went away. I always had a general aversion to/disinterest in playing guard, which, similar to what Jorgen mentioned above, was surely aided by some physical limitations like short, stocky legs. I think I was a purple belt before I was able to hit triangles with any kind of consistency at all. I've always loved the standup side of grappling, which initially meant just nogi/wrestling, but recently took a swerve off towards the jacketed side of things too. I think I've watched nothing but Judo, Sambo, and Inner Mongolian Bökh videos for the past year of lockdown, for instance, and I'm probably gonna emerge back into civilisation with one lopsided Resident Evil-esque arm from all the balcony uchikomis I've been doing. Apart from that... Guard game: Basically 'make space and stand up', combined with a random mix of Williams Guard and knee shield. Side control: The Roy Marsh - https://youtu.be/ws4sk2y0wHA Mount: Switch back to side control -> Roy Marsh Back: Switch back to mount -> side control -> Roy Marsh Taking bookings for seminars now!
I just got around to watching that Roy marsh video, that’s cool! Sort of reminds me of Relsons style, putting nasty little details to increase compliance
R. David Gonzalez
R. David Gonzalez
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4764 forum posts34325/1000
5 year(s) ago
Started as a closed guard guy for sweeps and subs then all the other the guards.
Moved on to sweeping to get top position to finished and focused alot on guard passing and working to take the back from everywhere.
Pretty much worked on most positions depending on my mood or what I learned here and there.
now I'm back to being a guard guy because of my back issues. Just happy and thankful to be active.

also spent alot of time working on escapes from subs and bad spots
Edited 5 year(s) ago
Ruadhán Macfadden
Ruadhán Macfadden
Brown beltVerified73 forum posts5675/700
5 year(s) ago
Man, i love Roy‘s heavy, smothering top game.... We improved our games so much since training with him and his style fits me perfectly, as I am not the super flexible guard player...
For the longest time I had no idea he was based in Germany. I just watched his videos and assumed he was in some random place in the US. Then I saw him wandering around at Submissao in Karlsruhe and thought I'd eaten too much cheap acai.
Jorgen Matsi
Jorgen Matsi
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified1772 forum posts17315/1000
5 year(s) ago
I have a torn labrum on my left side. I get cortisone shots twice a year and it helps a ton. When my shoulder is bad my half-guard game is so bad that it's just no fun to roll. That brings me to the question of the thread. I figure I'd strip my game down and build it back up once (assuming) I get my black belt. I want to develop a strong closed guard game where you know what is coming but there is nothing you can do to stop it.
Wim Deputters (and Priit's shit) has got me thinking that this might be just impossible. Closed guard is essentially a four point pin and if there is no explicit stalling rule for top person to take unnecessary risks, he can at least stall and neutralise and likely move slowly towards more advantageous position unless there is a noticeable discrepancy in skill and/or physical attributes in favour of bottom guard.

This is especially true for no-gi but I think it might be for gi as well.

If there are rules/agreements to enforce activity then it's a different matter of course.

(actually we in our club sometimes prohibit closed guard in sparring for more than 10 seconds specifically and in MOST cases say if there has been 1-2 minutes in closed guard without either side getting anything going - open up and play open)
Mirco
Mirco
Brown beltVerified805 forum posts5075/700
5 year(s) ago
For the longest time I had no idea he was based in Germany. I just watched his videos and assumed he was in some random place in the US. Then I saw him wandering around at Submissao in Karlsruhe and thought I'd eaten too much cheap acai.
Yeah, he moved from North Carolina to Germany some years ago and was in Münster/ North Rhine Westphalia first, but then moved to Villingen-Schwenningen where he is the headcoach of Gracie Schwarzwald... I love his teaching style!
Liam Hajdar Wandi
Liam Hajdar Wandi
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified43 forum posts1785/1000
5 year(s) ago
Closed guard is essentially a four point pin and if there is no explicit stalling rule for top person to take unnecessary risks, he can at least stall and neutralise and likely move slowly towards more advantageous position unless there is a noticeable discrepancy in skill and/or physical attributes in favour of bottom guard. This is especially true for no-gi but I think it might be for gi as well. If there are rules/agreements to enforce activity then it's a different matter of course. (actually we in our club sometimes prohibit closed guard in sparring for more than 10 seconds specifically and in MOST cases say if there has been 1-2 minutes in closed guard without either side getting anything going - open up and play open)
This is interesting. I love it!!! A very cool rule.

I remember Ryron once telling me: "Jiujitsu has perfect defence. If there was another identical copy of me and we sparred, neither of us would get tapped!"

Christian Graugart
Christian Graugart
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4323 forum posts39320/1000
5 year(s) ago
My game has changed dramatically over the years and it was always dictated by injuries I've had to work around. Overall, though, I would say my focus has moved through self defense -> MMA -> BJJ for competition -> BJJ for social/fitness. Enjoyed every stage of it and very happy with being a hobbyist BJJ dad at this point :)
Nick Tyau
Nick TyauOP
Black belt 1st degreeVerified314 forum posts4290/1000
5 year(s) ago
My game has changed dramatically over the years and it was always dictated by injuries I've had to work around. Overall, though, I would say my focus has moved through self defense -> MMA -> BJJ for competition -> BJJ for social/fitness. Enjoyed every stage of it and very happy with being a hobbyist BJJ dad at this point :)
Christian when you say you started at self defense, what did that look like for you? Was this the old school Gracie self defense curriculum (escaping head locks, bear hugs, etc)?

The thought of self defense is always near the top of why I train though that being said, I’m not a fan of sport vs self defense debates since depending on the scenario, either approach may be effective or neither may be effective. I like learning about all the different positions whether or not they would be effective in “the streets”.
Christian Graugart
Christian Graugart
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4323 forum posts39320/1000
5 year(s) ago
Christian when you say you started at self defense, what did that look like for you? Was this the old school Gracie self defense curriculum (escaping head locks, bear hugs, etc)?
No, BJJ didn't exist in Denmark back then so it was more like in-house Vale Tudo competitions and wearing scooter helmets while trying to beat up each other with homemade weapons.

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