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Self-Defense Lessons Learned
5 year(s) ago • 1618 views • 31 replies
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Greetings, good people! Have any of you used your training for self-defense, especially where deadly force was part of the equation? If so, what were your lessons learned, and was it so profound that you had a paradigm shift in regards to your self-defense mindset and/or training? Thanks!
Jeff
Jeff
Brown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I’ve used grappling as a form of self defence during my time as a doorman here in Sunny Wolverhampton.
It’s never made me feel like Steven Seagal but it’s always made me feel confident that I at least understand range, clinch and basic strike avoidance more than the average Joe.
I once mounted someone in a situation in a pub after taking him down with a beautiful Hank. However, the biggest lesson I took from that situation was that no amount of BJJ is going to stop your attackers friends from volleying you in the dome.
I treat all training sessions as a catalyst for self defence these days. I consciously consider the risk variants of all positions now from both a sports and martial arts / street situation perspective.
It’s better than knowing nothing I will say that much.
It’s never made me feel like Steven Seagal but it’s always made me feel confident that I at least understand range, clinch and basic strike avoidance more than the average Joe.
I once mounted someone in a situation in a pub after taking him down with a beautiful Hank. However, the biggest lesson I took from that situation was that no amount of BJJ is going to stop your attackers friends from volleying you in the dome.
I treat all training sessions as a catalyst for self defence these days. I consciously consider the risk variants of all positions now from both a sports and martial arts / street situation perspective.
It’s better than knowing nothing I will say that much.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
My bjj and fma training has taught me a great deal about mindset and the the whole mental Jiu Jitsu thing. Specifically, the concept of the frozen lake, which is a sayoc kali concept. Check out Ethan Suplee’s podcast with Tom Kier for more info. https://www.americanglutt[...]net/listen
I was at a festival once with some friends and my family. We were in line for face painting with our kids and a bunch of kids cut the line. My friend said something to them and they left but suddenly their mother who was several people behind us yelled for them to get into line and called their father who walked up and told them to get back in line. A number of the other people in line confirmed these kids left the line. The father basically said his kids were going to stay there and vaguely hinted that he wanted to see someone say otherwise. I wanted to respond and felt confident that if it came to a physical one on one unarmed conflict, I would feel comfortable in my abilities, however, the frozen lake came to mind and I thought about the consequences of further engaging this individual at the risk of what it would mean for me, my friend, my family.
As cliche as it sounds, the more I train, the more I find reasons not to engage in physical confrontations. Most of the time it’s not worth it
I was at a festival once with some friends and my family. We were in line for face painting with our kids and a bunch of kids cut the line. My friend said something to them and they left but suddenly their mother who was several people behind us yelled for them to get into line and called their father who walked up and told them to get back in line. A number of the other people in line confirmed these kids left the line. The father basically said his kids were going to stay there and vaguely hinted that he wanted to see someone say otherwise. I wanted to respond and felt confident that if it came to a physical one on one unarmed conflict, I would feel comfortable in my abilities, however, the frozen lake came to mind and I thought about the consequences of further engaging this individual at the risk of what it would mean for me, my friend, my family.
As cliche as it sounds, the more I train, the more I find reasons not to engage in physical confrontations. Most of the time it’s not worth it
Brown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I once mounted someone in a situation in a pub after taking him down with a beautiful Hank.
Gonna shamelessly diverge from the actual topic to ask you about this, since I'm interested to see an old wrestling term like that pop up. By Hank, do you mean an Uchi Mata (which is I believe what they call it in modern Catch Wrestling) or the Cumberland and Westmorland-style "grapevine the leg and slam him backwards"?
Brown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Gonna shamelessly diverge from the actual topic to ask you about this, since I'm interested to see an old wrestling term like that pop up. By Hank, do you mean an Uchi Mata (which is I believe what they call it in modern Catch Wrestling) or the Cumberland and Westmorland-style 'grapevine the leg and slam him backwards'?
Uchi my man.
Blue beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Used judo on the doors in Manchester, without sitting on my butt and enticing them in to a ground contest! Full on Harai goshi and o Soto gari has been used to remain in control whilst still standing at the end of the throw.
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Nope. in 23 years of training I have talked down every situation where someone wanted to actually throw fisticuffs. And those situations were at work or on the highway. I don't drink, go to bars or clubs, or hang out with stupid people in stupid places so the chances of me needing to defend myself in a hand to hand combat situation are almost zero.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Nope. in 23 years of training I have talked down every situation where someone wanted to actually throw fisticuffs. And those situations were at work or on the highway. I don't drink, go to bars or clubs, or hang out with stupid people in stupid places so the chances of me needing to defend myself in a hand to hand combat situation are almost zero.
Agreed. Even in weapons based systems that I train in, we discuss the ability to minimize risk or to see the potential conflict unfolding as a “preemptive attack”. This sort of mindset in my view the path to mastery. Of course all the while concurrently training ways to defend against numerous scenarios of violence.
Some of the most impressive displays of deescalation/mental Jiu Jitsu are when I see an instructor turn a potential conflict into an ally. Frequently at fma seminars, other students from other systems will come to check out the material. Some of them come in a try to show things to the other participants. The delivery of my instructor though is not to challenge and embarrass anyone but to demonstrate his interpretation in a given scenario and have his instruction speak for itself. This usually results in a few more participants joining, including some challengers
Some of the most impressive displays of deescalation/mental Jiu Jitsu are when I see an instructor turn a potential conflict into an ally. Frequently at fma seminars, other students from other systems will come to check out the material. Some of them come in a try to show things to the other participants. The delivery of my instructor though is not to challenge and embarrass anyone but to demonstrate his interpretation in a given scenario and have his instruction speak for itself. This usually results in a few more participants joining, including some challengers
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Agreed. Even in weapons based systems that I train in, we discuss the ability to minimize risk or to see the potential conflict unfolding as a “preemptive attack”. This sort of mindset in my view the path to mastery. Of course all the while concurrently training ways to defend against numerous scenarios of violence. Some of the most impressive displays of deescalation/mental Jiu Jitsu are when I see an instructor turn a potential conflict into an ally. Frequently at fma seminars, other students from other systems will come to check out the material. Some of them come in a try to show things to the other participants. The delivery of my instructor though is not to challenge and embarrass anyone but to demonstrate his interpretation in a given scenario and have his instruction speak for itself. This usually results in a few more participants joining, including some challengers
I don't "train" de-escalation, though. I have no intention of getting in a fight anytime soon and so, I don't train that way. It's just what I need to do to avoid going to jail and/or being sued.
We talk about in more in our defensive shooting class but not in our BJJ, Muay Thai or Judo classes. I don't think there's been one single instance at my gym that an adult other than law enforcement has needed to use their training in a "fight".
We hear stories from the LEO community all the time, especially the DC police.
We talk about in more in our defensive shooting class but not in our BJJ, Muay Thai or Judo classes. I don't think there's been one single instance at my gym that an adult other than law enforcement has needed to use their training in a "fight".
We hear stories from the LEO community all the time, especially the DC police.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
True. I’m not going to pretend I am a subject matter expert in this since I have neither the training or experience, but on the few occasions I teach I do like to spend some time discussing scenarios. I think mental reps have some use. Especially when it comes to verbal altercations. Managing an adrenaline dump is really hard and spending some time thinking/talking about things like distancing, body language, being aware of hand placement prior to being in an altercation could help to install some of these ideas. I also think facilitating discussion helps me to rep things too
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
True. I’m not going to pretend I am a subject matter expert in this since I have neither the training or experience, but on the few occasions I teach I do like to spend some time discussing scenarios. I think mental reps have some use. Especially when it comes to verbal altercations. Managing an adrenaline dump is really hard and spending some time thinking/talking about things like distancing, body language, being aware of hand placement prior to being in an altercation could help to install some of these ideas. I also think facilitating discussion helps me to rep things too
I don't disagree.
It's like when I got CPR certified. The coach wanted me to actually yell "HELP" during the course. I thought that was stupid and pointless. You're not judging my acting capability. In a real situation I will be yelling. This isn't real.
But I get it. I hate it. But I get it.
It's like when I got CPR certified. The coach wanted me to actually yell "HELP" during the course. I thought that was stupid and pointless. You're not judging my acting capability. In a real situation I will be yelling. This isn't real.
But I get it. I hate it. But I get it.
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
i have always gotten a kick out of the concept of self defense experts when most even with a like time of training have never dealt with real violence.
I grew up in the Bronx and my father was in the Westies and I have been around people who used violence as a commodity for long stretches of my life.. My father did time for manslaughter and arson one of my uncles died in prison on a murder charge.
I had my first professional fight in Burma at 15 and was there during the SLORC takeover and all hell breaking loose. The fights where sponsored by people like Khun SAh a drug lord whop ran the Mon Thai Army and I used my connections to sell drugs.
I have been shot twice and stabbed/ slashed on several occasions along with being attacked with everything from a baseball bat to a car and I believe there is no such thing as a self defense expert or self defense itself for that matter.. Violence has no rules and is complete chaos you prepare as best you can, react to chaos and survive
I have also worked with military units and in conversations they understand better that most that plans and scenarios go to hell quickly you prepare to react nothing more.. You plan, you rehearse, you break things down and when shit hits the fan you pray and react
I grew up in the Bronx and my father was in the Westies and I have been around people who used violence as a commodity for long stretches of my life.. My father did time for manslaughter and arson one of my uncles died in prison on a murder charge.
I had my first professional fight in Burma at 15 and was there during the SLORC takeover and all hell breaking loose. The fights where sponsored by people like Khun SAh a drug lord whop ran the Mon Thai Army and I used my connections to sell drugs.
I have been shot twice and stabbed/ slashed on several occasions along with being attacked with everything from a baseball bat to a car and I believe there is no such thing as a self defense expert or self defense itself for that matter.. Violence has no rules and is complete chaos you prepare as best you can, react to chaos and survive
I have also worked with military units and in conversations they understand better that most that plans and scenarios go to hell quickly you prepare to react nothing more.. You plan, you rehearse, you break things down and when shit hits the fan you pray and react
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
i have always gotten a kick out of the concept of self defense experts when most even with a like time of training have never dealt with real violence. I grew up in the Bronx and my father was in the Westies and I have been around people who used violence as a commodity for long stretches of my life.. My father did time for manslaughter and arson one of my uncles died in prison on a murder charge. I had my first professional fight in Burma at 15 and was there during the SLORC takeover and all hell breaking loose. The fights where sponsored by people like Khun SAh a drug lord whop ran the Mon Thai Army and I used my connections to sell drugs. I have been shot twice and stabbed/ slashed on several occasions along with being attacked with everything from a baseball bat to a car and I believe there is no such thing as a self defense expert or self defense itself for that matter.. Violence has no rules and is complete chaos you prepare as best you can, react to chaos and survive I have also worked with military units and in conversations they understand better that most that plans and scenarios go to hell quickly you prepare to react nothing more.. You plan, you rehearse, you break things down and when shit hits the fan you pray and react
+1000
Black beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
i have always gotten a kick out of the concept of self defense experts when most even with a like time of training have never dealt with real violence. I grew up in the Bronx and my father was in the Westies and I have been around people who used violence as a commodity for long stretches of my life.. My father did time for manslaughter and arson one of my uncles died in prison on a murder charge. I had my first professional fight in Burma at 15 and was there during the SLORC takeover and all hell breaking loose. The fights where sponsored by people like Khun SAh a drug lord whop ran the Mon Thai Army and I used my connections to sell drugs. I have been shot twice and stabbed/ slashed on several occasions along with being attacked with everything from a baseball bat to a car and I believe there is no such thing as a self defense expert or self defense itself for that matter.. Violence has no rules and is complete chaos you prepare as best you can, react to chaos and survive I have also worked with military units and in conversations they understand better that most that plans and scenarios go to hell quickly you prepare to react nothing more.. You plan, you rehearse, you break things down and when shit hits the fan you pray and react
You need to write a book! I'd be all over that.
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
You need to write a book! I'd be all over that.
This.
This is a good idea.
My good friend and former teammate Chris Dietzel could even be your ghost writer.
This is a good idea.
My good friend and former teammate Chris Dietzel could even be your ghost writer.
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
This. This is a good idea. My good friend and former teammate Chris Dietzel could even be your ghost writer.
I have been approached several times in the past and never really considered it but after the cancer I started to think of it and a recurring pancrease issue causing me to lose about 15 lbs quick has me thinking I will if I can get a good ghostwriter.. I want to get my curriculum down on video, get the history of the Kachin arts writen up and also possibly my story as I thought originally when the weight started stripping the cancer was back and it made me realize even though it's not at 58 the reality is I am a short timer
Brown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Would love to see a book on the history and culture of the Kachin arts from you. That's a treasure-trove of knowledge that probably no one else in the English speaking world will ever have again.
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Would love to see a book on the history and culture of the Kachin arts from you. That's a treasure-trove of knowledge that probably no one else in the English speaking world will ever have again.
I always thnk to myself how lucky in a way the cosmos decided to make me.. I got involved in an obscure martial art due to an accident of birth
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Greetings, good people! Have any of you used your training for self-defense, especially where deadly force was part of the equation? If so, what were your lessons learned, and was it so profound that you had a paradigm shift in regards to your self-defense mindset and/or training? Thanks! Jeff
Nope. I am faaaaar too middle class to actually fight anybody. I barely spar in BJJ, so I most definitely don't go anywhere near conflict in real life. :P
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I used BJJ to perform a citizens arrest. The guy I arrested had been sexually harassing and assaulting one of my English language students. It looked like he was going to hit me when I cornered him, so I clinched and did a hip throw. Got on mount and got my coworkers to call the police. What I learned is the optics of the situation matters; I was challenged in court about using such force when he hadn't even thrown a punch. I am physically much bigger than the guy. Luckily that didn't really have an impact on the conviction, but it did give me some insight into how courts view things we do as standard in BJJ. What likely helped was that I didn't hurt the guy; if I had clocked him it might have been a different story.
Good point. there are always two battles to fight
Black beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I’ve used grappling as a form of self defence during my time as a doorman here in Sunny Wolverhampton. It’s never made me feel like Steven Seagal but it’s always made me feel confident that I at least understand range, clinch and basic strike avoidance more than the average Joe. I once mounted someone in a situation in a pub after taking him down with a beautiful Hank. However, the biggest lesson I took from that situation was that no amount of BJJ is going to stop your attackers friends from volleying you in the dome. I treat all training sessions as a catalyst for self defence these days. I consciously consider the risk variants of all positions now from both a sports and martial arts / street situation perspective. It’s better than knowing nothing I will say that much.
I was a bouncer for a few years, and my training served its purpose more than once. I had a guy on the ground once, I was pulling him off the bar and we slipped. His buddy tried punching me in the head. I moved my head and he socked his friend real good. It was pretty funny!
Brown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I am definitely not a fighter and always was lucky in relation to self defense, although all my martial arts/combat sports training definitely served me well so far, i would say. Like "Joemoplata" most of the time i could deescalate and defuse situations. I am a family guy in the mid 40s and don't go out to pubs, etc. very often or to to possibly dangerous places in my freetime anymore.
Several years ago a good friend i had an altercation late at night at a train station on the way home- we 2 were attacked by 3 drunken guys, who obviously wanted to have trouble and started attacking us, as i wasn't able to deescalate or defuse the situation. So we managed to defend ourselves, my friend, who doesn't train any combat sport, got a black eye and a sprained hand, i was clipped in the head one or two times, but not really bad. We could ran away after fighting them off and grab a taxi.
On duty in prison i was heavily attacked only 2 times in twenty years (good ratio so far, i think). On one occasion, in 2013, a 120kg guy with mental issues was lucky and punched me full force in the head out of the blue (luckily nose wasn't broken,but of course lots of blood , some bruises and swolen eye.) I was glad i didn't get knocked out and we could take him down with the teammates and restrain him. Man, i was aware, years of training, had my guard high and still he got me....bad luck. So getting hit in the head in training/sparring definitely helped me i think.
Another inmate tried to punch me in the face 2 or 3 years ago, but this time i could cover up the head immediately and bring him down for control instantly, teammates were with me in that situation so control and cuffing was easy.
Well, in all other countless planned situations, like cell extractions and controling and cuffing resisting inmates with the team, transports of resisting inmates, etc... of course you have to use force and often it is a violent atmosphere, but it is all professional teamwork and tactics, most of the time nobody gets hurt on either site- that's always the goal.
Overall i would say my BJJ/ martials arts training helped me in all this situations, being confident in my self, not to freak out, stay calm under pressure... and of course knowing some bjj helps on the physical site, too.
Several years ago a good friend i had an altercation late at night at a train station on the way home- we 2 were attacked by 3 drunken guys, who obviously wanted to have trouble and started attacking us, as i wasn't able to deescalate or defuse the situation. So we managed to defend ourselves, my friend, who doesn't train any combat sport, got a black eye and a sprained hand, i was clipped in the head one or two times, but not really bad. We could ran away after fighting them off and grab a taxi.
On duty in prison i was heavily attacked only 2 times in twenty years (good ratio so far, i think). On one occasion, in 2013, a 120kg guy with mental issues was lucky and punched me full force in the head out of the blue (luckily nose wasn't broken,but of course lots of blood , some bruises and swolen eye.) I was glad i didn't get knocked out and we could take him down with the teammates and restrain him. Man, i was aware, years of training, had my guard high and still he got me....bad luck. So getting hit in the head in training/sparring definitely helped me i think.
Another inmate tried to punch me in the face 2 or 3 years ago, but this time i could cover up the head immediately and bring him down for control instantly, teammates were with me in that situation so control and cuffing was easy.
Well, in all other countless planned situations, like cell extractions and controling and cuffing resisting inmates with the team, transports of resisting inmates, etc... of course you have to use force and often it is a violent atmosphere, but it is all professional teamwork and tactics, most of the time nobody gets hurt on either site- that's always the goal.
Overall i would say my BJJ/ martials arts training helped me in all this situations, being confident in my self, not to freak out, stay calm under pressure... and of course knowing some bjj helps on the physical site, too.
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I have one tidbit to add.
Situational awareness.
I once tried to play the hero and try to verbally deescalate a violent guy in the subway station, who had just punched his girlfriend.
When he turned to me, seemed to grab something from his waist (i thought, well.. If that's a knife I'm dead), but he shoved me into a concrete pillar.
Which was right behind me, which I hadn't seen. I bounced the back of my head into it and was semi knocked out for a few minutes.
Dude could have ended me, but ran away cursing.
Bad day for me. Lessons learned. Be aware of your goddamn surroundings at all times.
Situational awareness.
I once tried to play the hero and try to verbally deescalate a violent guy in the subway station, who had just punched his girlfriend.
When he turned to me, seemed to grab something from his waist (i thought, well.. If that's a knife I'm dead), but he shoved me into a concrete pillar.
Which was right behind me, which I hadn't seen. I bounced the back of my head into it and was semi knocked out for a few minutes.
Dude could have ended me, but ran away cursing.
Bad day for me. Lessons learned. Be aware of your goddamn surroundings at all times.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I have been approached several times in the past and never really considered it but after the cancer I started to think of it and a recurring pancrease issue causing me to lose about 15 lbs quick has me thinking I will if I can get a good ghostwriter.. I want to get my curriculum down on video, get the history of the Kachin arts writen up and also possibly my story as I thought originally when the weight started stripping the cancer was back and it made me realize even though it's not at 58 the reality is I am a short timer
Phil, it's a great idea!
You might want to get in touch with Beltchecker member Scott Burr. Scott is a published novelist, and recently penned Richard Bressler's memoires Worth Defending.
You might want to get in touch with Beltchecker member Scott Burr. Scott is a published novelist, and recently penned Richard Bressler's memoires Worth Defending.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I was 17. A bum pulled a knife on me. I was able to Aikido-wristlock him (I had done 2 years of Aikido by that time) and remove the knife.
Brown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I was 17. A bum pulled a knife on me. I was able to Aikido-wristlock him (I had done 2 years of Aikido by that time) and remove the knife.
Did you cut his ear off as a kind of ‘keep sake’?
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Did you cut his ear off as a kind of ‘keep sake’?
No I was scared shitless and ran... he actually was like "Dude... can I at least have my knife back..."
Brown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
No I was scared shitless and ran... he actually was like 'Dude... can I at least have my knife back...'
The minerals of these guys. Can’t knock the hussle!
Blue beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I've only been studying jiu-jitsu 20 months and haven't had to use it in real life.
I was attacked and almost killed when I was 10, by another girl my age. That probably doesn't sound scary; it was. She had done something to my severely autistic 8yo brother's wrist (I think she tried to slash it) and had struck him and my 4yo sister repeatedly. I tried to attack her. We went to the ground; it went badly for me.
She then disappeared into the kitchen and returned with her hands full of knives. I was trying to herd my 3 siblings (8, 6, 4) into the master bedroom so we could lock the door and call the police. She raised the knives and screamed and ran at me.
She kept pulling the phone jacks out of the walls and wouldn't let us call the police, and also wouldn't stop hitting my siblings, so I made the call to get my siblings out and get to a neighbor's to call the police.
I Google'd her a few years ago. She's now a roller derby champion.
I've looked back at that a lot. Overall, running away was absolutely the right answer. But would jiu-jitsu have helped? She probably had 15-20 lbs on my skinny girl butt and a lot more muscle than me. I do think I would have done better in our ground fight. I think I would have defended my siblings better.
But mostly, I think jiu-jitsu would have taught me to run away even faster than I did. People who hit are dangerous. People who hit defenseless small/disabled children are especially dangerous.
I was attacked and almost killed when I was 10, by another girl my age. That probably doesn't sound scary; it was. She had done something to my severely autistic 8yo brother's wrist (I think she tried to slash it) and had struck him and my 4yo sister repeatedly. I tried to attack her. We went to the ground; it went badly for me.
She then disappeared into the kitchen and returned with her hands full of knives. I was trying to herd my 3 siblings (8, 6, 4) into the master bedroom so we could lock the door and call the police. She raised the knives and screamed and ran at me.
She kept pulling the phone jacks out of the walls and wouldn't let us call the police, and also wouldn't stop hitting my siblings, so I made the call to get my siblings out and get to a neighbor's to call the police.
I Google'd her a few years ago. She's now a roller derby champion.
I've looked back at that a lot. Overall, running away was absolutely the right answer. But would jiu-jitsu have helped? She probably had 15-20 lbs on my skinny girl butt and a lot more muscle than me. I do think I would have done better in our ground fight. I think I would have defended my siblings better.
But mostly, I think jiu-jitsu would have taught me to run away even faster than I did. People who hit are dangerous. People who hit defenseless small/disabled children are especially dangerous.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Whoa Bridget, that's an insane story.
How did that demon child get into your house?
How did that demon child get into your house?


