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Most used guards in Jiu-Jitsu Today?
6 year(s) ago • 1543 views • 23 replies
JPBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
What do you guys think are the most used guard in BJJ today? Gi and Nogi?
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Conan, what is good in life?
Take your opponent down.
Land in cross body.
Crush his body when land.
Hear the lamentations of his women.
Take your opponent down.
Land in cross body.
Crush his body when land.
Hear the lamentations of his women.
![Slideyfoot [jun]](userimg/5e25cf311adfd.jpg){kind=small}
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I would watch the hell out of Conan the Barbarian: BJJ Edition. :D
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I tried to get this talk going in "meta" thread.
What I think is we are moving beyond "guards". No open guard position can be statically held against a competent person. It's about timing and pummeling. And that's a normal "sport" thing to do.
So basically open guard is just like pummeling in wrestling or gripfighting in judo where you name certain positions as underhook, overhook, collar grip etc for clarity, however it's not like anyone is talked about as being an "overhook specialist". Everyone has their favourite grips and scoring positions and finishing techniques (sweeps and subs) but what makes you good is the dynamics between the positions, the setup etc. And it's all happening dynamically.
The only difference between judo and wrestling standup gripfighting is that in standup positions are symmetrical. In open guard vs passing the positions are fundamentally asymmetrical - one person constantly uses 4 limbs and doesn't worry about own balance, other person can use gravity for pressure but has to worry about balance.
So while I teach in the beginning as guards and positions as well then from high blue it doesn't matter that much anymore. Wish someone would've taught me this way.
Maybe it only makes sense to separate closed, open, half, turtle a bit longer and systematically, because the isolation/specifics is more clear.
What I think is we are moving beyond "guards". No open guard position can be statically held against a competent person. It's about timing and pummeling. And that's a normal "sport" thing to do.
So basically open guard is just like pummeling in wrestling or gripfighting in judo where you name certain positions as underhook, overhook, collar grip etc for clarity, however it's not like anyone is talked about as being an "overhook specialist". Everyone has their favourite grips and scoring positions and finishing techniques (sweeps and subs) but what makes you good is the dynamics between the positions, the setup etc. And it's all happening dynamically.
The only difference between judo and wrestling standup gripfighting is that in standup positions are symmetrical. In open guard vs passing the positions are fundamentally asymmetrical - one person constantly uses 4 limbs and doesn't worry about own balance, other person can use gravity for pressure but has to worry about balance.
So while I teach in the beginning as guards and positions as well then from high blue it doesn't matter that much anymore. Wish someone would've taught me this way.
Maybe it only makes sense to separate closed, open, half, turtle a bit longer and systematically, because the isolation/specifics is more clear.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I think what I see most is that half guard (I think that is what it's called - one foot in) with the knee shield and frame.
Seems to be the go to position for alot of the guard players. I rarely see a full blown closed guard anymore.
Seems to be the go to position for alot of the guard players. I rarely see a full blown closed guard anymore.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
DQBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Obtaining statistics on guards is inherently problematic in terms of defining what to count as a guard and when. As in, does it only count after being held for 3 seconds like a pass, does this reset where you are transitioning between guards, how specific do you go in differentiating guards (are x, slx and wrong-legged x different guards or all x-guard variants ec.), do you breakdown by total time held or number of guards obtained etc.
There was a useful stat breakdwon of the 2017 Worlds that looked at which guards were being used effectively (as in which guards were used to sweep and submit) which I think would be great to see for each major competition each year so you could track the trends in effective guard use etc.:
https://www.bjjheroes.com[...]bers-guard
There was a useful stat breakdwon of the 2017 Worlds that looked at which guards were being used effectively (as in which guards were used to sweep and submit) which I think would be great to see for each major competition each year so you could track the trends in effective guard use etc.:
https://www.bjjheroes.com[...]bers-guard
Edited 6 year(s) ago
JPBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Obtaining statistics on guards is inherently problematic in terms of defining what to count as a guard and when. As in, does it only count after being held for 3 seconds like a pass, does this reset where you are transitioning between guards, how specific do you go in differentiating guards (are x, slx and wrong-legged x different guards or all x-guard variants ec.), do you breakdown by total time held or number of guards obtained etc. There was a useful stat breakdwon of the 2017 Worlds that looked at which guards were being used effectively (as in which guards were used to sweep and submit) which I think would be great to see for each major competition each year so you could track the trends in effective guard use etc.: https://www.bjjheroes.com[...]bers-guard
Awesome link! Thanks for the share.
HBBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Butterfly has been my tried and true guard for years. I’ve had to work around many injuries, so I find this one to be the easiest on those.
JPBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Butterfly has been my tried and true guard for years. I’ve had to work around many injuries, so I find this one to be the easiest on those.
For me, half guard, butterfly guard, x-guard, 50/50 and their variations. These are the three guard groups I most often play because I'm short and they are easier to use, I can use all of them in both gi and nogi without the need to create two completely different games when transitioning between gi and nogi, and they keep my feet and legs relatively safe when leg locks are allowed.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
DP
Black belt 3rd degreePending
6 year(s) ago
Butterfly, deep half, and lapel guards for me.
TPBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Closed guard has definitely made a comeback in competitions. I had to pass closed guard in 2/3 of my matches last week in the Euros and I think all of my male* teammates at blue/purple/brown belt level had to either deal with it or used it themselves. 50-50 is still utilized a lot in comps at the higher levels (unfortunately for the viewers) but for sure not the most popular in general.
*closed guard seems to be a rarer choice for small women
I like Jorgen's idea of a dynamic open guard, and like to play it that way UNTIL I get to one of my personal preferred guard sub-types, which are, because I'm not very good, guards that get me directly under the opponent's hips for maximum sweeping potential: the X-Guard, SLX and Deep Half. (These also work both gi and no-gi.)
Most used? Probably Open if that can be used to encompass all DLR/RDLR/Butterfly/Worm stuff. If that's cheating, then the Half Guard I bet is the most used type.
*closed guard seems to be a rarer choice for small women
I like Jorgen's idea of a dynamic open guard, and like to play it that way UNTIL I get to one of my personal preferred guard sub-types, which are, because I'm not very good, guards that get me directly under the opponent's hips for maximum sweeping potential: the X-Guard, SLX and Deep Half. (These also work both gi and no-gi.)
Most used? Probably Open if that can be used to encompass all DLR/RDLR/Butterfly/Worm stuff. If that's cheating, then the Half Guard I bet is the most used type.
RTBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Obtaining statistics on guards is inherently problematic in terms of defining what to count as a guard and when. As in, does it only count after being held for 3 seconds like a pass, does this reset where you are transitioning between guards, how specific do you go in differentiating guards (are x, slx and wrong-legged x different guards or all x-guard variants ec.), do you breakdown by total time held or number of guards obtained etc. There was a useful stat breakdwon of the 2017 Worlds that looked at which guards were being used effectively (as in which guards were used to sweep and submit) which I think would be great to see for each major competition each year so you could track the trends in effective guard use etc.: https://www.bjjheroes.com[...]bers-guard
Great link! Thanks for sharing.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Guards are disgusting.
Yes, yes, you have to have a bottom game in case you end up there.
But, playing guard is like eating McDonalds or having relations with 4am unattractive booty calls, of the opposite gender that you identify as being attracted to.
Except Murilo Bustamante.
Because that guy would punch you in the face with hands that looked like bricks while in his guard.
So, exceptions for that.
Yes, yes, you have to have a bottom game in case you end up there.
But, playing guard is like eating McDonalds or having relations with 4am unattractive booty calls, of the opposite gender that you identify as being attracted to.
Except Murilo Bustamante.
Because that guy would punch you in the face with hands that looked like bricks while in his guard.
So, exceptions for that.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I am a guard player but only when I have to so I can get top position or take the back.
Hell I like all of it, who am I kidding. Didn't say I was good at all of it but I like to play them all.
Hell I like all of it, who am I kidding. Didn't say I was good at all of it but I like to play them all.
MNBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Obtaining statistics on guards is inherently problematic in terms of defining what to count as a guard and when. As in, does it only count after being held for 3 seconds like a pass, does this reset where you are transitioning between guards, how specific do you go in differentiating guards (are x, slx and wrong-legged x different guards or all x-guard variants ec.), do you breakdown by total time held or number of guards obtained etc. There was a useful stat breakdwon of the 2017 Worlds that looked at which guards were being used effectively (as in which guards were used to sweep and submit) which I think would be great to see for each major competition each year so you could track the trends in effective guard use etc.: https://www.bjjheroes.com[...]bers-guard
Great stats!
I remember I have read similiar stats something like five or more years ago. Back then dlr was most efective to sweep from and spider was the submission guard.
My own guard has evolved from closed guard to half (white, blue belts). As a purple belt I adopted Roleta guard(cross guard) and played a lot of dlr as well brown belt i spent mostly on top because I consentrated on MMA. After that I had a lot to catch because I had to adapt all kinds of berimbolo etc. stuff.
During my Abu Dhabi time i almost totally stopped using half guard, because guys there were so good to counter that. I started to play collar and sleeve, little bit of 50/50 and Pedro guard since I trained quite much with him. I returned back to half when hurt my knee last spring.
In my opinnion modern dynamic guard needs lots more drilling than old school ones. What I noticed as well was that after I had gained 20 kgs more jiujitsu under my belt since my purple belt times, i didnt feel inverting and berimbolo stuff as nice as earlier...
I remember I have read similiar stats something like five or more years ago. Back then dlr was most efective to sweep from and spider was the submission guard.
My own guard has evolved from closed guard to half (white, blue belts). As a purple belt I adopted Roleta guard(cross guard) and played a lot of dlr as well brown belt i spent mostly on top because I consentrated on MMA. After that I had a lot to catch because I had to adapt all kinds of berimbolo etc. stuff.
During my Abu Dhabi time i almost totally stopped using half guard, because guys there were so good to counter that. I started to play collar and sleeve, little bit of 50/50 and Pedro guard since I trained quite much with him. I returned back to half when hurt my knee last spring.
In my opinnion modern dynamic guard needs lots more drilling than old school ones. What I noticed as well was that after I had gained 20 kgs more jiujitsu under my belt since my purple belt times, i didnt feel inverting and berimbolo stuff as nice as earlier...
HSBrown beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I only use guards to get back to top positions. Offense for me is top positions smashing. Everything else is defense til I can get back to top.
I have been working mostly on non-top positions for the last few months though to get more comfortable with guards, and learning how to defend and attack some from the bottom. Most of the bottom though is directly searching for ways to get back to the top, or find a position to scramble to get neutral or to top.
I am 320lbs. Gravity is my friend, and is the enemy of anyone underneath me.
I have been working mostly on non-top positions for the last few months though to get more comfortable with guards, and learning how to defend and attack some from the bottom. Most of the bottom though is directly searching for ways to get back to the top, or find a position to scramble to get neutral or to top.
I am 320lbs. Gravity is my friend, and is the enemy of anyone underneath me.
ALBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I'm a short and stocky guy, so top game has always been my personal game more than guard.....
But the ones I seem to notice the most these days locally are spider, lass, and knee-shield/z-guard.
Although I used to use and advocate butterfly guard a lot, age and serious knee issues now prevent me from using it at all. I'm personally finding more success in half/deep-half guard or just attacking and defending from turtle and getting back on top, these days.
But the ones I seem to notice the most these days locally are spider, lass, and knee-shield/z-guard.
Although I used to use and advocate butterfly guard a lot, age and serious knee issues now prevent me from using it at all. I'm personally finding more success in half/deep-half guard or just attacking and defending from turtle and getting back on top, these days.
JTBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I've pretty much been an open half guard player (due to short stalky legs) but have recently been playing a lot with the Z-Guard, Reverse X, Reverse Z and Reverse DLR. Craig Jones makes it look so easy. lol
CBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I think what I see most is that half guard (I think that is what it's called - one foot in) with the knee shield and frame. Seems to be the go to position for alot of the guard players. I rarely see a full blown closed guard anymore.
It's so difficult to even Get good players into closed guard these days. Half is definitely what I see the most, although my passing style forces top half, so I'm dealing with it constantly.
CBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Closed guard has definitely made a comeback in competitions. I had to pass closed guard in 2/3 of my matches last week in the Euros and I think all of my male* teammates at blue/purple/brown belt level had to either deal with it or used it themselves. 50-50 is still utilized a lot in comps at the higher levels (unfortunately for the viewers) but for sure not the most popular in general. *closed guard seems to be a rarer choice for small women I like Jorgen's idea of a dynamic open guard, and like to play it that way UNTIL I get to one of my personal preferred guard sub-types, which are, because I'm not very good, guards that get me directly under the opponent's hips for maximum sweeping potential: the X-Guard, SLX and Deep Half. (These also work both gi and no-gi.) Most used? Probably Open if that can be used to encompass all DLR/RDLR/Butterfly/Worm stuff. If that's cheating, then the Half Guard I bet is the most used type.
That's so interesting to see! It's definitely my favorite guard to play, but it's been out of fashion for some time for the comp meta, I think.
AMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Obtaining statistics on guards is inherently problematic in terms of defining what to count as a guard and when. As in, does it only count after being held for 3 seconds like a pass, does this reset where you are transitioning between guards, how specific do you go in differentiating guards (are x, slx and wrong-legged x different guards or all x-guard variants ec.), do you breakdown by total time held or number of guards obtained etc. There was a useful stat breakdwon of the 2017 Worlds that looked at which guards were being used effectively (as in which guards were used to sweep and submit) which I think would be great to see for each major competition each year so you could track the trends in effective guard use etc.: https://www.bjjheroes.com[...]bers-guard
This is great data.
I could interpret it as, to get the most high level competition 'bang for my buck', I should be working on base/sweep defense, upping my 50/50 guard game and improving back mount defense.
Actually, these things would be great to just work on in general. :)
I could interpret it as, to get the most high level competition 'bang for my buck', I should be working on base/sweep defense, upping my 50/50 guard game and improving back mount defense.
Actually, these things would be great to just work on in general. :)
Edited 6 year(s) ago
PHBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
To echo what many others have already said, half guard is what I see most. Danaher has a good explanation for why this is. Both players, top and bottom, feel like they can have an advantage in half guard. Other forms of guard tend to have one person with a clear advantage. However, in half guard the top person feels like has a good chance to pass while the bottom person feels like they have a good chance to sweep.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I love being in people's guards.
One of my favorite places to be.
I don't mind passing if they gift wrap it.
But, I don't mind setting up residence, in their guard, either, and making it my territory.
One of my favorite places to be.
I don't mind passing if they gift wrap it.
But, I don't mind setting up residence, in their guard, either, and making it my territory.
