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Does any of you still bow to a picture of Helio?
5 year(s) ago • 5794 views • 39 replies
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Some really crazy shit being dug up by this instagram account: https://www.instagram.com[...]st_racism/
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Only places that I see that still do this is Gracie Barras.
They then almost always proceed to then do a useless 20 minute warmup that is more akin to Richard Simmons than jiu-jitsu.
And at the end or start of class having to listen to some useless 10 to 20 minutes speech about nothing that half the time has nothing to do with jiu-jitsu but how their day or week went. But I think this is with almost all Brazilian instructors regardless of academy. lol
They then almost always proceed to then do a useless 20 minute warmup that is more akin to Richard Simmons than jiu-jitsu.
And at the end or start of class having to listen to some useless 10 to 20 minutes speech about nothing that half the time has nothing to do with jiu-jitsu but how their day or week went. But I think this is with almost all Brazilian instructors regardless of academy. lol
Edited 5 year(s) ago
CBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Personally, I think the idea of bowing to a picture of anyone is kind of stupid. Things may not be perfect, but the past was always worse. Doesn't really matter who they were, we're always going to be disappointed with people from those time, just like people are going to be disappointed in us in 100 years.
Maybe hero worship and Leaders are just bad ideas that we should try moving beyond.
Maybe hero worship and Leaders are just bad ideas that we should try moving beyond.
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Personally, I think the idea of bowing to a picture of anyone is kind of stupid. Things may not be perfect, but the past was always worse. Doesn't really matter who they were, we're always going to be disappointed with people from those time, just like people are going to be disappointed in us in 100 years. Maybe hero worship and Leaders are just bad ideas that we should try moving beyond.
Not sure that the past is always worse. I think a majority of people when they get older just wish they could go back to whatever time period they grew up in.
Most people hate change.
At some point in time society will have to mature to a level to where it can separate what people have accomplished as an individual from whatever actions that same person has done that they maybe should have not done or definitely should not have done. The creative side of the person and the human side of the person should be judged separately as most everyone has done dumb or fucked up shit...they just didn't have modern technology to blast it everywhere.
Most people hate change.
At some point in time society will have to mature to a level to where it can separate what people have accomplished as an individual from whatever actions that same person has done that they maybe should have not done or definitely should not have done. The creative side of the person and the human side of the person should be judged separately as most everyone has done dumb or fucked up shit...they just didn't have modern technology to blast it everywhere.
![Slideyfoot [jun]](userimg/5e25cf311adfd.jpg){kind=small}
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Helio was clearly a skilled teacher, but as a human being, he comes across as a total arsehole with extremely unpleasant views (particularly about women: I do not buy the excuse "he was born in a different time", fuck that. My grandfather was born around the same time, he definitely didn't view women like that). So I would never bow to a picture of him.
For those who haven't read it before, here's Exhibit A: http://www.global-trainin[...]helio2.htm
For those who haven't read it before, here's Exhibit A: http://www.global-trainin[...]helio2.htm
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
So I would never bow to a picture of him.
So even if your a guest at someone else's academy your going to make a statement by not bowing like everyone else?
You will probably bow just like everyone else.
You will probably bow just like everyone else.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
You're*
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
It's never been a part of the routines or traditions where I train to bow to pictures of anyone.
CBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
It's never been a part of the routines or traditions where I train to bow to pictures of anyone.
And when you think about it, isn't getting away from traditions and Hierarchies like this the whole reason we came to BJJ in the first place? This belongs in Aikido dojos. Why would anyone want to adopt this practice?
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
And when you think about it, isn't getting away from traditions and Hierarchies like this the whole reason we came to BJJ in the first place? This belongs in Aikido dojos. Why would anyone want to adopt this practice?
Because they do it at a lot of Judo places? I've, personally, never seen it at a BJJ/Gracie school.
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I thought no politics on here. That instagram account clearly has an antifa flag on it. Is beltchecker going in that direction?
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
and yes we do still bow.....
You do you boo boo.
You do you boo boo.
MGPurple beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
My school does.
CBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Nope. I don't even bow to the black belts at our gym. We just hug bump fists.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
CBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Looks like the "&" key didn't register. Hug bumping should be cool too though. :D
MMBlue beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I thought no politics on here. That instagram account clearly has an antifa flag on it. Is beltchecker going in that direction?
Was going to say the same. That Instagram account screams Antifa.
Whilst discrimination of any kind has no place in any sport, politicising BJJ absolutely needs to stop.
There are arguments about generations, geographical location etc and I am on the fence. But we can’t look at specific historical cases through 2021 glasses either. Especially when we don’t necessarily understand culture at that time.
We need to stamp out the issues of today, today.
Whilst discrimination of any kind has no place in any sport, politicising BJJ absolutely needs to stop.
There are arguments about generations, geographical location etc and I am on the fence. But we can’t look at specific historical cases through 2021 glasses either. Especially when we don’t necessarily understand culture at that time.
We need to stamp out the issues of today, today.
MMBlue beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Helio was clearly a skilled teacher, but as a human being, he comes across as a total arsehole with extremely unpleasant views (particularly about women: I do not buy the excuse 'he was born in a different time', fuck that. My grandfather was born around the same time, he definitely didn't view women like that). So I would never bow to a picture of him. For those who haven't read it before, here's Exhibit A: http://www.global-trainin[...]helio2.htm
I’m sorry mate but you have not considered geographics and culture . It’s not appropriate to judge based on our own grandparents generation and our own morals.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
It’s not appropriate to judge based on our own grandparents generation and our own morals.
It's not? In all cases? Or just when they are your hero?
MMBlue beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
It's not? In all cases? Or just when they are your hero?
They aren’t my hero if that’s what you are implying. I’m just playing devils advocate.
Personally I am not a massive fan at all of the Gracies.
Of course there many things that anyone should know are fundamentally right or wrong, BUT the elements I have already mentioned should also be considered .
I have been to many North African and Middle Eastern countries in recent years and some of the things I have seen I initially got so wound up with it was that unacceptable in today’s society where I live, but when digging deeper in to culture you learn a level of acceptance.
Personally I am not a massive fan at all of the Gracies.
Of course there many things that anyone should know are fundamentally right or wrong, BUT the elements I have already mentioned should also be considered .
I have been to many North African and Middle Eastern countries in recent years and some of the things I have seen I initially got so wound up with it was that unacceptable in today’s society where I live, but when digging deeper in to culture you learn a level of acceptance.
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Lots of gyms also include Kano and Maeda in their lineup of pictures they bow to. I'm not sure they've accumulated the same level of dirt that Helio, Carlos, or even many of some of our modern day heroes have.
That's why at our gym we just bow to pictures of Abe Lincoln, Mr. Rogers and Jesus.
That's why at our gym we just bow to pictures of Abe Lincoln, Mr. Rogers and Jesus.
CBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
That's why at our gym we just bow to pictures of Abe Lincoln, Mr. Rogers and Jesus.
If i open a Gym one day, we're bowing to Cthulhu, Satan and Thanos. May as well lean into it. No reason to settle for the lesser evil.
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I’m sorry mate but you have not considered geographics and culture . It’s not appropriate to judge based on our own grandparents generation and our own morals.
I completely disagree. Did you read the interview? Helio's views were disgusting even for his time. My grandparents were Turkish, a not entirely dissimilar culture, plenty of machismo. My grandfather would have been appalled by Helio.
MMBlue beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I completely disagree. Did you read the interview? Helio's views were disgusting even for his time. My grandparents were Turkish, a not entirely dissimilar culture, plenty of machismo. My grandfather would have been appalled by Helio.
Thats fine. Im not saying you are wrong but I am also not saying you are right. I am just saying that it isn't as straight cut as present day morals and values judging western society.
However, I do agree that on the face of it, him along with a shed load of other Gracie's have extremely questionable character !
However, I do agree that on the face of it, him along with a shed load of other Gracie's have extremely questionable character !
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
They aren’t my hero if that’s what you are implying. I’m just playing devils advocate. Personally I am not a massive fan at all of the Gracies. Of course there many things that anyone should know are fundamentally right or wrong, BUT the elements I have already mentioned should also be considered . I have been to many North African and Middle Eastern countries in recent years and some of the things I have seen I initially got so wound up with it was that unacceptable in today’s society where I live, but when digging deeper in to culture you learn a level of acceptance.
The characteristics Christian is calling out aren't cultural. The Gracies aren't popular in Brazil, most Brazilians are a bit embarrassed by their history and behavior. When you've been around the sport a bit longer you will understand this better. Until then, it just looks like you're trying to excuse bad behavior. And this isn't about current HR culture (some people refer to this as "Cancel Culture"). The reality of the history of the Gracies has been a subject of consternation for a long time.
CBBrown beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
The characteristics Christian is calling out aren't cultural.
And even if they were, so what? While I'm not saying culture is unimportant and should never be considered, it is far too often used as an excuse for behavior we wouldn't otherwise tolerate.
And at some point in time, almost everything we consider things to be proud of today (abolishing slavery, giving women the right to vote, letting women train BJJ, etc.) went against some cultural norm back in the day. It wasn't a good reason back then either, and it's still a bad reason now.
And at some point in time, almost everything we consider things to be proud of today (abolishing slavery, giving women the right to vote, letting women train BJJ, etc.) went against some cultural norm back in the day. It wasn't a good reason back then either, and it's still a bad reason now.
