Rules for main forums
- Be nice
- No advertisement
- No events
- No fundraisers
- No topics asking for votes
- Only posts related to Brazilian Jiu Jitsu
not eligible to promote to black belt?
5 year(s) ago • 10610 views • 88 replies
ILBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
iv'e been doing BJJ for 14.5 years.
out of which I'm been teaching 11 years straight.
when I started training my professor was a purple belt with no one in Israel with a brown belt yet.
My professor gave us black belts before he was a 2nd degree black belt... as we didn't have any yet.
Part of the aims of BJJ BC was to recognize practitioners and ranks without the need to relay on the IBJJF rules and regulations.
I got 115 students registered under my academy.. some have been with me for a decade.
I recently gave my first Black Belt to my first student. he has been training for 11 years.
I'm 5.5 years removed from my BB promotion and 3 years removed from cutting the ties to my professor.
So basically, I will never get my second stripe. does that mean I will never be eligible to promote to black belt?
I'll rephrase I will promote my students to black belts. I get that the IBJJF won't recognize it and I DON'T CARE.
My concern is with the disputes my student's promotion (by me) gets here on belt checker.
if this is the case... what point do I have in asking my students to sign up to BC if my crown achievements aren't recognize?
out of which I'm been teaching 11 years straight.
when I started training my professor was a purple belt with no one in Israel with a brown belt yet.
My professor gave us black belts before he was a 2nd degree black belt... as we didn't have any yet.
Part of the aims of BJJ BC was to recognize practitioners and ranks without the need to relay on the IBJJF rules and regulations.
I got 115 students registered under my academy.. some have been with me for a decade.
I recently gave my first Black Belt to my first student. he has been training for 11 years.
I'm 5.5 years removed from my BB promotion and 3 years removed from cutting the ties to my professor.
So basically, I will never get my second stripe. does that mean I will never be eligible to promote to black belt?
I'll rephrase I will promote my students to black belts. I get that the IBJJF won't recognize it and I DON'T CARE.
My concern is with the disputes my student's promotion (by me) gets here on belt checker.
if this is the case... what point do I have in asking my students to sign up to BC if my crown achievements aren't recognize?
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Well, you can mark "time served" when 6 years completes from BB anniversary?
But it's an arbitrary "agreed-upon" standard like many others.
But it's an arbitrary "agreed-upon" standard like many others.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Beltchecker defines promotion criteria by what the community agrees are the criteria. My downvote is just one voice. I personally believe that it’s commonly agreed that two degrees / 6 years is required for black belt promotion. But other people might disagree and upvote it instead. I don’t make the rules, the entire community does. I have no special power over anyone else.
You can claim the degrees by time served on belt checker. That is the same as you could do with IBJJF. However, you’re not entirely six years black belt yet, so you can’t do it for another few 8-9 months or so.
As a black belt for less than 6 years I don’t think you’re qualified to promote black belts. But again, that’s only my opinion. If enough people disagree with me and vote accordingly, then you can indeed promote black belts according to community standards here.
Interesting debate, none the less!
You can claim the degrees by time served on belt checker. That is the same as you could do with IBJJF. However, you’re not entirely six years black belt yet, so you can’t do it for another few 8-9 months or so.
As a black belt for less than 6 years I don’t think you’re qualified to promote black belts. But again, that’s only my opinion. If enough people disagree with me and vote accordingly, then you can indeed promote black belts according to community standards here.
Interesting debate, none the less!
Edited 5 year(s) ago
ILBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
The 2nd degree to promote is an IBJJF relic that I'm sorry to have found it's way to the "non-ibjjf" community.
in most martial arts a teacher can promote up to rank below them.
When the first 3-5 black belts were promoted in my old academy, the professor had no stripes at all.
BJJ is fairly new in Israel and only now the pioneers wear a 2nd or 3rd degree black belts.. but we've had black belts for more than a decade now.
in most martial arts a teacher can promote up to rank below them.
When the first 3-5 black belts were promoted in my old academy, the professor had no stripes at all.
BJJ is fairly new in Israel and only now the pioneers wear a 2nd or 3rd degree black belts.. but we've had black belts for more than a decade now.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
The 2nd degree to promote is an IBJJF relic that I'm sorry to have found it's way to the "non-ibjjf" community. in most martial arts a teacher can promote up to rank below them.
It’s the standard in pretty much all BJJ federations (never seen it not be the case actually). So IBJJF or not, I think it’s the commonly agreed standard for black belt promotions in BJJ.
Again, I could be in the minority and this is where the beauty of the beltchecker system shows it strength. Whatever people agree are the standards, that will be the standards. It has nothing to do with IBJJF or not.
Again, I could be in the minority and this is where the beauty of the beltchecker system shows it strength. Whatever people agree are the standards, that will be the standards. It has nothing to do with IBJJF or not.
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
By this logic if Gordon Ryan and Craig Jones joined the website and decided to promote someone to Black Belt together you would downvote it. They both have been black belts for just under 6 years.
I think common sense is always better than some set in stone rule. Removing the ability to adapt and make exceptions is normally not a good idea. The question should not be if exceptions can be made. But if the exception is worthy of being made.
Isn't this also part of the reason why you guys have some sorta of traveling council of black belts to make exceptions.
I think common sense is always better than some set in stone rule. Removing the ability to adapt and make exceptions is normally not a good idea. The question should not be if exceptions can be made. But if the exception is worthy of being made.
Isn't this also part of the reason why you guys have some sorta of traveling council of black belts to make exceptions.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
It’s the standard in pretty much all BJJ federations (never seen it not be the case actually). So IBJJF or not, I think it’s the commonly agreed standard for black belt promotions in BJJ. Again, I could be in the minority and this is where the beauty of the beltchecker system shows it strength. Whatever people agree are the standards, that will be the standards. It has nothing to do with IBJJF or not.
And just a quick question.
This guy was promoted by you before you were a 2 stripe black belt. At least is what it says with no wording that someone with 2 or more stripes helped to verify at the time of promotion.
Do you see how silly this line of questioning can go?
As long as someone is legit why cry wolf. It devalues what a downvote is really designed for.
This guy was promoted by you before you were a 2 stripe black belt. At least is what it says with no wording that someone with 2 or more stripes helped to verify at the time of promotion.
Do you see how silly this line of questioning can go?
As long as someone is legit why cry wolf. It devalues what a downvote is really designed for.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Your lineage would be the key here. If you're under certain Gracie JiuJitsu member then you can pretty much do whatever you want as they don't have set rules in place for these things. If you're lineage is IBJJF oriented and you are looking for validation from them then good luck with that as you will need to, literally, buy your way in (or they will). If you're just looking to the community in general then most people you care about (other Black Belts) will have expected a certain amount of time from you before you start promoting to Black Belt which is 6+ years.
What you don't care AT ALL about is what blue belts, purple belts, and brown belts have to say because their personal opinion in this matter is irrelevant. They can't promote people either and their opinion on what a Black Belt looks like is to watch Youtube.
What you don't care AT ALL about is what blue belts, purple belts, and brown belts have to say because their personal opinion in this matter is irrelevant. They can't promote people either and their opinion on what a Black Belt looks like is to watch Youtube.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
By this logic if Gordon Ryan and Craig Jones joined the website and decided to promote someone to Black Belt together you would downvote it. They both have been black belts for just under 6 years.
Correct, I would downvote it.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Isn't this also part of the reason why you guys have some sorta of traveling council of black belts to make exceptions.
They don't make exceptions. They promote by completely normal standards. Just doesn't demand a business relationship in return.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
And just a quick question. This guy was promoted by you before you were a 2 stripe black belt. At least is what it says with no wording that someone with 2 or more stripes helped to verify at the time of promotion. Do you see how silly this line of questioning can go? As long as someone is legit why cry wolf. It devalues what a downvote is really designed for.
Co-promoted by two black belts with plenty of degrees. Yes sure, he could add that in the description. Probably would if you downvoted him and then that's it. It is a completely different scenario though since the promotion in question did not have a 2nd+ degree involved.
JJBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
What you don't care AT ALL about is what blue belts, purple belts, and brown belts have to say because their personal opinion in this matter is irrelevant. They can't promote people either and their opinion on what a Black Belt looks like is to watch Youtube.
Cool.
Why give Blue, Purple and Brown belts any points at all then to verify anything.
In fact why give non degree black belts and 1st degree black belts any points either? Just give 2nd degree black belts moderation to approve whoever they want and anyone below that rank must have no reason to ever respond about anything ever because apparently their opinions don't matter at all either by the general logic.
If you don't want anyone else to respond use some black belt only forum. Because instead of debating someone's opinion you would rather debate someone's right to an opinion.
Why give Blue, Purple and Brown belts any points at all then to verify anything.
In fact why give non degree black belts and 1st degree black belts any points either? Just give 2nd degree black belts moderation to approve whoever they want and anyone below that rank must have no reason to ever respond about anything ever because apparently their opinions don't matter at all either by the general logic.
If you don't want anyone else to respond use some black belt only forum. Because instead of debating someone's opinion you would rather debate someone's right to an opinion.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
I think this discussion ties in really well to the (presumably) ongoing discussion regarding a 17-year-old receiving his black belt sooner than the generally-accepted 19-year-old standard age. In both cases there exists the argument that we should collectively move to change some fairly long-held traditions of when promotions are appropriate to take place, and in both cases I feel like this is too slippery a slope.
If we all choose to accept that Mica Galvao should be promoted "because he's too good at BJJ" to remain a lowly brown belt, then what's to stop the karate school down the road that "does some grappling in their curriculum" from promoting little 14-year-old Timmy to BJJ black belt because, again, in their opinion, he's "too good at BJJ"?
Likewise, if everybody chose to acknowledge premature promotions, what's to stop, say, a purple belt gym owner from promoting his purple belt friend to brown belt without the consent of someone who has the actual "right" to make the promotion a "real" thing?
Maybe these two scenarios sound super crazy, but I think it's a slippery slope!
Imagine this situation: Billy McDojo (a no-stripe black belt) promotes 17yearold non-competitor to black belt. Professor McDojo sites the case of Mica Galvao receiving his black belt early, and makes the argument that his student, although she's never competed, deserves a black belt because she's so advanced at Gracie self defense moves (not pulling guard and winning by an advantage, of course). Is that all good? Hopefully most of us would argue that that's not cool. Same goes with zero or one stripe black belts promoting others to black belt.
Slippery slopes, y'all. Slippery slopes.
If we all choose to accept that Mica Galvao should be promoted "because he's too good at BJJ" to remain a lowly brown belt, then what's to stop the karate school down the road that "does some grappling in their curriculum" from promoting little 14-year-old Timmy to BJJ black belt because, again, in their opinion, he's "too good at BJJ"?
Likewise, if everybody chose to acknowledge premature promotions, what's to stop, say, a purple belt gym owner from promoting his purple belt friend to brown belt without the consent of someone who has the actual "right" to make the promotion a "real" thing?
Maybe these two scenarios sound super crazy, but I think it's a slippery slope!
Imagine this situation: Billy McDojo (a no-stripe black belt) promotes 17yearold non-competitor to black belt. Professor McDojo sites the case of Mica Galvao receiving his black belt early, and makes the argument that his student, although she's never competed, deserves a black belt because she's so advanced at Gracie self defense moves (not pulling guard and winning by an advantage, of course). Is that all good? Hopefully most of us would argue that that's not cool. Same goes with zero or one stripe black belts promoting others to black belt.
Slippery slopes, y'all. Slippery slopes.
BNPurple beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
This guy was promoted by you before you were a 2 stripe black belt. At least is what it says with no wording that someone with 2 or more stripes helped to verify at the time of promotion. Do you see how silly this line of questioning can go?
With the fear of potentially leading to a discussion of angels dancing on the head of a pin, I would be curious to see if there is a timeline as to when the IBJJF instituted the "2 stripe rule". I have to think the rules started encroaching up the rank structure as time marches on in a manner similar to tying IBJJF membership to competition eligibility.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
With the fear of potentially leading to a discussion of angels dancing on the head of a pin, I would be curious to see if there is a timeline as to when the IBJJF instituted the '2 stripe rule'. I have to think the rules started encroaching up the rank structure as time marches on in a manner similar to tying IBJJF membership to competition eligibility.
I've always heard this as a rule since I started training in 1998.
BNPurple beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
I've always heard this as a rule since I started training in 1998.
Oh, alright --- I guess I didn't realize the IBJJF was tracking black belt membership back that early.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Oh, alright --- I guess I didn't realize the IBJJF was tracking black belt membership back that early.
They weren't but it was likely the rule before IBJJF existed.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Cool. Why give Blue, Purple and Brown belts any points at all then to verify anything. In fact why give non degree black belts and 1st degree black belts any points either? Just give 2nd degree black belts moderation to approve whoever they want and anyone below that rank must have no reason to ever respond about anything ever because apparently their opinions don't matter at all either by the general logic. If you don't want anyone else to respond use some black belt only forum. Because instead of debating someone's opinion you would rather debate someone's right to an opinion.
Great idea. I like this. Let's make this happen.
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
They weren't but it was likely the rule before IBJJF existed.
Yeah, I don't really think the CBJJ had any specific requirements for those things then. It was just a general thing people talked about.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
Yeah, I don't really think the CBJJ had any specific requirements for those things then. It was just a general thing people talked about.
Agreed. General consensus in the community.
VMBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
First - all due respect. You’re clearly helping a lot of people through Jiu Jitsu. My opinion though… is patience not one of the virtues of a blackbelt?
I think it’s reasonable to simply wait the six months.
I think it’s reasonable to simply wait the six months.
Edited 5 year(s) ago
DBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
First - all due respect. You’re clearly helping a lot of people through Jiu Jitsu. My opinion though… is patience not one of the virtues of a blackbelt? I think it’s reasonable to simply wait the six months.
You also have to be awarded the stripe by someone with more than 2 stripes. You don't just get it after time served, i.e. you shouldn't stripe yourself.
DBBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
You also have to be awarded the stripe by someone with more than 2 stripes. You don't just get it after time served, i.e. you shouldn't stripe yourself.
The IBJJF allows you to get stripes strictly by time served, so I think this would be a matter of personal opinion on voting for this. Would you, for example, down vote Christian because his second and third stripe are strictly time served with no listed promoting instructor above him for those stripes?
JBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
5 year(s) ago
The IBJJF allows you to get stripes strictly by time served, so I think this would be a matter of personal opinion on voting for this. Would you, for example, down vote Christian because his second and third stripe are strictly time served with no listed promoting instructor above him for those stripes?
If I'm not mistaken, he still had someone "award" it. Which is what I've always heard....anyone can give it to you.
DBBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
If I'm not mistaken, he still had someone 'award' it. Which is what I've always heard....anyone can give it to you.
That's not reflected on his profile at all. His first stripe has Robson Barbosa listed, but the second and third only list "(time served)". This is also discussed on the FAQ: https://www.beltchecker.c[...]rification
"The system allows certification of degrees for verified black belts once due time is served and as long as the community agrees by voting to approve it."
"The system allows certification of degrees for verified black belts once due time is served and as long as the community agrees by voting to approve it."
DBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
The IBJJF allows you to get stripes strictly by time served, so I think this would be a matter of personal opinion on voting for this. Would you, for example, down vote Christian because his second and third stripe are strictly time served with no listed promoting instructor above him for those stripes?
Did Christian give himself the stripes? Someone has to vouch for you training during the time served, otherwise everyone who's retired after blackbelt will keep striping themselves.
DBBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Did Christian give himself the stripes? Someone has to vouch for you training during the time served, otherwise everyone who's retired after blackbelt will keep striping themselves.
That's a question he would have to clarify, but his profile would seem to indicate that he's responsible for his own 2nd and 3rd stripes as no one else is listed for them.
VMBlack beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Did Christian give himself the stripes? Someone has to vouch for you training during the time served, otherwise everyone who's retired after blackbelt will keep striping themselves.
This is the beauty of BeltChecker - The community decides. Personally, I don’t think the formality should affect Mr Leibovich’s ability to promote his students - as long as he has completed six years as an active: 1)student under a qualified BB, 2)competitor, or 3)teacher. It seems abundantly clear from the amount of verified students on his profile that he is an active blackbelt teacher.
MMBlue beltVerified
5 year(s) ago
Did Christian give himself the stripes? Someone has to vouch for you training during the time served, otherwise everyone who's retired after blackbelt will keep striping themselves.
White belt here. Just an observation….
Beltchecker has a training history platform. This would clearly add strength to the promotion.
If people chose not to update their training history then surely other users would rightly downvote until their concerns were answered.
Beltchecker has a training history platform. This would clearly add strength to the promotion.
If people chose not to update their training history then surely other users would rightly downvote until their concerns were answered.
