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No, we do not "demote" students.
4 year(s) ago • 6009 views • 8 replies
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
You can kick someone out, of your school, and network, for bad behaviors.
But you cannot demote them.
The very idea facilitates cultish crap.
Once promoted, the person stays promoted.
Let's say you built, and promoted a monster.
You can kick them out, but the instructor still lives with the fact,
that they promoted,
and sometimes, built,
a monster, better trained to violence.
Better, the instructor was demoted, than demoted a student.
Too much power, facilitates too much corrupt conflict of interest and cult behaviors.
Once you promote them, that's that.
On the other hand, the question was *never* about promoting scumbags.
Conversely, there is a very valid question about *training* scumbags.
But you cannot demote them.
The very idea facilitates cultish crap.
Once promoted, the person stays promoted.
Let's say you built, and promoted a monster.
You can kick them out, but the instructor still lives with the fact,
that they promoted,
and sometimes, built,
a monster, better trained to violence.
Better, the instructor was demoted, than demoted a student.
Too much power, facilitates too much corrupt conflict of interest and cult behaviors.
Once you promote them, that's that.
On the other hand, the question was *never* about promoting scumbags.
Conversely, there is a very valid question about *training* scumbags.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
I personally think there's more upside than downside to the idea of not demoting anyone from belt.
MBlack beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
I am reading your statement and see that it is behavior-based and not skill, correct? You say bad behavior. To me behavior although very important does not equal skill and belts are based on skill. because this hypothetical person is an ass does that mean they no longer hold the skills to have that belt/certification etc? No. I do know that some have a personal moral standard that is rolled into promotions and that is where I think it might become a grey area. This community is tight and I am pretty sure those eventually would be washed out.
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
I have always gotten a kick out of the demoting someone.
Yes you may actually end up regretting giving someone a belt because of behavior afterward but you can't take it back life doesn't work that way.
Behavior and knowledge are 2 different things and lets face it the minute behavior comes into ranking someone the rank become completely arbitrary . I refuse to teach anyone I would not rank but have ranked people I have later regretted and I will always confirm that yes I did rank them to that level but they are no longer affiliated with myself or my gym anymore.
Yes you may actually end up regretting giving someone a belt because of behavior afterward but you can't take it back life doesn't work that way.
Behavior and knowledge are 2 different things and lets face it the minute behavior comes into ranking someone the rank become completely arbitrary . I refuse to teach anyone I would not rank but have ranked people I have later regretted and I will always confirm that yes I did rank them to that level but they are no longer affiliated with myself or my gym anymore.
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
Yeah it's kinda like earning a university degree or certification: once earned, it can't really just be taken away.
DBlack beltVerified
4 year(s) ago
Isn't part of the idea behind revoking black belts to hurt their future jiu jitsu related endeavours? i.e. hurt their business? Not saying this is a good or bad thing, just putting it out there.
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
Isn't part of the idea behind revoking black belts to hurt their future jiu jitsu related endeavours? i.e. hurt their business? Not saying this is a good or bad thing, just putting it out there.
I guess that may be the ulterior motive for doing it. The fact is you can't take something back that is knowledge and performance based without affecting your own credibility in the process. He either EARNED it or didn't and if he didn't that's on you. If you disagree with his conduct distance yourself and if it is egregious do so publicly
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
The fact is you can't take something back that is knowledge and performance based without affecting your own credibility in the process. He either EARNED it or didn't and if he didn't that's on you.
Well put, sir!
ALBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
4 year(s) ago
I guess that may be the ulterior motive for doing it. The fact is you can't take something back that is knowledge and performance based without affecting your own credibility in the process. He either EARNED it or didn't and if he didn't that's on you. If you disagree with his conduct distance yourself and if it is egregious do so publicly
Perfectly stated, Phil!
