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White belt problems.

4 year(s) ago • 8360 views • 25 replies

Baptiste Riboldi
Baptiste Riboldi
White beltVerified21 forum posts125/0
4 year(s) ago
Hello everyone
I began my jiu-jitsu journey a few months ago and I really enjoy it, but I sometimes have trouble to remember everything my coach show when we see something new.
Like sometime he shows a technique, he talks about some details on the technique and when it is time to practice, I don’t even remember what we need to do.

Am I the only white belt who feels like this?
Am I dumb?
Will my brain get better at understanding jiu-jitsu over time?

It’s probably not very important because I improve anyway.
Have a nice day everyone
Nick Tyau
Nick Tyau
Black belt 1st degreeVerified314 forum posts4290/1000
4 year(s) ago
You are definitely not the only white belt to feel this and even after white belt, it’s okay to feel this way at times. It’s a flood of information and if you haven’t had grappling experience before, its even more overwhelming. Yes you’ll get better at learning. I personally like to take notes even if I never look at them again.

Traditionally, since there’s no universally agreed upon curriculum, coaches will teach according to their own curriculum or their whim. This isn’t necessarily wrong. Personally, I’ve been rethinking how I teach and prefer to cover things conceptually as best I can.

Pace your journey. You’ll catch on
Jorgen Matsi
Jorgen Matsi
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified1772 forum posts17315/1000
4 year(s) ago
Try to remember/focus on 2 things:

1) What is the end goal? Where are you supposed to end up / what's supposed to happen as a result of the "move"?
2) Gross motor pattern coach's limbs are moving in and emulate it best you can. Ignore the auditory details for now.
Baptiste Riboldi
Baptiste RiboldiOP
White beltVerified21 forum posts125/0
4 year(s) ago
You are definitely not the only white belt to feel this and even after white belt, it’s okay to feel this way at times. It’s a flood of information and if you haven’t had grappling experience before, its even more overwhelming. Yes you’ll get better at learning. I personally like to take notes even if I never look at them again. Traditionally, since there’s no universally agreed upon curriculum, coaches will teach according to their own curriculum or their whim. This isn’t necessarily wrong. Personally, I’ve been rethinking how I teach and prefer to cover things conceptually as best I can. Pace your journey. You’ll catch on
Thank you for your answers and encouragements!

What do you focus on when taking notes?
Do you have some advise about words to shorten or translate in idéogram? I thought about using some kind of stickmans draw to help me memorising stuff, but I did not try.

I keep hearing the word curriculum, but I am not sure to understand it, is it just the list of the techniques one know or something more?

About concepts: I started to listen to a podcast called big mental models, in the first episode they talk about the concept of alignment (posture, structure and base). I am convinced I survived longer than usual in my last couple of rolls because I was thinking about that.
Do you only teach concept and let the student figure out the technique? Or is there still some "do this do that" left?

I like the concepts, but I think I need the "do this do that" too!
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Baptiste Riboldi
Baptiste RiboldiOP
White beltVerified21 forum posts125/0
4 year(s) ago
Try to remember/focus on 2 things: 1) What is the end goal? Where are you supposed to end up / what's supposed to happen as a result of the 'move'? 2) Gross motor pattern coach's limbs are moving in and emulate it best you can. Ignore the auditory details for now.
Thanks!
Simple and concise advices, I will definitely apply them thanks a lot!
Nick Tyau
Nick Tyau
Black belt 1st degreeVerified314 forum posts4290/1000
4 year(s) ago
Thank you for your answers and encouragements! What do you focus on when taking notes? Do you have some advise about words to shorten or translate in idéogram? I thought about using some kind of stickmans draw to help me memorising stuff, but I did not try. I keep hearing the word curriculum, but I am not sure to understand it, is it just the list of the techniques one know or something more? About concepts: I started to listen to a podcast called big mental models, in the first episode they talk about the concept of alignment (posture, structure and base). I am convinced I survived longer than usual in my last couple of rolls because I was thinking about that. Do you only teach concept and let the student figure out the technique? Or is there still some 'do this do that' left? I like the concepts, but I think I need the 'do this do that' too!
My note taking has changed over the years. In the beginning, it was very detailed. I took notes on every move, what scenario it should be used in, where on the gi I place my hands, etc. as time goes on I found I needed fewer words to express what I wanted to remember since I had heuristics from training. You can see my notes on my training profile if it interests you.

Below is a an example of a curriculum that I saw on a forum
Joel Matson
Joel Matson
Black beltVerified108 forum posts3910/1000
4 year(s) ago
Listen brother, I've been doing this for over a decade now and when somebody shows me something new, often I miss details. Jujitsu is so deep! Just keep swimming…
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Dan Whettam
Dan Whettam
Blue beltVerified38 forum posts1100/200
4 year(s) ago
What do you focus on when taking notes? Do you have some advise about words to shorten or translate in idéogram? I thought about using some kind of stickmans draw to help me memorising stuff, but I did not try.
I've been taking notes since I started ~2 years ago (https://dwhettam.notion.s[...]64ece58003). The things I focus on are a description of the technique, ideally accompanied with a video I've found online (my coach shares a lot of his teaching notes on his blog, which is super useful). If it's a new technique to me I try to describe it in as much detail as possible. If I've seen it before I will add any extra pointers that I picked up/found useful. After that I'll have a few lines describing how my rolls went, If I managed to pull off anything I've been working on etc. Then I have a summary of what went well, what went badly, what to focus on next time.

I've thought about doing diagrams but I'm definitely not good enough at drawing, and most techniques can be found on youtube anyway, so a link to the video suffices for me.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Christian Graugart
Christian Graugart
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4323 forum posts39320/1000
4 year(s) ago
The question from the other side is also interesting. If students forget or don't understand the majority of the details you're showing, should one maybe change something as a coach? Isn't it waste of precious training time?
Baptiste Riboldi
Baptiste RiboldiOP
White beltVerified21 forum posts125/0
4 year(s) ago
The question from the other side is also interesting. If students forget or don't understand the majority of the details you're showing, should one maybe change something as a coach? Isn't it waste of precious training time?
I asked those questions after watching this vidéo: "Foundation drills everyone should (no instructor required)" https://www.youtube.com/w[...]ngR6iGOi5Y
I was like "oh this is simple stuff I want to do this!".

So agree with you about this, but I don't feel legitimate to ask my coach to change the way he teaches...
James Jones
James Jones
Black beltVerified1309 forum posts6475/1000
4 year(s) ago
The more you learn the easier it becomes. It's like a domino effect.

Right now you may only be able to remember a single technique from each class and not really achieve much in sparring.

You should have at least 1 offensive thing your working on and 1 defensive.
Then you will get to where you will have maybe 2 or 3 offensive and defensive things your working on.
Then you will get to where you can have something your working on from almost all bad positions.
And finally you will get to where you will have different offensive things you are trying from all different positions/scenarios and chain attacking and using deception etc.

The more knowledge you have the easier it is to learn new things and go back and refresh old things you've learned and improve upon them.

I'm at a point now where I will always have like 6 or 7 things I am working on from various positions. So no matter where the roll ends up I will have something I am focused on getting better at. And you will get to where you have at least a basic idea of what to do from almost any position and situation.

Concepts are much easier to use than a bunch of techniques when your first starting. For example:

When your trying to get your guard back your basically doing 2 things followed up by 2 more things or combining all 4 of these things together back and forth.
1. Attacking the weight distribution to off balance your opponent, making them post or create space etc.
2. Creating space.
You then follow up these 2 things with:
1. Creating distance from the space you have created or travel through the space you have created.
2. Creating frames.

Your basically always trying to create space from a bad position and often times removing space from good positions or to finish submissions. Almost every submission is just you slowly removing the space after you have the submission set up.

Jiu jitsu is basically a game of space management & a balancing act with some deception mixed in. Your always removing or creating space while trying to have amazing balance in the process while out strategizing your opponent.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Christian Graugart
Christian Graugart
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4323 forum posts39320/1000
4 year(s) ago
So agree with you about this, but I don't feel legitimate to ask my coach to change the way he teaches...
Yeah that can be difficult.

Completely unrelated, someone once said something like "if no one has ever taught you how to actually teach, then there is a very good chance you have no idea what you are doing".
Jorgen Matsi
Jorgen Matsi
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified1772 forum posts17315/1000
4 year(s) ago
So agree with you about this, but I don't feel legitimate to ask my coach to change the way he teaches...
If they take it personally, that's strike 2 regarding it shouldn't be the gym to be in...

But of course it's hard if they're the best place available in the area.
Anthony Restuccia
Anthony Restuccia
Black beltVerified650 forum posts12595/1000
4 year(s) ago
Yeah that can be difficult. Completely unrelated, someone once said something like 'if no one has ever taught you how to actually teach, then there is a very good chance you have no idea what you are doing'.
100%. I spent a lot of years working on my pedagogy (art, science, or profession of teaching) when I was an active ski instructor. To me, it really is something that needs to be practiced if you want to be a good instructor at anything. We've all had lessons from people who may be great practitioners at whatever they are teaching, but fail because they don't know how to make their students learn. In Jiu Jitus, I'd rather learn from someone that may not be top of the heap in competition but understands how to teach, then a world champ that has no idea how to teach. Did that make sense? lol
Baptiste Riboldi
Baptiste RiboldiOP
White beltVerified21 forum posts125/0
4 year(s) ago
If they take it personally, that's strike 2 regarding it shouldn't be the gym to be in... But of course it's hard if they're the best place available in the area.
Well don't get me wrong, I'm sure he would nod take it personally. I just feel like I need to try to adjust things on my side first.

Tonight I try to apply your advices Jorgen, I focused on the end goal and the limbs moves. It helped me thanks again!

We are not a big club the maine coach is a purple two others are blue belts. I think everyone is learning and i find it great!
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit Zenthner
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago
Jiujitsu also comes naturally by himself, you need to roll slowly and try to feel things, in the beginning it's a lot about the defense process, so try to feel when and from where the danger come from, it would give you a better understanding of what you're doing and the purpose of it. Then you will understand easier.
James Jones
James Jones
Black beltVerified1309 forum posts6475/1000
4 year(s) ago
Jiujitsu also comes naturally by himself, you need to roll slowly and try to feel things, in the beginning it's a lot about the defense process, so try to feel when and from where the danger come from, it would give you a better understanding of what you're doing and the purpose of it. Then you will understand easier.
It's really easy to tell new people to calm down and be slower but really who actually listens to that advise the first few weeks/months of training that already had an athletic background. I find it's much easier for people who never competed in intense sports to be calm sooner.

Basically someone has to go out of there way to really talk to someone or let the new person gets destroyed a few times by someone not even trying and just laying on them slowly making them feel like they are being attacked by some super jedi sloth while in a tar pit.
Liam Hajdar Wandi
Liam Hajdar Wandi
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified43 forum posts1785/1000
4 year(s) ago
Well don't get me wrong, I'm sure he would nod take it personally. I just feel like I need to try to adjust things on my side first. Tonight I try to apply your advices Jorgen, I focused on the end goal and the limbs moves. It helped me thanks again! We are not a big club the maine coach is a purple two others are blue belts. I think everyone is learning and i find it great!
Welcome to jiujitsu my man. I hope you continue to enjoy it for years to come.

As a secondary school teacher (maths) I can tell you that the effort and focus that goes into lesson planning and delivery and reflection (if you want to be any good, that is) is far, far higher than most jiujitsu instructors imagine. Unfortunately, as many have already mentioned, there is a shortage of reliable resources (books, courses, websites) of education for jiujitsu instructors. There is an endless list of technique books and videos out there, but very little in the way of "how to teach jiujitsu".

John A. Byrne
John A. Byrne
Black beltVerified1013 forum posts6370/1000
4 year(s) ago
The question from the other side is also interesting. If students forget or don't understand the majority of the details you're showing, should one maybe change something as a coach? Isn't it waste of precious training time?
I've always felt I should lower my details to the audience I'm teaching etc. Also, some folks learn auditorily, or visually, and I can see the folks who want it done "to them". For me I am a kinetic learner and auditory, so I can feel the details sometimes better then seeing them.

Christian Graugart
Christian Graugart
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4323 forum posts39320/1000
4 year(s) ago
Unfortunately, as many have already mentioned, there is a shortage of reliable resources (books, courses, websites) of education for jiujitsu instructors. There is an endless list of technique books and videos out there, but very little in the way of "how to teach jiujitsu".
Ok, this was the kick I needed. During the pandemic, I actually built a platform to help instructors become better at teaching. We ran into some bottlenecks and ultimately decided to upload everything for free on YouTube instead. Long story, short: Too much hassle to down- and upload so I haven't done it yet, but instead just opened up the site:

http://www.TeachingBJJ.com

All the videos are free and I hope that people will watch it and become better at teaching. Valuable both for instructors and students alike!
Joe Cavett
Joe Cavett
Purple beltVerified433 forum posts4005/400
4 year(s) ago
I still struggle with techniques just like others have said. One thing I think BJJ could do better is to focus more on concepts instead of specific techniques. Instead of teaching a step by step technique for an armbar from one position, why not teach the concept of the armbar and let the techniques grow from there? I think if we teach people that the concept of the armbar is to isolate and control the elbow, then control the wrist and apply force to bend the elbow backwards it is much easier to then show them the steps needed to get there because they know what the end goal is and why.
Christian Graugart
Christian Graugart
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4323 forum posts39320/1000
4 year(s) ago
One thing I think BJJ could do better is to focus more on concepts instead of specific techniques. Instead of teaching a step by step technique for an armbar from one position, why not teach the concept of the armbar and let the techniques grow from there?
There are many gyms that does exactly this :)
James Jones
James Jones
Black beltVerified1309 forum posts6475/1000
4 year(s) ago
I still struggle with techniques just like others have said. One thing I think BJJ could do better is to focus more on concepts instead of specific techniques. Instead of teaching a step by step technique for an armbar from one position, why not teach the concept of the armbar and let the techniques grow from there? I think if we teach people that the concept of the armbar is to isolate and control the elbow, then control the wrist and apply force to bend the elbow backwards it is much easier to then show them the steps needed to get there because they know what the end goal is and why.
I still feel stupid when going over a technique in an A, B, C, D process. And some black belt 3rd and higher instructors still kinda force this way of learning.

I feel most people do better if you just show them a technique a couple times, don't get too crazy advanced and then tell them why your doing what your doing explaining maybe a basic concept of whatever you goal is. The goal isn't to do step 1, step 2 and step 3. It's probably to maybe create or remove space here, control posture or posts, attack weight distribution, add leverage here and so on. They need to understand the why most of all. And the why has nothing to do with techniques but concepts.

Once they know the why... they can figure out the how and when. All the where stuff which is the abcd really you figure out yourself those small details. Or add those small details in more advanced classes. They can understand the step by step process much easier once they understand everything around those steps.

If I want to teach a sweep i can show them a technique and then maybe they know that one technique, if I teach them why that sweep works they will randomly do other sweeps without having ever been showed them just simply by following a step of concepts.
Edited 4 year(s) ago
Robert Laursoo
Robert Laursoo
Blue beltVerified30 forum posts905/200
4 year(s) ago
I sometimes have trouble to remember everything...
My favourite moment is when during the roll (in the end of the class) coach shouts the names of the techniques I could do from the position where I am but the thing is that we have done them only once or twice and long time ago (or never) and I really have no memory of them :D So probably the roll is painful to watch due to so many missed opportunities due to not being able to recognize.
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit Zenthner
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago
I teach with a different approch, i that it's very difficult to see all the techniques in jiujitsu if you train just 3 or 4 techniques per class. Based on someone training twice a week it will take too much time to see all the basics and variations, in the same time, everyone's different by age, bodytype, abilities,... so i choose a position and from there we work like 15 or 20 techniques per class. I tell the guys to feel what's fit for them and choose their 2 or 3 to focus on and then they can drill more those. Then on the next training they can still ask about those, but on that time they have doing drill and trying to use it in sparring, so if i bring some details at that moment it made it works way better.
I'm proud to say that in my academy everyone have his/her own style.
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit Zenthner
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago
I teach with a different approch, i that it's very difficult to see all the techniques in jiujitsu if you train just 3 or 4 techniques per class. Based on someone training twice a week it will take too much time to see all the basics and variations, in the same time, everyone's different by age, bodytype, abilities,... so i choose a position and from there we work like 15 or 20 techniques per class. I tell the guys to feel what's fit for them and choose their 2 or 3 to focus on and then they can drill more those. Then on the next training they can still ask about those, but on that time they have doing drill and trying to use it in sparring, so if i bring some details at that moment it made it works way better. I'm proud to say that in my academy everyone have his/her own style.
It help also people to open their mind and works on defense
Matteo
Matteo
Blue beltVerifiedSvizzera24 forum posts425/200
4 year(s) ago
Same problem, now I'm improving breaking it mentally in smaller pieces and giving them keywords. Anyway it's normal, especially after a tiring working day, usually if I am more relaxed and don't overthink it's better.

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