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Someone legit but....

4 year(s) ago • 2002 views • 23 replies

Benoit Zenthner
Benoit Zenthner
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago

Hello guys,

I have a question for you ? Can you confirm to me that to become a Sixt degree Black belt you need at least 24 years of Black belt ?
Deepu
Deepu
Black beltVerified547 forum posts6260/1000
4 year(s) ago
Sounds right. 9 years for the first 3 stripes (3 year wait), then 15 years for the next three (5 year wait).

From IBJJF site:

Athletes from the black belt ranking on (red and black belt, red and white belt and red belt)
• Every promotion to a new degree in the black belt is only valid starting from the issuance of an IBJJF diploma, after the
applicant meets the basic requirements present in Article 5.
• The first degree can only be requested after a minimum of three (3) years of the black belt graduation.
• The second and third grades can be requested only after a minimum period of three (3) years from the previous graduation.
• The 4th, 5th and 6th grades can be requested only after a minimum period of 5 (five) years from the previous graduation.
• The 7th and 8th grades (red and black belt) can be requested only after a period of 7 (seven) years from the previous
graduation.
• The 9th degree (red belt) can only be applied after a minimum period of 10 (ten) years from the previous graduation.
• The 10th grade (red belt) was given only to the pioneers of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, the Gracie brothers: Carlos, Oswaldo, George,
Gaston and Helio.
Note: The year or years the athlete does not renew his or her membership and/or register an academy with IBJJF will not
count as time towards certifying a degree or degrees.
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit ZenthnerOP
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago
Sounds right. 9 years for the first 3 stripes (3 year wait), then 15 years for the next three (5 year wait). From IBJJF site: Athletes from the black belt ranking on (red and black belt, red and white belt and red belt) • Every promotion to a new degree in the black belt is only valid starting from the issuance of an IBJJF diploma, after the applicant meets the basic requirements present in Article 5. • The first degree can only be requested after a minimum of three (3) years of the black belt graduation. • The second and third grades can be requested only after a minimum period of three (3) years from the previous graduation. • The 4th, 5th and 6th grades can be requested only after a minimum period of 5 (five) years from the previous graduation. • The 7th and 8th grades (red and black belt) can be requested only after a period of 7 (seven) years from the previous graduation. • The 9th degree (red belt) can only be applied after a minimum period of 10 (ten) years from the previous graduation. • The 10th grade (red belt) was given only to the pioneers of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, the Gracie brothers: Carlos, Oswaldo, George, Gaston and Helio. Note: The year or years the athlete does not renew his or her membership and/or register an academy with IBJJF will not count as time towards certifying a degree or degrees.
Ok that's what i was thinking also....because some wellknow french guy just get his 6°degree but he was graduated Black belt on 2000 so he normaly miss two years... it smell like money's involved because the Master who give it to him came at his gym for the first time....and now the publicity is that he's the first european to archive this rank...
Deepu
Deepu
Black beltVerified547 forum posts6260/1000
4 year(s) ago
Ok that's what i was thinking also....because some wellknow french guy just get his 6°degree but he was graduated Black belt on 2000 so he normaly miss two years... it smell like money's involved because the Master who give it to him came at his gym for the first time....and now the publicity is that he's the first european to archive this rank...
Out him! There's been too little drama here recently :) I kid I kid, but ... yeah, sounds like fuckery involved in a race to be the first.
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit ZenthnerOP
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago
Out him! There's been too little drama here recently :) I kid I kid, but ... yeah, sounds like fuckery involved in a race to be the first.
As i say, the guy is legit, and his level is good, but if everybody has to follow the rules... He's one of the tree first french Black belt that i told the story in another post, went from blue to Black belt the same Day with Master Flavio Behring.
I don't understand why making a run like this when you are already a fift degree Black belt, this is in fact amazing by itself....
Bruno Yamamoto
Bruno Yamamoto
Black beltVerifiedEngland - UK58 forum posts3270/1000
4 year(s) ago
Back in the days stripes were common to be given in 2 years. I think for the first 2 stripes. Not sure if for the third it would follow that too. This IBJJF rule came after that, so I guess some old professors still follow this 2 years "rule".
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit ZenthnerOP
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago
Back in the days stripes were common to be given in 2 years. I think for the first 2 stripes. Not sure if for the third it would follow that too. This IBJJF rule came after that, so I guess some old professors still follow this 2 years 'rule'.
good to know, i gonna put another two or tree on my belt tonight XD
Bruno Yamamoto
Bruno Yamamoto
Black beltVerifiedEngland - UK58 forum posts3270/1000
4 year(s) ago
As i say, the guy is legit, and his level is good, but if everybody has to follow the rules... He's one of the tree first french Black belt that i told the story in another post, went from blue to Black belt the same Day with Master Flavio Behring. I don't understand why making a run like this when you are already a fift degree Black belt, this is in fact amazing by itself....
As far as I know Master Malibu doesn't follow IBJJF rules for grading. He was really explicit in one of his promotions in youtube that he doesn't agree with such politics from IBJJF as he knows lots of people who should be be more graded than him and for some reason they are not. He graded Master Carlos Lima to coral belt and talked a bit about that.

https://youtu.be/7vONUMfdJ7c (video in portuguese).

I can be wrong, but that was my understanding. I do speak Portuguese but I can have miss interpreted.
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit ZenthnerOP
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago
As far as I know Master Malibu doesn't follow IBJJF rules for grading. He was really explicit in one of his promotions in youtube that he doesn't agree with such politics from IBJJF as he knows lots of people who should be be more graded than him and for some reason they are not. He graded Master Carlos Lima to coral belt and talked a bit about that. https://youtu.be/7vONUMfdJ7c (video in portuguese). I can be wrong, but that was my understanding. I do speak Portuguese but I can have miss interpreted.
he says at the end, that some people wearing the coral belt have like twenty years of jiu jitsu, then Carlos Lima says he train jiujitsu for 42 or 43 years.
Bruno Yamamoto
Bruno Yamamoto
Black beltVerifiedEngland - UK58 forum posts3270/1000
4 year(s) ago
he says at the end, that some people wearing the coral belt have like twenty years of jiu jitsu, then Carlos Lima says he train jiujitsu for 42 or 43 years.
Yeah, he says in other parts of the video that Carlos Lima was a brown belt for 10 years and he remember of being a lower belt than him. For some reason, probably when back in the days you were more depent on a few specific to grade you (more rivalry as well) some people ended in lower belts for ages.

I think there are also evidences of Helio Gracie giving stripes just because he felt the person deserved not following any time rule. So in theory, we all just decided to follow ibjjf rules as it is something that makes sense to us as practioners.
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit ZenthnerOP
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago
Yeah, he says in other parts of the video that Carlos Lima was a brown belt for 10 years and he remember of being a lower belt than him. For some reason, probably when back in the days you were more depent on a few specific to grade you (more rivalry as well) some people ended in lower belts for ages. I think there are also evidences of Helio Gracie giving stripes just because he felt the person deserved not following any time rule. So in theory, we all just decided to follow ibjjf rules as it is something that makes sense to us as practioners.
To be honest, i didn't listen all the vids, but we had kind of the same long times ago, staying in color belt for long time because no one to graduate you to the next one, sometimes People for others gyms take it faster, because their teacher actualy can give them...
Brad Neumyer
Brad Neumyer
Purple beltVerified128 forum posts1515/400
4 year(s) ago
One thing that gets weird is for people who were promoted before the IBJJF actually started caring about promotion timelines.

Sorry for the link carnage, but as you can see on page 3: https://website-ibjjf-pro[...]a2b245ebd0

The formal IBJJF grading system wasn't codified until 2012. So if you were promoted to black belt prior to then, it seems it was effectively "the wild west". I could totally see early winners of worlds getting hotshotted... or even members of a certain well-known martial arts family being "over ranked" at the time in 2012.
Jorgen Matsi
Jorgen Matsi
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified1772 forum posts17315/1000
4 year(s) ago
Who cares? For those who care and are in the know, they understand.

For those who care and are NOT in the know, that's equivalent to amazing 10-gold stripe ninja masters.
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit ZenthnerOP
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago
Who cares? For those who care and are in the know, they understand. For those who care and are NOT in the know, that's equivalent to amazing 10-gold stripe ninja masters.
the site is calling "beltchecker" so i check belt ;) if the site was called "walkinginthewood" i would be already with my shoes on :) i'm a simple man
Jorgen Matsi
Jorgen Matsi
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified1772 forum posts17315/1000
4 year(s) ago
the site is calling 'beltchecker' so i check belt ;) if the site was called 'walkinginthewood' i would be already with my shoes on :) i'm a simple man
Totally valid point. And it'd be interesting if he'd came to the site.

We can agree that indeed, he is not compliant with IBJJF standard. But neither am I in some ways so I wouldn't be able to look badly at purely that.

At the same time this site has IBJJF-compliant/accepted people that I personally wouldn't consider legit in case I would be able to assess them according to my own understanding of "common sense standard".
Sean Brandle
Sean Brandle
Black belt 1st degreeVerified236 forum posts1320/1000
4 year(s) ago
Totally legitimate because it was two years per stripe back in the day, but the self promotion is hard to stomach.
Sammy
Sammy
Brown beltVerified38 forum posts3545/700
4 year(s) ago
Ok that's what i was thinking also....because some wellknow french guy just get his 6°degree but he was graduated Black belt on 2000 so he normaly miss two years... it smell like money's involved because the Master who give it to him came at his gym for the first time....and now the publicity is that he's the first european to archive this rank...
there's one more 6th Degree black belt in Europe -Master Franco Vacirca
Jorgen Matsi
Jorgen Matsi
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified1772 forum posts17315/1000
4 year(s) ago
there's one more 6th Degree black belt in Europe -Master Franco Vacirca
Now THAT would be interesting to bring out to him. And it SHOULD! Would he change his poster to 2nd :D ?
Itay Leibovich
Itay Leibovich
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified142 forum posts29505/1000
4 year(s) ago
Patrick is legit. I've known him (or of him) for years.
He's been around the Israeli scene since the beginning. being the teacher of one of Israel's BJJ/MMA pioneers in Ido Pariente.
I'm personally not big on following IBJJF regulations for obvious reasons. I don't see myself a part of it, has no need of it and it provide me nothing in relation of my art and practice.
As long as the partitioner is legit and the professor who promotes him is legit... I'm good.
and as Jorgen said, "For those who care and are in the know, they understand."
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit ZenthnerOP
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
4 year(s) ago
Patrick is legit. I've known him (or of him) for years. He's been around the Israeli scene since the beginning. being the teacher of one of Israel's BJJ/MMA pioneers in Ido Pariente. I'm personally not big on following IBJJF regulations for obvious reasons. I don't see myself a part of it, has no need of it and it provide me nothing in relation of my art and practice. As long as the partitioner is legit and the professor who promotes him is legit... I'm good. and as Jorgen said, 'For those who care and are in the know, they understand.'
I also know that he's legit, with high level knowledge, but here we check normaly based on international rules, so if we refere to that it is two years too soon ...but as people says, years ago the time system was different so with 2 years between it grow faster and then look normal.

That's it, the guy is doing great job to promote brazilian jiujitsu and i have nothing against him, i was just asking because it seems too soon if we follow the rules.

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