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Training combat jiu-jitsu
3 year(s) ago • 3735 views • 30 replies
JABlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
How popular is combat jiu-jitsu, do you practice it in your school?
Several of my teachers have fought MMA fights, so I've trained with strikes since starting my BJJ journey, so it's kind of natural that I also teach people on how to fight when opponent is striking.
Combat jiu-jitsu is a kind of way to train safely, where you get used to deal with strikes in a pretty friendly way. Do you agree? :)
Several of my teachers have fought MMA fights, so I've trained with strikes since starting my BJJ journey, so it's kind of natural that I also teach people on how to fight when opponent is striking.
Combat jiu-jitsu is a kind of way to train safely, where you get used to deal with strikes in a pretty friendly way. Do you agree? :)
THBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Not sure how others feel about this but for me I’d prefer not to train combat Jiu Jitsu. I’m an art teacher by profession, so both my hands and my head are pretty important to what I do on a daily basis. The increased risk of damaged fingers/knuckles or added risk of concussion is not worth it. I don’t at all feel the need to hit or get hit. Does this mean I’m less prepared for a real fight, of course. On the other hand I don’t put myself in situations where I need to fight either. Good on anyone who does want to but that’s not why I’m interested in the sport. Wish the best for anyone who chooses to.
JABlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I think the risk of concussion is higher from takedowns than from slaps, and my fingers are way more busted from gripping gi than they ever will be from slaps. I guess you've never trained with slaps?
I'm a software engineer by profession, so also need my hands and head in shape.
I'm a software engineer by profession, so also need my hands and head in shape.
JABlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I do have a funny story, when i was part of people starting a gym. We'd been running the gym for some months. I announced 2 days before a training that we'll train combat jiu-jitsu on Saturday.
3 persons came to the class instead of normal 12-15. :D
Well, so the next time I didn't announce it, we had over 15 people attending. Did the training with slaps in any case. :D Taught how to deal with strikes, how to stay safe and how to train safe. After training everyone agreed it was fun and now people often ask for it. :D
It's not single bit more dangerous than regular jiu-jitsu. Of course it's harder physically as the tempo is harder. You can't rest so easily. Defensive rolling changes a bit.
3 persons came to the class instead of normal 12-15. :D
Well, so the next time I didn't announce it, we had over 15 people attending. Did the training with slaps in any case. :D Taught how to deal with strikes, how to stay safe and how to train safe. After training everyone agreed it was fun and now people often ask for it. :D
It's not single bit more dangerous than regular jiu-jitsu. Of course it's harder physically as the tempo is harder. You can't rest so easily. Defensive rolling changes a bit.
Edited 3 year(s) ago
THBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I think the risk of concussion is higher from takedowns than from slaps, and my fingers are way more busted from gripping gi than they ever will be from slaps. I guess you've never trained with slaps? I'm a software engineer by profession, so also need my hands and head in shape.
Maybe you’re right about the concussions? It’s hard to say though. I rarely hit my head hard in takedowns and if I took a hard hit I would back off for a bit to be sure I was recovered. Most doctors I’ve listened to talk on the subject say that small repeated blows to the head could be just as bad as hard hits. I’m just saying the benefits don’t outweigh the risk for me. As far as fingers go though I give up grips all of the time in training as not to damage my hands. As an art teacher my ability to use my hands to perform small delicate motions is a pretty big part of the instruction. Is always going to be some risk of course but I even favor my non dominant hand for grips pre for this issue. I’m sure it’s fun training and that I would enjoy it in the moment but
JABlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
https://www.instagram.com[...]MyMTA2M2Y=
Here I'm rolling with combat jiu-jitsu rules with my purple belt. As you can see, the amount of contact we use keeps us on the move, as it's important to understand when it's possible to strike hard. Knee on belly, mount, backmount or opponent standing over us for example. Still we're both smiling between the exchanges as the contact is pretty limited, but enough to create discomfort and will to move.
Here I'm rolling with combat jiu-jitsu rules with my purple belt. As you can see, the amount of contact we use keeps us on the move, as it's important to understand when it's possible to strike hard. Knee on belly, mount, backmount or opponent standing over us for example. Still we're both smiling between the exchanges as the contact is pretty limited, but enough to create discomfort and will to move.
MGPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
People already think two dudes rolling around in pajamas or spandex is weird enough, I’m not going to add slap fighting to it.
MJPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Beside from BJJ I train Muay Thai and MMA as well and never really understood what the thrill about Combat Jiu Jitsu is.
I was using it once with a friend, to prepare her for her first competition in terms of increased stress, pressure and randomness.
But I think I'd prefer light MMA sparring over slapping. Personally also because I can acknowledge a good strike, but someone continuously slapping me would annoy the s*** out of me and would probably irritate me way more than regular strikes
I was using it once with a friend, to prepare her for her first competition in terms of increased stress, pressure and randomness.
But I think I'd prefer light MMA sparring over slapping. Personally also because I can acknowledge a good strike, but someone continuously slapping me would annoy the s*** out of me and would probably irritate me way more than regular strikes
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Is eyepokes much of an increased risk compared to regular grappling?
JABlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Doesn't seem so, as in most cases you have to have better control and awareness on opponents hands to avoid striking in any case.
In regular grappling there's lot's of situations where pushing from opponent's head is very valid move, in MMA and combat jiu-jitsu both players are monitoring the hands to avoid strikes way more.
I could make a video of MMA grappling with that same purple belt to show the difference in combat jiu-jitsu and MMA on the ground is pretty minimal, but the mental difference between a slap and a strike with fist seems pretty big. People are way less worried from slaps even thought you can really hurt people with a hard slap. Here I'm demostrating how to slap hard, as it's very beneficial should you compete in CJJ: https://youtu.be/PC4_kaj_xC8
If someone is being annoyed from slaps, I think you might be training with way too minimal intensity. You need to find the balance between not slapping too hard to lose friends but hard enough to create expected reactions. If your training partners slap fron non-optimal positions, they need to learn better technique and understanding on when to use slaps and you need to place your head better. :)
Here's a video of me explaining on how hard you should slap the other one on training: https://youtube.com/clip/[...]U7vYZkCWTY
In regular grappling there's lot's of situations where pushing from opponent's head is very valid move, in MMA and combat jiu-jitsu both players are monitoring the hands to avoid strikes way more.
I could make a video of MMA grappling with that same purple belt to show the difference in combat jiu-jitsu and MMA on the ground is pretty minimal, but the mental difference between a slap and a strike with fist seems pretty big. People are way less worried from slaps even thought you can really hurt people with a hard slap. Here I'm demostrating how to slap hard, as it's very beneficial should you compete in CJJ: https://youtu.be/PC4_kaj_xC8
If someone is being annoyed from slaps, I think you might be training with way too minimal intensity. You need to find the balance between not slapping too hard to lose friends but hard enough to create expected reactions. If your training partners slap fron non-optimal positions, they need to learn better technique and understanding on when to use slaps and you need to place your head better. :)
Here's a video of me explaining on how hard you should slap the other one on training: https://youtube.com/clip/[...]U7vYZkCWTY
AAWhite beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
If Combat Jiu-Jitsu gets popular enough, it naturally follows that the athletes will seek out any edge they can get. I would not doubt that some would consider the iron palm training protocols that you find in some styles of Kung fu. I have seen first hand what a properly trained iron palm can do and it can be devastating (nothing like the cheesy kung fu flicks but impressive enough to make you think twice about tangling with the practitioner).
I would think that might lead to the kinds of head injuries you see in boxing and MMA.
However outside of CJJ i would think that training in the iron palm would greatly benefit us in this sport. The regimen is designed to strengthen and increase the density of the bones and sinew of the hand and forearm. Stronger tissues help prevent injury and would lead to a very solid grip. (the downside is that it takes about 3 years of consistent training every day to fully develop it)
I would think that might lead to the kinds of head injuries you see in boxing and MMA.
However outside of CJJ i would think that training in the iron palm would greatly benefit us in this sport. The regimen is designed to strengthen and increase the density of the bones and sinew of the hand and forearm. Stronger tissues help prevent injury and would lead to a very solid grip. (the downside is that it takes about 3 years of consistent training every day to fully develop it)
CBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Combat jiujitsu is the perfect counter to people who abuse the turtle system. Just yell "SLAP TIME" and start swinging.
I've done it and do it with the MMA guys. Funny thing is, if you do your jiu-jitsu properly they can't slap you effectively. It should be part of the basics, just to teach how to defend against strikes.
I've done it and do it with the MMA guys. Funny thing is, if you do your jiu-jitsu properly they can't slap you effectively. It should be part of the basics, just to teach how to defend against strikes.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
SLAP TIME is a good catalyst for good JUST STAND UP escapes :)
NTBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I don’t train formally in mma but I do like to incorporate light striking in my rolls. I think it depends on what the expectations are of the two participants. The cjj I rule set to me in isolation is not very appealing since I personally would use striking to cause damage and so when I use the slaps, I use them as proxies for punches. Therefore me slapping someone if I’m on bottom is not going to do anything.
My personal mindset is to train with “self defense” in mind so If I agree to roll with light striking, I am also expecting knees, elbows, stomps, and kicks (all light of course) from numerous positions. Since I have a day job, I do this only with certain partners because I don’t want to get beaten into oblivion. My partners and I will reset (tap) if “struck” too hard to acknowledge that we would have received significant damage.
Ultimately though, i do see the cjj rule set as useful for demonstrating how striking can change your base or how strikes create reactions. I also think that for students who do not strike, it is a nice way to remind them that pure grappling as a rule set can lead you to be vulnerable to strikes
My personal mindset is to train with “self defense” in mind so If I agree to roll with light striking, I am also expecting knees, elbows, stomps, and kicks (all light of course) from numerous positions. Since I have a day job, I do this only with certain partners because I don’t want to get beaten into oblivion. My partners and I will reset (tap) if “struck” too hard to acknowledge that we would have received significant damage.
Ultimately though, i do see the cjj rule set as useful for demonstrating how striking can change your base or how strikes create reactions. I also think that for students who do not strike, it is a nice way to remind them that pure grappling as a rule set can lead you to be vulnerable to strikes
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I am actually a striker first and foremost and always train with an eye toward fighting, so my whole grappling game is built around having striking involved.
My original grappling art Naban allows palm strikes so it is natural for me to like CJJ rules. The downside is it does handicap me to a degree when I do straight grappling comps
My original grappling art Naban allows palm strikes so it is natural for me to like CJJ rules. The downside is it does handicap me to a degree when I do straight grappling comps
JPBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I'd say it's not so popular! There has to be a specific reason to have a class like that. Especially for the average Joe. Not everyone wants to get punched or slapped. Maybe include strikes for self defense classes, but an actual class that does CJJ live? I don't see it as a very appealing class for people. I've had a couple of students do EBI CJJ and I have one preparing for an EBI CJJ tournament at the end of the month in Cancun. It's tough to find people that want to grapple and throw hands.
JBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I haven’t trained anyone for a Combat Jiu-Jitsu tournament, but we do incorporate strikes into our training on a regular basis. About half of our training is grappling-only. The other half is with strikes. With white belts, I typically have them use light, open-palm strikes and slaps to keep things safe and playful. Advanced white belts and up will spar with MMA gloves and headgear with a face cage (like the one pictured here). We keep the strikes to about 1/3 power, which is hard enough to respect the shot without giving anybody CTE. :)
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
How popular is combat jiu-jitsu, do you practice it in your school? Several of my teachers have fought MMA fights, so I've trained with strikes since starting my BJJ journey, so it's kind of natural that I also teach people on how to fight when opponent is striking. Combat jiu-jitsu is a kind of way to train safely, where you get used to deal with strikes in a pretty friendly way. Do you agree? :)
I don't think it's super popular; I haven't been able to convince any of my students to compete in CJJ as of yet...
Otherwise, I agree with the rest of your post.
At our school, we have one "combat jiu-jitsu" class, per rotation (every 10 weeks) where we go over distance control and then do "forehead taps"/slapping to simulate striking. I think it's super important both for tradition/posterity sake, as well as imperative to those who have a focus/interest in self-defense and fighting.
Nobody trains with strikes otherwise though, even though I encourage folks to do it. CJJ just isn't all that popular I don't think.
Otherwise, I agree with the rest of your post.
At our school, we have one "combat jiu-jitsu" class, per rotation (every 10 weeks) where we go over distance control and then do "forehead taps"/slapping to simulate striking. I think it's super important both for tradition/posterity sake, as well as imperative to those who have a focus/interest in self-defense and fighting.
Nobody trains with strikes otherwise though, even though I encourage folks to do it. CJJ just isn't all that popular I don't think.
JTBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I find it funny the term combat Jiu jitsu. When I started years ago we trained bjj with strikes. I think the evolution of the sport reduced the striking portion and now it’s being brought back. Just a different name.
JBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I find it funny the term combat Jiu jitsu. When I started years ago we trained bjj with strikes. I think the evolution of the sport reduced the striking portion and now it’s being brought back. Just a different name.
I agree. In my school, Jiu-Jitsu has always been done with strikes (whether for self-defense or MMA). I associate the term "combat" with military training (like the U.S. Modern Army Combatives program).
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SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
To each their own: I don't see the point when you can just do MMA, but if people want to do it, more power to them. Zero chance of it happening at my school, no strikes (punching, kicking or slapping) are ever happening in my classes. :)
JABlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I think most people are not interested in doing MMA, buying the gloves and other protective gear, so this is the easiest way to have some understanding of how to grapple with some form of strikes. And not everywhere there is MMA available with jiujitsu.
The term "combat jiu-jitsu" is probably coming from Eddie Bravo, probably coming bit from having "combat sambo" with regular sambo. It started becoming popular, and with a name it's more marketable. Slap jiu-jitsu doesn't sound as good.
The term "combat jiu-jitsu" is probably coming from Eddie Bravo, probably coming bit from having "combat sambo" with regular sambo. It started becoming popular, and with a name it's more marketable. Slap jiu-jitsu doesn't sound as good.
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I think most people are not interested in doing MMA, buying the gloves and other protective gear, so this is the easiest way to have some understanding of how to grapple with some form of strikes. And not everywhere there is MMA available with jiujitsu. The term 'combat jiu-jitsu' is probably coming from Eddie Bravo, probably coming bit from having 'combat sambo' with regular sambo. It started becoming popular, and with a name it's more marketable. Slap jiu-jitsu doesn't sound as good.
Fair enough, but if you want to grapple with strikes, why learn a substandard version of MMA? That feels a bit like going to an aikido class instead of judo (not as extreme, but along the same lines).
JBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Fair enough, but if you want to grapple with strikes, why learn a substandard version of MMA? That feels a bit like going to an aikido class instead of judo (not as extreme, but along the same lines).
As a judo black belt and former aikido brown belt, I completely identify with this statement. :)
JABlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Fair enough, but if you want to grapple with strikes, why learn a substandard version of MMA? That feels a bit like going to an aikido class instead of judo (not as extreme, but along the same lines).
Because it's easier to get people to do slapping as it's not as intimidating as punching. Also, you can give more focus on the actual submissions as there's no gloves for the other one to grip. Hand-fighting is bit different with gloves. Also, it's easier to begin with, as you don't need the gloves to start as most people are not interested in buying ones.
As you can see here, people are way too intimidated even from slaps, but as you start training with pretty light slapping, people first get used to them, I can put more power to the slaps in small incremental steps, so they also dare to slap me bit harder. I always try to emphasize "you want to stay friends after training, but you also want to give them proper amount of respect to strikes". As you can see from the sparring video I posted earlier, you get very similar reactions you can expect from actual strikes while keeping it playfull.
As you can see here, people are way too intimidated even from slaps, but as you start training with pretty light slapping, people first get used to them, I can put more power to the slaps in small incremental steps, so they also dare to slap me bit harder. I always try to emphasize "you want to stay friends after training, but you also want to give them proper amount of respect to strikes". As you can see from the sparring video I posted earlier, you get very similar reactions you can expect from actual strikes while keeping it playfull.
BTPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
At Gracie University/Academy we do "street fighting, or "fight simulation" with 5.5-ounce gloves or 7 oz...IDR. We train once a week (sometimes more) with these and the emphases are on Defending, Escaping, Controlling, and Submitting. We don't strike for the sake of hitting. Well, some do/may, but we are not supposed to. The teacher helps maintain the training purpose.
The strikes are to show where you are open for blows and to see what your Jiu-jitsu evolves or devolves into with someone trying to hit you.
Our stikes are light and aimed at a person's forehead, stomach, or flank. We never aim at a nose or mouth, but of course, people move so you do get hit all over the place. The point is to help each other grow and not injure your partner, so they can't train with you. it is very safe and fun!
This is one of my favorite forms of self-defense practice. It is not based on a rule set like MMA or any other combat sport. It gives me a reasonable preview of what my self-defense using Jiu-jitsu looks like in hand-to-hand combat.
The strikes are to show where you are open for blows and to see what your Jiu-jitsu evolves or devolves into with someone trying to hit you.
Our stikes are light and aimed at a person's forehead, stomach, or flank. We never aim at a nose or mouth, but of course, people move so you do get hit all over the place. The point is to help each other grow and not injure your partner, so they can't train with you. it is very safe and fun!
This is one of my favorite forms of self-defense practice. It is not based on a rule set like MMA or any other combat sport. It gives me a reasonable preview of what my self-defense using Jiu-jitsu looks like in hand-to-hand combat.
JVBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I teach a drilling and Street self defense class at my school. It’s helpful to sort out which techniques are safe for the street, as well as the type of awareness you need in those situations. Sport Jiu Jitsu is great, but not all of those positions are recommended for combat situation. Headlock defense from every possible variation is a great way to train. (And to get cauliflower ears 👂)
BTPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I teach a drilling and Street self defense class at my school. It’s helpful to sort out which techniques are safe for the street, as well as the type of awareness you need in those situations. Sport Jiu Jitsu is great, but not all of those positions are recommended for combat situation. Headlock defense from every possible variation is a great way to train. (And to get cauliflower ears 👂)
Yep, my right ear gets it worse!
MGBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I think the risk of concussion is higher from takedowns than from slaps, and my fingers are way more busted from gripping gi than they ever will be from slaps. I guess you've never trained with slaps? I'm a software engineer by profession, so also need my hands and head in shape.
It's really important to learn safe falling. It's perhaps the most important reason that basic judo should be taught as part of a BJJ curriculum, but no one should EVER get a concussion from being taken down. I also heavily emphasize the importance of a loose grip. You actually get better control than a tight grip, and in 64 years of martial arts grappling, I've never had to tape my fingers.
DP
Black belt 3rd degreePending
3 year(s) ago
Random question, Are you guys that are doing combat jiu jitsu modifying your student waivers at all?
