I am curious what the consensus is about heel hooks in the gi. Throughout my years training it has always been a no no to heelhook in the gi. I understand that the ability to slip out of this attack is lessened by the friction of the gi, creating more opportunities for injury. The only issue I have with this logic is that every submission is harder to slip out of in the gi. I teach my students to show control of all submissions before applying the leverage to finish. I would love to hear everyone's respectful opinion on this matter. all the best!!!

I have never in all my time in training heard of a heel hook being legal when we're wearing a gi in a tournament. And since we're only wearing the gi because we're doing sport BJJ, then in my book it's the same thing as throwing a punch, slamming me in a triangle, or biting me. So if you try to heel hook me when we are wearing a gi expect to get punched.

For me, it depends on the context. If I’m teaching self-defense (which is most of the time), then I allow students to heel hook while wearing the gi. I don’t let my white belts heel hook in sparring, though, regardless of the uniform, since they usually don’t have the sensitivity to apply the submission carefully. If I’m preparing students for a tournament, then I stick to the competition rules for their division.

I am curious what the consensus is about heel hooks in the gi.

I have never in all my time in training heard of a heel hook being legal when we're wearing a gi in a tournament. And since we're only wearing the gi because we're doing sport BJJ, then in my book it's the same thing as throwing a punch, slamming me in a triangle, or biting me. So if you try to heel hook me when we are wearing a gi expect to get punched.

A simple, 'hey no heelhooks' would solve that issue without a punch being thrown. It all comes down to what the particular academy allows or doesn't allow. If not allowed, of course it should not be applied. If allowed then everything is fair game. All players should know this in advance to avoid any misunderstanding.

I understand your point. My question refers to why only heelhooks not being allowed. Knee bar or toehold is fine?

There are no heel hooks in a gi. This is a universally understood thing in the BJJ community as far as I know. It's no different than throwing a punch in a gi. No different than trying to bite me or neck crank me. If we are doing no-gi or MMA of course it's expected. I'm not saying I agree with that, just saying it's one of many things that are not a part of BJJ training in a Gi.

There are no heel hooks in a gi. This is a universally understood thing in the BJJ community as far as I know. It's no different than throwing a punch in a gi. No different than trying to bite me or neck crank me. If we are doing no-gi or MMA of course it's expected. I'm not saying I agree with that, just saying it's one of many things that are not a part of BJJ training in a Gi.

I think the no heel hooks in gi in competition is silly but it's the rule. No heel hooks in gi in training is silly, unless you're training strictly for competition. Gi and no gi both have self-defense application pieces to them, and it's good to train in both for that purpose. There are other motivations for training jiu-jitsu other than just self-defense or just competition. Some people want to learn the art in its entirety, and heel hooks are a part of jiu-jitsu's art. I think reasonable, safe application of any submission in training is good. If you crank an armbar, someone gets hurt. If you haphazardly apply a heel hook in gi or no gi, someone gets hurt. The douche move is carelessly or intentionally doing something that can or does hurt your training partner. Communication is such a simple concept, and so is subordination of ego. Both of those will prevent a LOT of injuries/incidents.

Simply not practicing heel hooks in the GI at most academies has probably literally prevented over 10000 injuries and hundreds of surgeries.

If you can remove maybe just 5 of the highest injury causes. Like scissor takedowns and jumping guard, slams etc... And those 5 things alone say reduce everyone's injury chance by half. Seems smart It's not who's best but who's left.

Hence why I say reasonable application. It's like others have said reference catch and release. You can always restrict it to higher belts who have more control. I'm not suggesting you teach white belts to start slapping on heel hooks in gi from day one with reckless abandon. Anyway, to each his/her own.

Got bad news for you Joe.. We punch in the Gi too at the academy. Lol Different strokes for different folks. Don't worry about what other people are doing and keep on keeping on.

In every class?

You can tap to a heel hook before any damage is done. You cannot tap to a punch before it hits you. I assume you’re being hyperbolic but if you really think that’s an appropriate response you should reassess.

Here's another take on it: I roll with TONS of people all the time who are either visitors or newbies at my gym, or people from other gyms I happen to be visiting at the time. Since there are so many people come from such different types of backgrounds, I keep it as kosher as possible by playing within your standard competition rule sets as much as possible, i.e... - never calf/biceps slice blue belts - never wrist lock white belts - never ever reap or heel hook in a gi But if it's obvious that the gym I'm visiting has a different culture, I guess that's what I'm doing that day, as I'm a guest and should follow their rules. I think getting punched out of nowhere would be a bit of a surprise for me, but when in Rome, I suppose? At my gym I try and encourage folks to follow the above guidelines, as being as conservative as possible in this regard can help to prevent misunderstandings. You can always go full kumite with your standard training partners another time.

In every class?

I think the no heel hooks in gi in competition is silly but it's the rule. No heel hooks in gi in training is silly, unless you're training strictly for competition. Gi and no gi both have self-defense application pieces to them, and it's good to train in both for that purpose. There are other motivations for training jiu-jitsu other than just self-defense or just competition. Some people want to learn the art in its entirety, and heel hooks are a part of jiu-jitsu's art. I think reasonable, safe application of any submission in training is good. If you crank an armbar, someone gets hurt. If you haphazardly apply a heel hook in gi or no gi, someone gets hurt. The douche move is carelessly or intentionally doing something that can or does hurt your training partner. Communication is such a simple concept, and so is subordination of ego. Both of those will prevent a LOT of injuries/incidents.