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don't use your strength!
3 year(s) ago • 1351 views • 29 replies
MKBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I had a fun conversation with my students the other day about the common cliché told to big guys "Don't use your strength". Now I understand why we use that phrase, but you never hear anyone tell a smaller individual don't use your speed or quickness. We never tell someone who is flexible to not use their flexibility. We all have advantages and disadvantages based on body type or things that we worked years to develop such as strength, speed or flexibility. Is it a copout for someone to say "don't use strength" when they themselves are probably using a different type of advantage they have?
I look forward to hearing everyone's opinion.
I look forward to hearing everyone's opinion.
Edited 3 year(s) ago
MGPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
If you are 300 lbs and have to use strength against someone that’s 140 to execute your techniques, you’re going to have a tough time with someone your own size. So I’d say it’s not about not using your advantages, it’s about knowing when and where to use them.
MKBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
If you are 300 lbs and have to use strength against someone that’s 140 to execute your techniques, you’re going to have a tough time with someone your own size. So I’d say it’s not about not using your advantages, it’s about knowing when and where to use them.
yes, that is why we say use technique over strength. When you see 130lbs grapplers doing backflips and hopping like bunnies to pass larger opponets guard we don't say hey when you go against guys your own size..... It is funny to think about it on the flipside.
MGPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
yes, that is why we say use technique over strength. When you see 130lbs grapplers doing backflips and hopping like bunnies to pass larger opponets guard we don't say hey when you go against guys your own size..... It is funny to think about it on the flipside.
The thing is though, guys that are really flexible are always going to be really flexible no matter the opponent. Guys that are fast are always going to be fast, no matter the opponent. Guys that are stronger due to a size difference are only going to be stronger against smaller people.
*Typed too much to edit, read people instead of guys*
*Typed too much to edit, read people instead of guys*
MGPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Now if you’re a person that has a strength advantage due to being physically stronger than your opponent and not because of a size difference, that’s a different story. Example: Dylan Royce.
MGPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Disclaimer: I’m just a purple belt, I don’t really know what I’m talking about.
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Telling a giant white belt not to use strength is like telling someone who has never ridden a bike before, "don't fall off".
It's good advice, but ultimately it's just not helpful.
Just like you would tell a new bicyclist, "hey, you're going to fall off. It's natural".
"Try this instead".
"I'll help you through until you are able to ride with a minimal risk of falling off your bike. "...
You would expect that with a little persistence and patience, the person, no matter how dense they are, will eventually get it.
It's good advice, but ultimately it's just not helpful.
Just like you would tell a new bicyclist, "hey, you're going to fall off. It's natural".
"Try this instead".
"I'll help you through until you are able to ride with a minimal risk of falling off your bike. "...
You would expect that with a little persistence and patience, the person, no matter how dense they are, will eventually get it.
ロPurple beltVerified
BBPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I had a fun conversation with my students the other day about the common cliché told to big guys 'Don't use your strength'. Now I understand why we use that phrase, but you never hear anyone tell a smaller individual don't use your speed or quickness. We never tell someone who is flexible to not use their flexibility. We all have advantages and disadvantages based on body type or things that we worked years to develop such as strength, speed or flexibility. Is it a copout for someone to say 'don't use strength' when they themselves are probably using a different type of advantage they have? I look forward to hearing everyone's opinion.
People make comments about me using strength from time to time; usually very little, more leverage than anything. For example I tend to hit the fatboy roll from turtle a lot, doesn't take much strength, leverage and gravity does all the work. Also I do an escape from bottom side control where one arm goes over and grabs the belt, the other bases in the gut and I roll them over. Really not using anything more than pure mass and leverage.
ANBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Use everything you have, efficiently
JSPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Also I do an escape from bottom side control where one arm goes over and grabs the belt, the other bases in the gut and I roll them over.
I love that reversal. I play push with my forearm on their neck until they commit their weight over my central line, only then I get that arm over and grab their belt or cross-face shoulder. It relies more on opportunity and timing, since I'm not pulling them by their belt towards my central line, but I feel my arm is less exposed this way.
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
"Don't use your technical superiority!" - Not as silly as it might sound. We might need to hold back in all different kinds of ways for both partners to get something out of rolling with each other. Using it as a tool for isolating parts we want to get extra practise on, we might even gain from holding back, even rolling with our belt and strength peers. So of course, it can be good to hold back on strength for similar reasons.
They should of course still learn to be able to use the strength when it really counts, which includes conserving strength when it is not really needed. For strong fellows, I believe that is an important leasson we higher belts need to give them - let them use all their strength against us and let them experience how their strength is not a constant (unlike e.g. your ability to apply pressure using weight and gravity, frames etc.). Having felt first hand how their performance detoriates until they're an easy match to finish makes them appreciate help in developing a more stamina conservative game.
They should of course still learn to be able to use the strength when it really counts, which includes conserving strength when it is not really needed. For strong fellows, I believe that is an important leasson we higher belts need to give them - let them use all their strength against us and let them experience how their strength is not a constant (unlike e.g. your ability to apply pressure using weight and gravity, frames etc.). Having felt first hand how their performance detoriates until they're an easy match to finish makes them appreciate help in developing a more stamina conservative game.
MKBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
VBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Disclaimer: I’m just a purple belt, I don’t really know what I’m talking about.
Everything you said is right on the money 💰
JJBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Every muscle requires oxygen.
The more muscle the more oxygen it requires.
You use multiple muscles when grappling.
The more strength you use from each muscle depletes those individual muscles energy. You can fatigue entire muscles without fatiguing others. You can rotate muscle energy usage to restore energy while using energy elsewhere.
Speed and flexibility can drain energy but normally at slower rates but are not affected much by your opponents size while strength is.
Use whatever attributes you have just understand the energy sustainability mechanic for your muscles.
Energy is the true HP bar.
The more muscle the more oxygen it requires.
You use multiple muscles when grappling.
The more strength you use from each muscle depletes those individual muscles energy. You can fatigue entire muscles without fatiguing others. You can rotate muscle energy usage to restore energy while using energy elsewhere.
Speed and flexibility can drain energy but normally at slower rates but are not affected much by your opponents size while strength is.
Use whatever attributes you have just understand the energy sustainability mechanic for your muscles.
Energy is the true HP bar.
CBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
There's a saying: "roll like a potato".
Basically means find the path of least resistance and try to have fun doing it.
Some times the end result is mashed potato, but hey that's life.
Basically means find the path of least resistance and try to have fun doing it.
Some times the end result is mashed potato, but hey that's life.
Edited 3 year(s) ago
BBPurple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Energy is the true HP bar.
Speaking of energy. A few times after drills we skipped the high speed cardio drills and did an hour long roll instead. Only switching partners on submission if another person is submitted around the same time. No breaks. I really enjoy it. Of course the energy output is on-par with my typical rolls - low and slow.
ANBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
actually i say dont use strenght
dont rely on your flexibility too much
if you can do it fast try slow thats harder and proof of better technique
if you cant be caught cause you too good put yourself in bad spots
if its a small woman you roll with try just sweep her with the use of one arm
if you can stop using your hands
good then then up to the elbows
forget frames at all
your feet dont cross them thats gonna make defending leglocks even against mediocre grapplers much harder
next step just dont even guard
let them past your legs and try to sweep/submit them from there
still too easy ? close your eyes...
and dont just try to survive try to sweep, pass, take backs
all while barely allowing yourself to use anything
and not just against small whitebelts
challenge yourself asmuch as possible
until you end up getting your ass kicked repeatedly
that said i am a big tall strong flexible guy.
it took long to fully realize the worth of this mindset
but let me tell you its pure gold
jiu jitsu means all to me
and i got around 500 comp matches
10 professional mma fights and so on
telling you thats the way
BUT thats a advice for very skilled or/and gifted people
first you need to develop strenght/flexibility/speed/technique/experience and so on you need to feel and understand all of that be able to utilize it with maximum effectiveness
only then you start letting go of it all to really improve
its a very long journey
and takes alot of dedication
but thats the fun part it never ends it just gets deeper and deeper
dont rely on your flexibility too much
if you can do it fast try slow thats harder and proof of better technique
if you cant be caught cause you too good put yourself in bad spots
if its a small woman you roll with try just sweep her with the use of one arm
if you can stop using your hands
good then then up to the elbows
forget frames at all
your feet dont cross them thats gonna make defending leglocks even against mediocre grapplers much harder
next step just dont even guard
let them past your legs and try to sweep/submit them from there
still too easy ? close your eyes...
and dont just try to survive try to sweep, pass, take backs
all while barely allowing yourself to use anything
and not just against small whitebelts
challenge yourself asmuch as possible
until you end up getting your ass kicked repeatedly
that said i am a big tall strong flexible guy.
it took long to fully realize the worth of this mindset
but let me tell you its pure gold
jiu jitsu means all to me
and i got around 500 comp matches
10 professional mma fights and so on
telling you thats the way
BUT thats a advice for very skilled or/and gifted people
first you need to develop strenght/flexibility/speed/technique/experience and so on you need to feel and understand all of that be able to utilize it with maximum effectiveness
only then you start letting go of it all to really improve
its a very long journey
and takes alot of dedication
but thats the fun part it never ends it just gets deeper and deeper
SSBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I tell my big guys the smaller, faster, more flexible people aren’t going to stop or apologize for the advantages they have. So don’t apologize for being big - use it. When you start crushing everyone else at your belt level, then we’ll talk about how to dial it back. Until then, squish the little people. Learn how to make them tap just with pressure. Use whatever you’ve got and don’t feel bad about it. But if you reach the point that it feels too easy, we can tweak how you roll to make it more challenging.
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I am not apalogizing because my daddy is bigger than your daddy...
It's funny I do Ultra Heavy at a lost of tournaments and am at the bottom end of the division 220 to 225. Guys say to me a lot your the strongest guy I have rolled with but I wasn't using my strength. To me there is a huge difference between a guy using strength and just being exceedingly strong.
If you get shark tanked and the 6th guy around your size complains about your strength you really are not using strength as you would have died after the second guy
It's funny I do Ultra Heavy at a lost of tournaments and am at the bottom end of the division 220 to 225. Guys say to me a lot your the strongest guy I have rolled with but I wasn't using my strength. To me there is a huge difference between a guy using strength and just being exceedingly strong.
If you get shark tanked and the 6th guy around your size complains about your strength you really are not using strength as you would have died after the second guy
Edited 3 year(s) ago
FFBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Some time ago there was this purple belt guy in the gym, rolling with a fresh white belt.
Purple belt guy was 70kg, white belt guy was 90kg and very, very fit and muscular.
Purple belt couldn't submit him and at the end of the round he told him: You use too much strenght.
What the hell? The guy just gave him a reality check, his technique was not good enough to submit somebody that heavy and strong, and his reaction was "You use too much strenght"? What if it was a self defence situation? And what should white belt guy do, stop lifting for 6 months, then come back and now see if he could hold himself against the lighter guy?
Strenght is a technique. If you have it, use it. The problem is not strenght but one uncontrolled use of it that might cause injuries. If you don't do explosive shit that breaks something, use your strenght. Just like you should use your speed, stamina or whatever else. Then we can go in the conversation of trying to develop other attributes, but that's not the point right now.
Purple belt guy was 70kg, white belt guy was 90kg and very, very fit and muscular.
Purple belt couldn't submit him and at the end of the round he told him: You use too much strenght.
What the hell? The guy just gave him a reality check, his technique was not good enough to submit somebody that heavy and strong, and his reaction was "You use too much strenght"? What if it was a self defence situation? And what should white belt guy do, stop lifting for 6 months, then come back and now see if he could hold himself against the lighter guy?
Strenght is a technique. If you have it, use it. The problem is not strenght but one uncontrolled use of it that might cause injuries. If you don't do explosive shit that breaks something, use your strenght. Just like you should use your speed, stamina or whatever else. Then we can go in the conversation of trying to develop other attributes, but that's not the point right now.
CBBrown beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Strenght is a technique.
I'd take it a step further and say that technique is nothing more than the efficient use of strength. It's literally impossible NOT to use strength. If you're moving, your using strength.
Now, I do have games I do as warm ups where I don't want people using strength. But saying, don't use strength is useless, as everyone always thinks they're not using strength. Instead, I tell them to, use the intensity of when you would play with a two year old. Everyone seems to regulate their responses better that way.
Now, I do have games I do as warm ups where I don't want people using strength. But saying, don't use strength is useless, as everyone always thinks they're not using strength. Instead, I tell them to, use the intensity of when you would play with a two year old. Everyone seems to regulate their responses better that way.
RBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
A few different thoughts on this:
1.) You shouldn't RELY on strength too often. The goal should be to strive for technique so efficient, strength plays less and less of a factor in your success or failure of execution.
2.) EFFECTIVE and DELIBERATE use of strength isn't a bad thing and will always play a role despite our best efforts or intentions to use less strength. The less experienced will be tense and over-reliant on strength from GO, and that's the problem.
3.) I think jiu-jitsu in an ideal sense utilizes very little strength to force things into being. When you have two students at the same level, physical attributes will come into play, but someone clearly higher level should be able to execute techniques with seemingly little effort.
4.) When grappling someone stronger, you are challenged to use strategy and tactics to fight around it rather than going head-on against their strength.
1.) You shouldn't RELY on strength too often. The goal should be to strive for technique so efficient, strength plays less and less of a factor in your success or failure of execution.
2.) EFFECTIVE and DELIBERATE use of strength isn't a bad thing and will always play a role despite our best efforts or intentions to use less strength. The less experienced will be tense and over-reliant on strength from GO, and that's the problem.
3.) I think jiu-jitsu in an ideal sense utilizes very little strength to force things into being. When you have two students at the same level, physical attributes will come into play, but someone clearly higher level should be able to execute techniques with seemingly little effort.
4.) When grappling someone stronger, you are challenged to use strategy and tactics to fight around it rather than going head-on against their strength.
Edited 3 year(s) ago
SEBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I think, the advice not to use the strength to a white belt means not to destroy the step by step technical progress by building bypasses and using abbreviations via pure power.
Another point is, that powerful whitebelts sometimes going spazzy to prevent technical success of opponents.
Another point is, that powerful whitebelts sometimes going spazzy to prevent technical success of opponents.
DBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
actually i say dont use strenght dont rely on your flexibility too much if you can do it fast try slow thats harder and proof of better technique if you cant be caught cause you too good put yourself in bad spots if its a small woman you roll with try just sweep her with the use of one arm if you can stop using your hands good then then up to the elbows forget frames at all your feet dont cross them thats gonna make defending leglocks even against mediocre grapplers much harder next step just dont even guard let them past your legs and try to sweep/submit them from there still too easy ? close your eyes... and dont just try to survive try to sweep, pass, take backs all while barely allowing yourself to use anything and not just against small whitebelts challenge yourself asmuch as possible until you end up getting your ass kicked repeatedly that said i am a big tall strong flexible guy. it took long to fully realize the worth of this mindset but let me tell you its pure gold jiu jitsu means all to me and i got around 500 comp matches 10 professional mma fights and so on telling you thats the way BUT thats a advice for very skilled or/and gifted people first you need to develop strenght/flexibility/speed/technique/experience and so on you need to feel and understand all of that be able to utilize it with maximum effectiveness only then you start letting go of it all to really improve its a very long journey and takes alot of dedication but thats the fun part it never ends it just gets deeper and deeper
This mindset is the long term solution to jiu jitsu. The older you get, the more this mindset just kicks in as you have no choice. Excellent post.
Edited 3 year(s) ago
GWhite beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I just started my journey and was never an athlete. There are always times that surprise me that technique got me far when up against younger, stronger, athletes at the same belt level. (White 1)
JBBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
My advice to anyone who trains is… eat açai for breakfast and lift weights daily. Get strong and smash people. Smashing will only make them better over time.
MGBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
The problem lies when people rely on strength and never emphasize developing technique. Using strength without applying leverage or body mechanics is a waste, and in many ways strong beginners have a disadvantage and learn more slowly than their weaker counterparts. I will often tell students that they are relying on strength too much. But that is very different from saying "don't use your strength". The other issue is that people who depend on strength usually get winded very quickly. Often it is because they neglect proper breathing, but just needing more oxygen due to muscle use is definitely a factor.
MRBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I think strength is okay if it’s utilized with timing and technique
JABlack belt 1st degreePending
3 year(s) ago
I had a fun conversation with my students the other day about the common cliché told to big guys 'Don't use your strength'. Now I understand why we use that phrase, but you never hear anyone tell a smaller individual don't use your speed or quickness. We never tell someone who is flexible to not use their flexibility. We all have advantages and disadvantages based on body type or things that we worked years to develop such as strength, speed or flexibility. Is it a copout for someone to say 'don't use strength' when they themselves are probably using a different type of advantage they have? I look forward to hearing everyone's opinion.
"Don't use strength" is a shorthand in my opinion. Strength isn't necessarily a problem, BUT if you're using strength in place of technique, this is a problem. (Excessive strength also highlights that they aren't using what they have efficiently - maybe pushing with arms instead of shrimping, maybe pulling the partner when they should take an angle.)
There is a caveat - for white and blue belts, i think we can all see that this concept will take some time to learn, so i usually am not surprised or upset about them using brute strength. It'll take time, instruction, reminders.
The ultimate goal, though, is to use just enough strength or tension to not overpower your rolling partner. In gyms where i feel most comfortable, both partners take care of each other, get good work in and I'm ideally not getting launched several feet from my partner several times a roll.
***Edit: To address the intial question, i think strength more often substitutes for technique in a way speed or flexibility can't as universally. Like if you have speed and flexibility, you'll still need technique, but if you have excessive strength - I've heard big guys say they got pretty far before they realized they weren't using technique.
*not competition advice, but this is the environment i want to be in
There is a caveat - for white and blue belts, i think we can all see that this concept will take some time to learn, so i usually am not surprised or upset about them using brute strength. It'll take time, instruction, reminders.
The ultimate goal, though, is to use just enough strength or tension to not overpower your rolling partner. In gyms where i feel most comfortable, both partners take care of each other, get good work in and I'm ideally not getting launched several feet from my partner several times a roll.
***Edit: To address the intial question, i think strength more often substitutes for technique in a way speed or flexibility can't as universally. Like if you have speed and flexibility, you'll still need technique, but if you have excessive strength - I've heard big guys say they got pretty far before they realized they weren't using technique.
*not competition advice, but this is the environment i want to be in
Edited 3 year(s) ago
