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Gym inclusivity
3 year(s) ago • 8726 views • 76 replies
Brown beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Wanted to wait a bit before I posted on the form. Scroll down for the tl:dr.
I have always found jiujitsu gyms are very inclusive (generally speaking ). It doesn’t matter what race, religion, sexual orientation, political affiliation, profession or whatever…if you want to do Jiujitsu, leave all that at the door and come on in. Some gyms even have a women’s self defense class as well as a class to aid law enforcement in de-escalation of force.
And here is where the pendulum swings the other way. I ran across a Jiujitsu gym’s website (scouting different gyms while I’m on a work trip) and this one gym specifically states that in order to create a safe environment for its members…law enforcement are NOT allowed to train. I have never seen that in any of the gym’s i have ever been to or looked up. I just wanted to know thoughts on that. I get it, it’s a business, and the proprietor can refuse service but damn, that left my head scratching. Mods…if this is too hot button, feel free to remove.
Tl:dr Jiujitsu gym refuses Law Enforcement personnel to train at gym
Edit: Jiujitsu Gym is in the US
I have always found jiujitsu gyms are very inclusive (generally speaking ). It doesn’t matter what race, religion, sexual orientation, political affiliation, profession or whatever…if you want to do Jiujitsu, leave all that at the door and come on in. Some gyms even have a women’s self defense class as well as a class to aid law enforcement in de-escalation of force.
And here is where the pendulum swings the other way. I ran across a Jiujitsu gym’s website (scouting different gyms while I’m on a work trip) and this one gym specifically states that in order to create a safe environment for its members…law enforcement are NOT allowed to train. I have never seen that in any of the gym’s i have ever been to or looked up. I just wanted to know thoughts on that. I get it, it’s a business, and the proprietor can refuse service but damn, that left my head scratching. Mods…if this is too hot button, feel free to remove.
Tl:dr Jiujitsu gym refuses Law Enforcement personnel to train at gym
Edit: Jiujitsu Gym is in the US
Edited 3 year(s) ago
Purple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I saw that too and it appears there is A LOT of marijuana being smoked there so I can understand not wanting LEOs to attend.
Noel MinOP
Brown beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I saw that too and it appears there is A LOT of marijuana being smoked there so I can understand not wanting LEOs to attend.
Yeah, they boast that but it is legal in that city and according to some reviews, they have a kids program. Not that ones has anything to do with the other, I guess?
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Overall, yes, I agree: bjj gyms are fairly inclusive... unless you're a gay man. We've had a decent amount of openly gay men who have trained with us, and many of them have had similar experiences of not being welcome in other gyms.
In regards to LEO's, seems like the gym you're describing is definitely not the norm. I think most gyms actively try and attract LEO's, from what I've seen.
While my gym is something like a "hippie gym", we definitely don't exclude LEO's, but unfortunately we haven't had an LEO come through our gym in years.
In regards to LEO's, seems like the gym you're describing is definitely not the norm. I think most gyms actively try and attract LEO's, from what I've seen.
While my gym is something like a "hippie gym", we definitely don't exclude LEO's, but unfortunately we haven't had an LEO come through our gym in years.
Black belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
That’s wild. Cops need as much grappling training as they can get. A Jiu Jitsu gym turning police away is the dumbest, most short-sighted thing I’ve heard today.
Noel MinOP
Brown beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
That’s wild. Cops need as much grappling training as they can get. A Jiu Jitsu gym turning police away is the dumbest, most short-sighted thing I’ve heard today.
Agreed. It’s no surprise the gym is a weed culture gym in city where it is recreational legal (nothing wrong with that at all) They aren’t hiding anything. So the “no cops” rule is a head scratcher for me.
Purple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Cops need more constitutional rights training than BJJ. If you look at the stuff floating around on YouTube it looks like the president declared Marshal Law and every police department was an offshoot of RENO 911. In Georgia an officer suplexed a guy on his way to work, not to mention the amount of abuse that has been inflicted on the handicap, and then there are racial cases that are something out of a horror movie. Not to mention the veteran suicides that are suicide by cop the US media tosses under the rug.
A lot of those issues you see could be prevented by training.
Purple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Not by training to induces harm. Most of our issues stem from Hollywood induced norms in film and television. The truth is men and women in uniform, both military and law enforcement, aren't as nearly as competent as projected in film. Training law enforcement to ditch the psychotic cop persona and learn how regulate with humanity so they aren't replaced by robots goes against the technology companies which want to replace them with robots.
Most police officers do not make headlines like those you've mentioned. In my experience, the police academy does a good job of teaching current case law and constitutional rights, and most of the police officers I have worked with keep current in this area. What I saw prevailing in the police community was a lack of physical ability, which escalates any situation where a suspect is not compliant. Training jiu-jitsu as an officer will keep the lizard brain in check during a stressful encounter more than a 4.0 GPA in constitutional law ever will.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Our gym is 100% inclusive. Except for Nazis. I did have to tell a guy with a swastika tattoo that he couldn’t train with us. Everybody else is welcome as long as they train hard and have a good attitude.
I can’t imagine telling law enforcement officers that they weren’t welcome. Some of my very best students over the years have been LEOs and I have always given them a discount on their dues (along with other first-responders, military personnel, students, teachers, etc.). It’s important to maintain a good relationship between law enforcement and the rest of the community, and I think we should do what we can to honor the sacrifices that LEOs often have to make.
I can’t imagine telling law enforcement officers that they weren’t welcome. Some of my very best students over the years have been LEOs and I have always given them a discount on their dues (along with other first-responders, military personnel, students, teachers, etc.). It’s important to maintain a good relationship between law enforcement and the rest of the community, and I think we should do what we can to honor the sacrifices that LEOs often have to make.
Purple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
How is Jiu-jitsu going to apply here? https://youtu.be/Gy__ZFgC6FI
He was shot 9 times not 50 so you can already see some issues with the reporting. However, the man who was armed, is alleged to have pointed the gun at deputies upon their arrival. If that is in fact what happened, the response was appropriate. However, jiu jitsu, applies in a lot of ways besides just the technical application. In my own experience, I feel that I am typically the calmest and most in control of my coworkers when responding to stressful situations. You could attribute this to personality alone, but I feel that being repeatedly placed in difficult positions in jiu jitsu has helped me respond more positively to stressors. I also feel that the officers that feel inadequate due to lack of training are the ones that escalate as they tend to raise their voices and make threats in hopes to gain compliance because they are afraid of going hands on.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
How is Jiu-jitsu going to apply here? https://youtu.be/Gy__ZFgC6FI
The case in the video is atypical because the officers are obviously well outside of grappling range, so Jiu-Jitsu is clearly not helpful. Often, when officers engage suspects, it happens at much closer distances (well inside the “7-yard rule” limit).
The usefulness of Jiu-Jitsu (and other empty hand fighting systems) is in the ability to control a suspect without escalating violence. I am not a law enforcement officer, but I have trained quite a few of them over the years, so I’m familiar with the force continuum, which starts with officer presence, and then goes to empty hand control techniques, less-than-lethal force (OC spray, baton, or taser), and then lethal force (firearms). Due to funding limitations, many officers in the U.S. do not receive regular training in empty hand control techniques (or even less-than-lethal weapons techniques) after the academy. Regular Jiu-Jitsu training can prevent premature escalation of force by making officers more comfortable with the lower levels of the force continuum.
The usefulness of Jiu-Jitsu (and other empty hand fighting systems) is in the ability to control a suspect without escalating violence. I am not a law enforcement officer, but I have trained quite a few of them over the years, so I’m familiar with the force continuum, which starts with officer presence, and then goes to empty hand control techniques, less-than-lethal force (OC spray, baton, or taser), and then lethal force (firearms). Due to funding limitations, many officers in the U.S. do not receive regular training in empty hand control techniques (or even less-than-lethal weapons techniques) after the academy. Regular Jiu-Jitsu training can prevent premature escalation of force by making officers more comfortable with the lower levels of the force continuum.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Feel free to send anyone my direction. That said, we have only one group that we do not allow in our gym at all. That is registered sex offenders. I have had a couple of them ask, and I politely told them that I could not allow them to train with us.
Purple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
The video cuts out the reload and additional ammo dump. There is a raw version out. But you just proved my point when you stated you were more comfortable going hands on rather than using verbal deescalation and lawful commands. You're already entering into a situation with qualified immunity. The last thing you want on your conscious is that you framed hundreds of people for crimes that you provoked due to your ego or power trip. Jiu-jitsu is a great way to build understanding, but a true warrior relies on wit and diplomacy.
You don't have a point because you don't know what you're talking about. It doesn't matter how many times the video cuts, I've read the report. He was shot nine times and survived. You're the same guy spreading misinformation about Marcelo Garcia. Also, being comfortable going hands on does not mean someone does not prefer de-escalation, in fact in most cases, those most comfortable are those most likely to have success de-escalating.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Feel free to send anyone my direction. That said, we have only one group that we do not allow in our gym at all. That is registered sex offenders. I have had a couple of them ask, and I politely told them that I could not allow them to train with us.
I’ll second that. One passage from my liability release reads, “I have not been convicted of a violent crime, I am not currently under investigation or facing criminal prosecution for any violent crime, nor am I facing civil litigation for any acts of violence.”
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I would never train at a place that chose to not include LEO or any group of people for that matter. I have trained a lot of LEO's and never had any negative feedback on them
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
He was shot 9 times not 50 so you can already see some issues with the reporting. However, the man who was armed, is alleged to have pointed the gun at deputies upon their arrival. If that is in fact what happened, the response was appropriate. However, jiu jitsu, applies in a lot of ways besides just the technical application. In my own experience, I feel that I am typically the calmest and most in control of my coworkers when responding to stressful situations. You could attribute this to personality alone, but I feel that being repeatedly placed in difficult positions in jiu jitsu has helped me respond more positively to stressors. I also feel that the officers that feel inadequate due to lack of training are the ones that escalate as they tend to raise their voices and make threats in hopes to gain compliance because they are afraid of going hands on.
There is no sense in debating someone who has their mind closed to anything outside their chosen narrative
Edited 3 year(s) ago
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
There is no sense in debating someone who has their mind closed to anything outside their chosen narrative
Facts.
Brown beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I am LEO, half of our team consists of LEOs… can’t think of a better delivery system for LEOs than Grappling!
Not allowing LEOs train in the academy is a no brainer to me.
I often hear „on our mat everyone is equal“, but in my opinion not:
I won’t let anybody allow to train in our group, who is for example far right (Nazis), extremely left (all the idiots who say ACAB- all cops are bastards, etc…), people who don’t train with women, because they are women, etc….
Not allowing LEOs train in the academy is a no brainer to me.
I often hear „on our mat everyone is equal“, but in my opinion not:
I won’t let anybody allow to train in our group, who is for example far right (Nazis), extremely left (all the idiots who say ACAB- all cops are bastards, etc…), people who don’t train with women, because they are women, etc….
Brown beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Jigaro Kano created a system exclusively for military and law enforcement. That's system is still part of the Judo PAL program. The purpose of creating that program was to seperate training modalities. Greco-Roman wrestling, Pankration, and Judo are the superior training pedogy for military and law enforcement. None of you want to be on your back in full kit. You aren't going be better shooters with damaged fingers from gi training. BJJ is okay if you have a desk job, but it isn't going to maintain force lethality.
I am in LE for 22 years and BJJ/ Gracie Jiu Jitsu served me well so far on duty when the shit hit the fan! You don’t have to play from your back and use Grips on the Gi. It depends on the approach. My Coach always says Jiu Jitsu is the art of control and when you train Clinch, takedowns and heavy top game a lot, this absolutely fits for LEOs. Also Context is key…. Who says you have to play inverted double sleeve on duty or the pavement arena….but that’s off topic. Just wanted to give my thoughts on your posting.
Edited 3 year(s) ago
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Jigaro Kano created a system exclusively for military and law enforcement. That's system is still part of the Judo PAL program. The purpose of creating that program was to seperate training modalities. Greco-Roman wrestling, Pankration, and Judo are the superior training pedogy for military and law enforcement. None of you want to be on your back in full kit. You aren't going be better shooters with damaged fingers from gi training. BJJ is okay if you have a desk job, but it isn't going to maintain force lethality.
I had read he created a system that was safe to train at speed and was designed to be taught within the school system
Black beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
What I have loved about a (good) martial arts gym is that there are people from all walks of life... ex-criminals, cops... and unless you spend a long time there with them and get to know them on a more personal level (like going out for a drink every once in a while), you have no clue who does what outside the gym. You just know what they bring on the mat. So refreshing.
I literally have many BJJ friends who I've known for about 10 years, I shoot shit with them every week, but I have no idea what they do for a living, let alone their political leanings, religion etc. Love it!
I literally have many BJJ friends who I've known for about 10 years, I shoot shit with them every week, but I have no idea what they do for a living, let alone their political leanings, religion etc. Love it!
Edited 3 year(s) ago
Brown beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I turtle up and just sit there the whole round for everyone, regardless of who they are. Equal treatment for everyone.
Purple beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I literally have many BJJ friends who I've known for about 10 years, I shoot shit with them every week, but I have no idea what they do for a living, let alone their political leanings, religion etc. Love it!
I trained with a guy for 15-yrs and the coach always made fun of him for being a stay-at-home dad. It wasn't until I mentioned something about kids that he told me he didn't have any. He just had a sugar momma and didn't have to work. He came to day class so I just assumed the kids were at school and that gave him time to train.
Black beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I trained with a guy for 15-yrs and the coach always made fun of him for being a stay-at-home dad. It wasn't until I mentioned something about kids that he told me he didn't have any. He just had a sugar momma and didn't have to work. He came to day class so I just assumed the kids were at school and that gave him time to train.
I want this guy’s life
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
What I have loved about a (good) martial arts gym is that there are people from all walks of life... ex-criminals, cops... and unless you spend a long time there with them and get to know them on a more personal level (like going out for a drink every once in a while), you have no clue who does what outside the gym. You just know what they bring on the mat. So refreshing. I literally have many BJJ friends who I've known for about 10 years, I shoot shit with them every week, but I have no idea what they do for a living, let alone their political leanings, religion etc. Love it!
One of my favorite aspects of jiu-jitsu as well. I train with people from all walks of life and we are all in this to make each other better and improve our performance and lives.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I just ran across this while on my trip here in Washington D.C. Weird. "No cops and no kids" right on their website. It was the closest gym to my hotel, too.
Noel MinOP
Brown beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I just ran across this while on my trip here in Washington D.C. Weird. 'No cops and no kids' right on their website. It was the closest gym to my hotel, too.
Yup! We are talking about the same gym. Did you get a chance to train while you were there? If so which Academy?
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I didn't this time. I'm surprised that a gym like that works in D.C. Portland wouldn't surprise me, but D.C?
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I’ll second that. One passage from my liability release reads, “I have not been convicted of a violent crime, I am not currently under investigation or facing criminal prosecution for any violent crime, nor am I facing civil litigation for any acts of violence.”
I have a similar code of conduct for my program - no violent crimes, no sex offences, no DV - the DV one gets the most pushback but the reasoning behind it tends to be victim blaming. IMO, training doesn't build character, it reveals it, and I don't want to teach a person who has hurt other people how to hurt them better. I am willing to consider individuals on a case by case basis - like participate in treatment, demonstrate an ability to maintain their sobriety, make amends, etc.
To the OP's point, I think people want to train in an environment where they feel safe, and that's going to come in a lot of different flavors - be it women only or women-centered programs, LEO classes, military/veteran programs, or intersectional programs for BIPOC. It's awesome that jiu-jitsu has grown to a point that in many communities you have your choice of training locations so you can pick what works best for you.
To the OP's point, I think people want to train in an environment where they feel safe, and that's going to come in a lot of different flavors - be it women only or women-centered programs, LEO classes, military/veteran programs, or intersectional programs for BIPOC. It's awesome that jiu-jitsu has grown to a point that in many communities you have your choice of training locations so you can pick what works best for you.
Black belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Excluding anybody sounds dumb to me. If the issue is gym members smoking weed in the facilities, I don't believe off-duty LEOs would care.


