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Sandbagging no degree BB:s on Beltchecker promoting others to BB
3 year(s) ago • 12362 views • 84 replies
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Why is it so sensitive to some with disputes, on a website that is explicitly about checking belts, that they feel the need to write profanities to someone who points out that their instructor hasn't added his current degree?
Above 2:nd degree BB, degree doesn't really matter for any practical purposes (outside of that provisional belt IBJJF BS, where 3:rd has that silly new perk). But for us believing we should uphold the standard of only 2:nd degree BB:s or higher promoting anyone to BB, it is a bit problematic with sandbagging BB:s who on Beltchecker only claim a no degree BB but still has promoted other BB:s on Beltchecker.
I want to see "the promotion history, the whole promotion history and nothing but the promotion history" (as in no judo or japanese JJ belts) to consider it correct. Sure you can keep away from getting new degrees even if you have the time served and that's fine (been there, done that), but once you put on your stripes and/or promote someone else to BB, you either have a promotion history ending at no degree BB which is incorrect when it comes to completeness and being up to date or you are actually promoting your students without having a 2:nd degree BB, in which case their degrees might not be universally recognized in the BJJ community.
I would personally be very concerned if my own students felt the need to defend any hint of criticism of me as if I was some kind of holy religious figure who couldn't speak for myself - if you feel that need, you really should speak directly to your instructor before lashing out in public. Everyone should benefit from straightening these issues out really, so I hope to see a bit more tolerance in the future for those with other standards than our own and let's all help to keep discussions civilized here.
Above 2:nd degree BB, degree doesn't really matter for any practical purposes (outside of that provisional belt IBJJF BS, where 3:rd has that silly new perk). But for us believing we should uphold the standard of only 2:nd degree BB:s or higher promoting anyone to BB, it is a bit problematic with sandbagging BB:s who on Beltchecker only claim a no degree BB but still has promoted other BB:s on Beltchecker.
I want to see "the promotion history, the whole promotion history and nothing but the promotion history" (as in no judo or japanese JJ belts) to consider it correct. Sure you can keep away from getting new degrees even if you have the time served and that's fine (been there, done that), but once you put on your stripes and/or promote someone else to BB, you either have a promotion history ending at no degree BB which is incorrect when it comes to completeness and being up to date or you are actually promoting your students without having a 2:nd degree BB, in which case their degrees might not be universally recognized in the BJJ community.
I would personally be very concerned if my own students felt the need to defend any hint of criticism of me as if I was some kind of holy religious figure who couldn't speak for myself - if you feel that need, you really should speak directly to your instructor before lashing out in public. Everyone should benefit from straightening these issues out really, so I hope to see a bit more tolerance in the future for those with other standards than our own and let's all help to keep discussions civilized here.
SEBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
In this case I totally agree with Johan.
I don‘ t understand the whole aggression behind.
Nobody wanted to discuss about abilities or legitimation of anybody.
It is all about how this platform works (and how it is probably going to be wrong).
And even if anybody would have wanted to discuss about the legitimation of a „legend“:
the answer should always be arguments, facts and figures.
I don‘ t understand the whole aggression behind.
Nobody wanted to discuss about abilities or legitimation of anybody.
It is all about how this platform works (and how it is probably going to be wrong).
And even if anybody would have wanted to discuss about the legitimation of a „legend“:
the answer should always be arguments, facts and figures.
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Johan do you dispute that he received his Black Belt 18 year(s) 4 month(s) 8 day(s) ago as his profile states?
Time in grade is self evident the guy has been a black longer than many Black belts are training the fact that he is a second degree is pretty much self evident.
I am sorry but if you don't like it don't vote or send him a quick message but a dispute deducting points from his profile?
I understand you are the rank police and trying to tighten things up but damn this one is a little crazy
Time in grade is self evident the guy has been a black longer than many Black belts are training the fact that he is a second degree is pretty much self evident.
I am sorry but if you don't like it don't vote or send him a quick message but a dispute deducting points from his profile?
I understand you are the rank police and trying to tighten things up but damn this one is a little crazy
Edited 3 year(s) ago
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
No place on Beltchecker for the last reaction.
Discussions should be healthy and follow the Beltchecker rule of "Be nice"
Jonah perhaps you would be better served if you reached out to folks before wholesale disputing their ranks.
The "Be Nice" rule also applies in this regard.
Your initial statement, "Major sandbagging on the BB degrees!" can be taken as an attack as opposed to what I believe your intention really is. It goes both ways.
I am pretty sure Justin Bruckmann does not get on here enough to care about updating his profile.
Nothing wrong with that as people are busy and Beltchecker is not a priority to them.
Some discretion in your approach would probably have been received in a better light.
Discussions should be healthy and follow the Beltchecker rule of "Be nice"
Jonah perhaps you would be better served if you reached out to folks before wholesale disputing their ranks.
The "Be Nice" rule also applies in this regard.
Your initial statement, "Major sandbagging on the BB degrees!" can be taken as an attack as opposed to what I believe your intention really is. It goes both ways.
I am pretty sure Justin Bruckmann does not get on here enough to care about updating his profile.
Nothing wrong with that as people are busy and Beltchecker is not a priority to them.
Some discretion in your approach would probably have been received in a better light.
SEBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Well, as I understood is the point not to dispute someones BB.
It is about the missing of further ranks in a profile (which are obviously existing) and the consequences for beltcheckers voting-system.
It is about a lack of respect for the rules and the basic functions of this project.
It is not an easy situation, because on one hand we are lucky to welcome some really legends of BJJ here and on the other hand it doesn‘ t work properly, when these guys don‘ t have to follow the same rules for their profiles than the rest of the community.
It is about the missing of further ranks in a profile (which are obviously existing) and the consequences for beltcheckers voting-system.
It is about a lack of respect for the rules and the basic functions of this project.
It is not an easy situation, because on one hand we are lucky to welcome some really legends of BJJ here and on the other hand it doesn‘ t work properly, when these guys don‘ t have to follow the same rules for their profiles than the rest of the community.
JJohanOP
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
the fact that he is a second degree is pretty much self evident
If it's self evident, it's also self evident that the promotion history is not correct when it comes to completeness and being up to date, wouldn't you agree?
There's a lot of other BJJ communities and forums online if you don't think it's nice to get your belt checked. I surely hope no one has been forced to have their belt checked by having a profile on Beltchecker - if so, I'm sure the administrators can find a solution if it's brought to their attention.
I actually don't think a Sylvio Behring 4:th(?) degree BB would be much of a snowflake about having their points deduced to 2715 by someone who explicitly points out that he should display a HIGHER degree. He has held a low profile, unlike his brown and black belt students telling me "you look rediculous", to go f*** myself and another one writing "Fuck yes!" about the "go f*** yourself!". With students like that, you have other things to feel embarassed about than a "rank police" from the other side of the planet having the audacity of disputing the accurateness of a promotion history not including your actual degree.
There's a lot of other BJJ communities and forums online if you don't think it's nice to get your belt checked. I surely hope no one has been forced to have their belt checked by having a profile on Beltchecker - if so, I'm sure the administrators can find a solution if it's brought to their attention.
I actually don't think a Sylvio Behring 4:th(?) degree BB would be much of a snowflake about having their points deduced to 2715 by someone who explicitly points out that he should display a HIGHER degree. He has held a low profile, unlike his brown and black belt students telling me "you look rediculous", to go f*** myself and another one writing "Fuck yes!" about the "go f*** yourself!". With students like that, you have other things to feel embarassed about than a "rank police" from the other side of the planet having the audacity of disputing the accurateness of a promotion history not including your actual degree.
JGBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
You are the one calling pur professor a sandbagger with little and I'll go as far as betting no research into him.
As far as us having no place hear. I can't speak to that. Adio is great martial artist. A fantastic instructor l, professor and competitor. He's also one of the most intelligent level headed people I've ever met.
If writes a snap comment likt that. It's for a reason. If you think its unreasonable. We feel the same about your contention with our professor. The difference being we know what his done and who he is. Which easily found. Did you do any research into him before you contested him?
As far as us having no place hear. I can't speak to that. Adio is great martial artist. A fantastic instructor l, professor and competitor. He's also one of the most intelligent level headed people I've ever met.
If writes a snap comment likt that. It's for a reason. If you think its unreasonable. We feel the same about your contention with our professor. The difference being we know what his done and who he is. Which easily found. Did you do any research into him before you contested him?
JGBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
If it's self evident, it's also self evident that the promotion history is not correct when it comes to completeness and being up to date, wouldn't you agree? There's a lot of other BJJ communities and forums online if you don't think it's nice to get your belt checked. I surely hope no one has been forced to have their belt checked by having a profile on Beltchecker - if so, I'm sure the administrators can find a solution if it's brought to their attention. I actually don't think a Sylvio Behring 4:th(?) degree BB would be much of a snowflake about having their points deduced to 2715 by someone who explicitly points out that he should display a HIGHER degree. He has held a low profile, unlike his brown and black belt students telling me 'you look rediculous', to go f*** myself and another one writing 'Fuck yes!' about the 'go f*** yourself!'. With students like that, you have other things to feel embarassed about than a 'rank police' from the other side of the planet having the audacity of disputing the accurateness of a promotion history not including your actual degree.
We are fiercely protective of our professors and anyone else in the rebel alliance club line.
Those people have done more us then anyone. Especially some stranger half way across the world. If you can understand that. You can understand the replies. If you can't. You can't.
Those people have done more us then anyone. Especially some stranger half way across the world. If you can understand that. You can understand the replies. If you can't. You can't.
SEBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Keep calm. Stay humble. Be nice.
I am sure that Johan did not want to offend Your instructor.
But, to be honest, it is not the job of beltcheckers to investigate someones background.
It is always the job of everyone joining this community to provide the information on his profile.
Even it is the ghost of Maeda himself.
It is all about respect.
Maybe Johans downvote was understood in a disrespectful way. O.k.. But there is always a way to point that out in a respectful way.
-There is no damn reason in my BJJ-world which is big enough to allow such comments like happended here.
I am happy that we are all joining the beltchecker project.
Please calm down everybody and let us do our business and talk about legitimations and verify profiles etc..
I am sure that Johan did not want to offend Your instructor.
But, to be honest, it is not the job of beltcheckers to investigate someones background.
It is always the job of everyone joining this community to provide the information on his profile.
Even it is the ghost of Maeda himself.
It is all about respect.
Maybe Johans downvote was understood in a disrespectful way. O.k.. But there is always a way to point that out in a respectful way.
-There is no damn reason in my BJJ-world which is big enough to allow such comments like happended here.
I am happy that we are all joining the beltchecker project.
Please calm down everybody and let us do our business and talk about legitimations and verify profiles etc..
JJohanOP
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
You are the one calling pur professor a sandbagger with little and I'll go as far as betting no research into him.
Just so we're on the same page here, do you know what a sandbagger is? In the case of degrees on your BB, you obviously don't gain any advantages by "sandbagging", but perhaps the tongue-in-cheek was lost in translation. In any case, it is the opposite of an insult in this case and yes, I did my research and that is why I know he should be a higher degree BB, which is why I consider his current promotion history inaccurate.
If I actually believed his promotion history was accurate in completeness, because I hadn't done any research, then I would dispute the degrees of the BB:s promoted by him. Which I don't - not even ones publicly stating that they agree that I should go f*** myself.
If I actually believed his promotion history was accurate in completeness, because I hadn't done any research, then I would dispute the degrees of the BB:s promoted by him. Which I don't - not even ones publicly stating that they agree that I should go f*** myself.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Let's get one thing straight here: Is Justin a zero degree black belt or not?
(aka is his profile correct or not)
(aka is his profile correct or not)
JJohanOP
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
We are fiercely protective of our professors and anyone else in the rebel alliance club line.
It's a BJJ academy, not Hells Angels! ;-P
Yes, I'm exaggerating, but you should not least be protective of the academy and each other by upholding a level of class and dignity. Who knows, maybe we misunderstood each other here, but then let's go to the bottom of it. Perhaps ending with agreeing to disagree on some issues, but with mutual respect and understanding.
I wish I could say "That is the traditional Brazilian way of the founders!", but we know that isn't true ;-P
Yes, I'm exaggerating, but you should not least be protective of the academy and each other by upholding a level of class and dignity. Who knows, maybe we misunderstood each other here, but then let's go to the bottom of it. Perhaps ending with agreeing to disagree on some issues, but with mutual respect and understanding.
I wish I could say "That is the traditional Brazilian way of the founders!", but we know that isn't true ;-P
ARBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Sandbagging or he doesn't give a fuck about BC? If you know him, you'll know which one of those 2 options is the correct answer.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Sandbagging or he doesn't give a fuck about BC? If you know him, you'll know which one of those 2 options is the correct answer.
Why even have a profile on Beltchecker (literally made with the purpose of checking belts) if you don't give a fuck about it? I'm confused.
ARBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Fair enough. Seeing as how he hadn't logged in for over 2 years until today, I'm sure he couldn't care less if it's there or not.
JGBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
It's a BJJ academy, not Hells Angels! ;-P Yes, I'm exaggerating, but you should not least be protective of the academy and each other by upholding a level of class and dignity. Who knows, maybe we misunderstood each other here, but then let's go to the bottom of it. Perhaps ending with agreeing to disagree on some issues, but with mutual respect and understanding. I wish I could say 'That is the traditional Brazilian way of the founders!', but we know that isn't true ;-P
You're probably right as far as us misunderstanding eachother. Your hells angels comment. Well. I wouldn't compare us to them. We are a hell of a lot closer to our teammates then they are. A big chunk of us have been together 10, 15 and some 20 years.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
You're probably right as far as us misunderstanding eachother. Your hells angels comment. Well. I wouldn't compare us to them. We are a hell of a lot closer to our teammates then they are. A big chunk of us have been together 10, 15 and some 20 years.
So sounds like you might be the right person to answer my question above? Is he in fact a zero degree black belt like his profile shows? (I genuinely don't know)
Edited 3 year(s) ago
SEBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
That is the point, Anthony.☝🏼
I am o.k. with giving a fuck on BC.
But if You join this project it is a matter of respect to all of us here not to show giving a fuck.
Nevertheless: I am sure, Justin himself would be easy with the discussion by taking notice.😏
If we are lucky, he will. 😉
I am o.k. with giving a fuck on BC.
But if You join this project it is a matter of respect to all of us here not to show giving a fuck.
Nevertheless: I am sure, Justin himself would be easy with the discussion by taking notice.😏
If we are lucky, he will. 😉
ARBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
So sounds like you might be the right person to answer my question above? Is he in fact a zero degree black belt like his profile shows? (I genuinely don't know)
4th
ARBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
One might also ask, why bother adding bb degrees on beltchecker if you won't wear them on your belt? :)
JJohanOP
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
One might also ask, why bother adding bb degrees on beltchecker if you won't wear them on your belt? :)
Pic in this thread shows you must be speaking about someone other than me :-)
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]amp;page=1
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]amp;page=1
ARBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Pic in this thread shows you must be speaking about someone other than me :-) https://www.beltchecker.c[...]amp;page=1
Hey, you got it correct!
SEBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Well, frankly said:
it would be o.k. for me, not wearing stripes but in fact beeing ranked as a higher degree.
I would never wear a white and red belt in „Nihon JJ“ (whatever that is, I do not want a discussion about…☝🏼) by myself for example (actual ranked as a 5th degree and maybe never awarded a 6th cause everybody knows…😂).
it would be o.k. for me, not wearing stripes but in fact beeing ranked as a higher degree.
I would never wear a white and red belt in „Nihon JJ“ (whatever that is, I do not want a discussion about…☝🏼) by myself for example (actual ranked as a 5th degree and maybe never awarded a 6th cause everybody knows…😂).
Edited 3 year(s) ago
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
4th
Ok, so his Beltchecker profile is indeed showing the wrong rank. Incorrect profiles are being pointed out on Beltchecker all the time; checking belts is kind of the point here. So what's the problem again? 🙂
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
One might also ask, why bother adding bb degrees on beltchecker if you won't wear them on your belt? :)
I only add them here so I can have more power on Beltchecker 🤷🏼♂️
ARBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Ok, so his Beltchecker profile is indeed showing the wrong rank. Incorrect profiles are being pointed out on Beltchecker all the time; checking belts is kind of the point here. So what's the problem again? 🙂
By that logic, should we then dispute the ranks of people who don't update their belts for the stripes they receive? A black belt is a black belt (in rank, not necessarily in skill).
JJohanOP
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
So what's the problem again?
I think the main problem is disputes are by many currently not regarded "Be nice" enough. So maybe, an alternative "Dispute, with cherry on top" option could be added as a middle ground, with the cherry just slowly fading away to give some time for everyone connected to the profile owner to find constructive coping strategies to go on with their lives =D
Or perhaps we just need to help shape a site culture where a constructive dispute isn't seen as an insult and attack. Frankly speaking, I think we need more people who dare to dispute even if it sometimes causes some friction. Depending on if we want a Beltchecker verification to be worth as much or more than an IBJJF certification, to long term be able to challenge their dominance and perhaps start democratizing the BJJ scene, or if we just want free pats on the back for all without questioning with a forum at the side.
Or perhaps we just need to help shape a site culture where a constructive dispute isn't seen as an insult and attack. Frankly speaking, I think we need more people who dare to dispute even if it sometimes causes some friction. Depending on if we want a Beltchecker verification to be worth as much or more than an IBJJF certification, to long term be able to challenge their dominance and perhaps start democratizing the BJJ scene, or if we just want free pats on the back for all without questioning with a forum at the side.
ARBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I think the main problem is disputes are by many currently not regarded 'Be nice' enough. So maybe, an alternative 'Dispute, with cherry on top' option could be added as a middle ground, with the cherry just slowly fading away to give some time for everyone connected to the profile owner to find constructive coping strategies to go on with their lives =D Or perhaps we just need to help shape a site culture where a constructive dispute isn't seen as an insult and attack. Frankly speaking, I think we need more people who dare to dispute even if it sometimes causes some friction. Depending on if we want a Beltchecker verification to be worth as much or more than an IBJJF certification, to long term be able to challenge their dominance and perhaps start democratizing the BJJ scene, or if we just want free pats on the back for all without questioning with a forum at the side.
So I don't know you or whoever promoted you. So I'm not convinced then?
ARBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Ok, that's enough "fun". I'm out.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
By that logic, should we then dispute the ranks of people who don't update their belts for the stripes they receive? A black belt is a black belt (in rank, not necessarily in skill).
As you know, people can verify or dispute by any criteria they see fit 🙂
Personally I think a black belt profile should show the correct degrees. But some might disagree and that's perfectly fine. My opinion only matters 1/28,733 here.
Personally I think a black belt profile should show the correct degrees. But some might disagree and that's perfectly fine. My opinion only matters 1/28,733 here.
