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Revenge downvotes cast - you know what to do
3 year(s) ago • 37319 views • 284 replies
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I didnt realize I needed more proof than was initially asked for. I found the 'down vote' really disrespectful as I think anyone would. Still, I guess its good dialogue to have
You don't, technically "need" much of anything, but there are those out there who will downvote for whatever reason. It's their right to do so.
I wouldn't take it as a sign of disrespect though, I don't think that's the intent.
Definitely a good dialogue to have.
I wouldn't take it as a sign of disrespect though, I don't think that's the intent.
Definitely a good dialogue to have.
JJohanOP
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Well, its a silly way of 'asking'.
Your not very friendly reply on my wall was not to my dispute (which hadn't been made then) but to the way of asking without disputing, which I started off with as a courtesy.
I actually think an ongoing problem with Beltchecker is very different expectations and attempts to set a culture or establish generally accepted ways of asking for further evidence or clarifications won't reach more than a few members and not at all new members. Difficult to say how we could make that more aligned.
I actually think an ongoing problem with Beltchecker is very different expectations and attempts to set a culture or establish generally accepted ways of asking for further evidence or clarifications won't reach more than a few members and not at all new members. Difficult to say how we could make that more aligned.
JJBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
I challenge Johan to a Kumite on the rock of trolltunga.
JJohanOP
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Its pretty easy to find out frauds in the BJJ community
Not always easy and not always black or white. We had a senior black belt on Beltchecker some time ago where my questioning and rigour actually revealed that he had been promoted to black belt by a person falsely posing as a Carlson Gracie black belt. He might very well have been in good faith about it and later got degrees on his black belt by a very legit black belt. That's the kind of things I hope Beltchecker can clear up in the future as well. We'll probably see more than a hundred legit black belts getting critical questions and being asked to provide further evidence for every fake black belt or with very large discrepancies in their promotion history. I'd say that's the cost of mantaining the integrity of the belts and the sport, so let's not take it as personal criticism but as routine to get through!
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
A few posts with name-calling have been deleted. Please speak nicely in this forum, regardless of your feelings, thanks 🙂
Edited 3 year(s) ago
ANBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
It has to happen, one Day or another.... I think our beltchecker shérif need hollydays....
holiday is good. in America we just cancel the police apparently
ANBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Haha Now, you want to be 'civilized'? No, you wanted to be the 'BJJ POLICE'. If you did in fact start in 1999, then you would know how disrespectful you saying anything is. My first instructor would have punched you in the face for a slight like that. Ive been doing BJJ since 1998. Ive trained with the best guys in the world, have had the opportunity to do seminars all over the world and as stated above, fought in the UFC. Im sure I have pictures of me getting my promotions, but having a 5th degree black belt confirm should be all I need to do. More than enough people have Confirmed me. Until Johan posted on my wall, I havent even been on this site. Being defensive is also a sign of feeling disrespected, especially when its easily verified.
as someone who knows Ralph Gracie's style. the punch in the face would have certainly happened, I concur haha.
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Jonah, seriously?
I just saw you down voted someone because you felt his down vote on your page was revenge. So down voting out of revenge or spite is bad but it's ok for you to do it.
You can't have it both ways you say you are about integrity, honor etc but you don't hold yourself to the same standard.
To make a point your 1st and second degree are questionable by your own standards and EVERYONE on this site should down vote you by your own criteria. I am actually really disappointed because I actually believed your where coming from a well meaning place. After seeing this and examining your profile I am forced to question my initial impression
I just saw you down voted someone because you felt his down vote on your page was revenge. So down voting out of revenge or spite is bad but it's ok for you to do it.
You can't have it both ways you say you are about integrity, honor etc but you don't hold yourself to the same standard.
To make a point your 1st and second degree are questionable by your own standards and EVERYONE on this site should down vote you by your own criteria. I am actually really disappointed because I actually believed your where coming from a well meaning place. After seeing this and examining your profile I am forced to question my initial impression
GRBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
as someone who knows Ralph Gracie's style. the punch in the face would have certainly happened, I concur haha.
Ralph would 100% punch this guy
JJBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
My last post got deleted somehow so reposting it.
I don't care if you downvote someone that hasn't linked any social media and there is no easy way to verify on the website itself without spending over 10 minutes checking.
But when someone has clearly linked their social medias and you can easily check them within a couple minutes or their coach verified the promotion there is no reason to downvote that person simply because they haven't made time to make the perfect profile that you desire.
Also Johan I want a no time limit match. If I win you got to give me a Brown Belt with 4 stripes and sign it with a sharpie in front of me. If you win I will recognize you as the Beltchecker Police. I will even create you a custom certificate and everything. I will also rename all the lands I have conquered in Crusader Kings 3 to Johanesville in your honor.
I don't care if you downvote someone that hasn't linked any social media and there is no easy way to verify on the website itself without spending over 10 minutes checking.
But when someone has clearly linked their social medias and you can easily check them within a couple minutes or their coach verified the promotion there is no reason to downvote that person simply because they haven't made time to make the perfect profile that you desire.
Also Johan I want a no time limit match. If I win you got to give me a Brown Belt with 4 stripes and sign it with a sharpie in front of me. If you win I will recognize you as the Beltchecker Police. I will even create you a custom certificate and everything. I will also rename all the lands I have conquered in Crusader Kings 3 to Johanesville in your honor.
Edited 3 year(s) ago
DKBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Listen,
I get what Johan is trying to accomplish here with his policing habits. He is trying to set an unprecedent standard here. Some argue this site is a social experiment, but it cannot be an experiment without some form of testing of the parameters. Of course, there is no set parameters, guidelines, or standards and thus the experiment definition needs to be in the forefront of everyone's mind when we get our feelings hurt.
I believe Johan's ethos is derived from good intentions.
I also believe he might have slightly over shot his mark on this one.
Two things can be true at the same time.
I think we need to settle down and regroup.
I get what Johan is trying to accomplish here with his policing habits. He is trying to set an unprecedent standard here. Some argue this site is a social experiment, but it cannot be an experiment without some form of testing of the parameters. Of course, there is no set parameters, guidelines, or standards and thus the experiment definition needs to be in the forefront of everyone's mind when we get our feelings hurt.
I believe Johan's ethos is derived from good intentions.
I also believe he might have slightly over shot his mark on this one.
Two things can be true at the same time.
I think we need to settle down and regroup.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Ralph would 100% punch this guy
Some people run out of communication skills faster than others
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Some people run out of communication skills faster than others
But that is Ralph's first line of communication. The speaking comes after the punching
TRBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
But that is Ralph's first line of communication. The speaking comes after the punching
That's pretty sad if you think about it.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Jonah is Jonah
I like Jonah, and I could easily train, hangout, have a beer and a meal with him.
I am sure it would be a great time.
Can't be mad at him for doing what he does.
Take it with a grain of salt.
Jonah is not the hero we asked for, he is the one we needed.
Don't take it personally as he definitely does not mean it that way.
I like Jonah, and I could easily train, hangout, have a beer and a meal with him.
I am sure it would be a great time.
Can't be mad at him for doing what he does.
Take it with a grain of salt.
Jonah is not the hero we asked for, he is the one we needed.
Don't take it personally as he definitely does not mean it that way.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
And soon there will be a 'downvoter' patch awarded by the looks of things escalating so fast. Just waiting for R. David Gonzalez to perform magic with his photo editing tools...
Shitty quality but I tried
JJBlack beltVerified
TRBlack beltVerified
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
TRBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Fixed your picture.
There is a hint of that playground mindset in your thought. "My daddy is stronger than yours" and so on...
BZBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Is it really interesting to still use the down vote ? We saw that sometimes people receive downvote but still get verified because they got a name or community behind them. It's also use by some people to get attention, then as a revenge....i think that it would be better to stop using it and replace that by a flag or something like that, if you find a fraud. Also the fact that virtualy, if you're a fraud but you get enough points you're verified, even if you were exposed, if the people who vote for you didn't came often on beltchecker, you may still been verified.... it's a non-sense...
If it is a social exp. Then it might evolve, to become a better version.
If it is a social exp. Then it might evolve, to become a better version.
GRBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Jonah is Jonah I like Jonah, and I could easily train, hangout, have a beer and a meal with him. I am sure it would be a great time. Can't be mad at him for doing what he does. Take it with a grain of salt. Jonah is not the hero we asked for, he is the one we needed. Don't take it personally as he definitely does not mean it that way.
I do NOT like Jonah and the only part that I would like to do with him is training....in MMA....with no time limit.
He is NO hero and the fact that he justifies his "crusade" because he caught one bad actor is just silly. He found POWER in that moment and now that seems to be his " calling". Being a D bag in any community is a poor decision imo and how can one NOT take it personally? :-"dont worry about it, he ACCUSES EVERYONE of being fake. Just go with it". No, I will not allow poor behavior to keep on because "thats just him being him". Would you allow a creepy old man to grab your childs butt because "thats just him being him"?
He is NO hero and the fact that he justifies his "crusade" because he caught one bad actor is just silly. He found POWER in that moment and now that seems to be his " calling". Being a D bag in any community is a poor decision imo and how can one NOT take it personally? :-"dont worry about it, he ACCUSES EVERYONE of being fake. Just go with it". No, I will not allow poor behavior to keep on because "thats just him being him". Would you allow a creepy old man to grab your childs butt because "thats just him being him"?
JJohanOP
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Jonah, seriously? I just saw you down voted someone because you felt his down vote on your page was revenge. So down voting out of revenge or spite is bad but it's ok for you to do it. You can't have it both ways you say you are about integrity, honor etc but you don't hold yourself to the same standard. To make a point your 1st and second degree are questionable by your own standards and EVERYONE on this site should down vote you by your own criteria. I am actually really disappointed because I actually believed your where coming from a well meaning place. After seeing this and examining your profile I am forced to question my initial impression
Still not the whale guy :-) I'll split this up:
First regarding revenge voting: It has been known since day one here that revenge voting could occur in the future although luckily, I don't think we've seen it until now. I've never downvoted someone for the way they honestly and consistently set their standards for voting either way. E.g. Anthony Restuccia is probably most extreme in upvoting everything that moves, with a "there appears to be enough evidence to verify rank", but even though I don't agree with his way of voting, he has solid evidence of his promotions and thus got my upvote. It would be total mayhem if downvoting those whose votes you don't agree with became common practice and Beltchecker couldn' really be used as a beltchecker anymore. So that's one of very few red lines I have, that I (no matter their evidence) will downvote revenge voters, as that is the only mechanism available on Beltchecker to nullify the phenomenon and I would hope that others would agree on that one and help prevent a revenge vote culture to arise in the same way. Basically, I don't think revenge voters should hold any vote power. And no, the irony of handling that by downvoting them is not lost on me. I just don't see any other solution, especially if the phenomenon becomes more common, which it might if it's a free for all to revenge vote.
Second, regarding my own evidence, I've been very clear on that I regard the promotion from brown to black as the most important to provide evidence for. I don't think I've ever downvoted anyone who has claimed later degrees (with the correct time from the black belt promotion) from the same instructor that they have good evidence that gave them their black belt. Especially if they have evidence showing that they already have had a connection with that very instructor for decades. Just as I often verify even black belt promotions with evidence not quite up to my usual standards, but where they have really good evidence for their previous belts and it's obvious that they have a long an ongoing relation to the same instructor.
I might however have downvoted at some time if someone has very good evidence for the initial black belt but no evidence what so ever of the connection to the instructor who they claim gave them later degrees, especially if that instructor is very well known and might thus more often be favoured in false claims. Even if I would have upvoted a straight time-served-promotion, without an attached name. However, I think I've softened quite a bit and most often just don't vote in those cases, unless there is something that awakens suspicions.
To summarise, I would pass my own evidence criteria, present and past. I would however be totally fine with if someone downvoted me because of e.g. lack of photos from the actual blue belt promotion in the 90:s or lack of new evidence for the 1:st and 2:nd degree, as long as it is their honest and consistent criteria, which they not only pinpoint use with me as the target, as that would obviously only be an excuse for revenge voting, but really hand out hundreds of downvotes with the same criteria.
First regarding revenge voting: It has been known since day one here that revenge voting could occur in the future although luckily, I don't think we've seen it until now. I've never downvoted someone for the way they honestly and consistently set their standards for voting either way. E.g. Anthony Restuccia is probably most extreme in upvoting everything that moves, with a "there appears to be enough evidence to verify rank", but even though I don't agree with his way of voting, he has solid evidence of his promotions and thus got my upvote. It would be total mayhem if downvoting those whose votes you don't agree with became common practice and Beltchecker couldn' really be used as a beltchecker anymore. So that's one of very few red lines I have, that I (no matter their evidence) will downvote revenge voters, as that is the only mechanism available on Beltchecker to nullify the phenomenon and I would hope that others would agree on that one and help prevent a revenge vote culture to arise in the same way. Basically, I don't think revenge voters should hold any vote power. And no, the irony of handling that by downvoting them is not lost on me. I just don't see any other solution, especially if the phenomenon becomes more common, which it might if it's a free for all to revenge vote.
Second, regarding my own evidence, I've been very clear on that I regard the promotion from brown to black as the most important to provide evidence for. I don't think I've ever downvoted anyone who has claimed later degrees (with the correct time from the black belt promotion) from the same instructor that they have good evidence that gave them their black belt. Especially if they have evidence showing that they already have had a connection with that very instructor for decades. Just as I often verify even black belt promotions with evidence not quite up to my usual standards, but where they have really good evidence for their previous belts and it's obvious that they have a long an ongoing relation to the same instructor.
I might however have downvoted at some time if someone has very good evidence for the initial black belt but no evidence what so ever of the connection to the instructor who they claim gave them later degrees, especially if that instructor is very well known and might thus more often be favoured in false claims. Even if I would have upvoted a straight time-served-promotion, without an attached name. However, I think I've softened quite a bit and most often just don't vote in those cases, unless there is something that awakens suspicions.
To summarise, I would pass my own evidence criteria, present and past. I would however be totally fine with if someone downvoted me because of e.g. lack of photos from the actual blue belt promotion in the 90:s or lack of new evidence for the 1:st and 2:nd degree, as long as it is their honest and consistent criteria, which they not only pinpoint use with me as the target, as that would obviously only be an excuse for revenge voting, but really hand out hundreds of downvotes with the same criteria.
JJohanOP
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Fixed your picture.
I'm actually quite sure there's more than a couple of fouls in that picture. Top of head cut off, neck in an angle more weird than in the Exorcist as well as the whole head being shrunk, voodo style. However you manage to accomplish all that on a BJJ mat.
I'd verify you for coral belt in impressive Photoshop skills though! Although I'm missing Trolltunga (which btw is in Norway, not Sweden) :-)
I'd verify you for coral belt in impressive Photoshop skills though! Although I'm missing Trolltunga (which btw is in Norway, not Sweden) :-)
Edited 3 year(s) ago
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I do NOT like Jonah and the only part that I would like to do with him is training....in MMA....with no time limit.
I fail to see how that would accomplish anything.
Also I wouldn't compare what Jonah's doing to
grabbing a butt.
This site is called Beltchecker and some people take it too seriously. Jonah is one of those that take it seriously.
Lets face it, belts are silly anyway.
The only thing that matters is the promotion everyone got from their instructor(s).
People voting on a website is truly irrelevant.
Also I wouldn't compare what Jonah's doing to
grabbing a butt.
This site is called Beltchecker and some people take it too seriously. Jonah is one of those that take it seriously.
Lets face it, belts are silly anyway.
The only thing that matters is the promotion everyone got from their instructor(s).
People voting on a website is truly irrelevant.
TRBlack beltVerified
3 year(s) ago
Would you allow a creepy old man to grab your childs butt because "thats just him being him"?
I can feel your pain about Johan doing his thing, but comparing his belt checking crusade to a child molester might be a bit far fetched.
One would think that an ex UFC fighter wouldn't get so upset over a swedish guy who has a profile picture of a chinese guy wearing headgear...
One would think that an ex UFC fighter wouldn't get so upset over a swedish guy who has a profile picture of a chinese guy wearing headgear...
CBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
GRBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I fail to see how that would accomplish anything. Also I wouldn't compare what Jonah's doing to grabbing a butt. This site is called Beltchecker and some people take it too seriously. Jonah is one of those that take it seriously. Lets face it, belts are silly anyway. The only thing that matters is the promotion everyone got from their instructor(s). People voting on a website is truly irrelevant.
I would accomplish me enjoying testing my abilities and hopefully ensure that my belt wouldnt be questioned anymore =)
Its not the same thing, but allowing bad behavior because "thats just who they are" is the same.
Its not the same thing, but allowing bad behavior because "thats just who they are" is the same.
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
Ok so down voting is ok, if you feel the down voter revenge voted you?
I get it you want to uphold a "higher" standard. You do you why do you feel the need to rally people to your side?
You created a thread about Remco and now this.
As you have already said this is an isolated incident but remarkably it seems that it happened to you and when it did you felt the need to enlist support,
I can be a dick and an asshole but I own it
I get it you want to uphold a "higher" standard. You do you why do you feel the need to rally people to your side?
You created a thread about Remco and now this.
As you have already said this is an isolated incident but remarkably it seems that it happened to you and when it did you felt the need to enlist support,
I can be a dick and an asshole but I own it
ANBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
3 year(s) ago
I’ve invited Rener Gracie in here to say a few words, and offer us a discount on airplane sleeper hold pillows, to support the big ass heads in here.
