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Don't go too far, make the difference between beltcheking and harassing
2 year(s) ago • 23381 views • 53 replies
BZBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Hi guys and girls,
I make this tread to talk about something that made me sad and angry. I got notifications about this profile beeing downvoted with long comments :
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]hp?id=6097
When i saw those comments it appears that the downvoters will not reconized the Brown belt due to the promoter Black belt who are not legit for them. But the guy got a IBJJF licence as a Black belt, so he get his rank reconized...even if you're not happy about it, it's a fact...so why do they continue ? I know that the main purpose of this site is beltcheking, but i feel that some people take it too seriously and start to cross the line...
Hi guys and girls,
I make this tread to talk about something that made me sad and angry. I got notifications about this profile beeing downvoted with long comments :
https://www.beltchecker.c[...]hp?id=6097
When i saw those comments it appears that the downvoters will not reconized the Brown belt due to the promoter Black belt who are not legit for them. But the guy got a IBJJF licence as a Black belt, so he get his rank reconized...even if you're not happy about it, it's a fact...so why do they continue ? I know that the main purpose of this site is beltcheking, but i feel that some people take it too seriously and start to cross the line...
DKBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
I am torn on this. I am going to watch from the side lines for the time being and see how this plays out.
I will say that checkmat has never been good at following the "wisdom" of ibjjf promotion time tables or rules. So it does not shock me that a first year black belt promoted a brown to black. I am curious as to why they seem to be ghosting Anthony, though.
I am sure she is legit, in regards to her skill level, but it does raise a brow as to why the comms are silent when seeking an inquiry.
I will say that checkmat has never been good at following the "wisdom" of ibjjf promotion time tables or rules. So it does not shock me that a first year black belt promoted a brown to black. I am curious as to why they seem to be ghosting Anthony, though.
I am sure she is legit, in regards to her skill level, but it does raise a brow as to why the comms are silent when seeking an inquiry.
JABlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
People should film their rolls and competitions more. It's so much easier to watch the level of competence when you see how big are the openings to which someone is able to capitalise on.
No certificates or group photos or promotion photos or videos come even close on credibility.
Would also make verifying more fun.
No certificates or group photos or promotion photos or videos come even close on credibility.
Would also make verifying more fun.
BZBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Well, I early voted in that case because everything was o.k. for me. After some rumours I did a research by myself and after some netsurfing and checking social media there came some weird things to the surface. The idea behind, was to find some evidence to bring this case to a good final. At the same time I was succesful with another case (Paul Frijters) and had the same motivation. I tried on a few different ways but was really absolute not able to find any evidence for the BB of promoting instructor. It was easy to find out that he was a succesful competitor. But the fast jump from purple belt over brown and finally to black is not valid. There are promotion pics with a 3rd degree who don‘t want to confirm the promotion and says he was a guest that evening in a foreign gym if You ask. The claimed instructor (Paulo C Elsimaani) don‘t answer to my simple question if he promoted Tim Carrico. -Simply nobody wants to confirm that promotion. And -I am sorry- a IBJJF-card has absolutely zero evidence in my eyes. A more researches I did, a more questions came up! I agree, that personal matters (like any relationships aside of instructor-student) should definitely not play any role on this platform. And I do not want to harass anyone. It is definitely o.k. for me to be flexible and accept special circumstances and work with exceptions. (Everybody can have a look at how many profiles I checked and voted for by the way…) But in this special case I came after really intensive researches to the conclusion, that this brown belt is the victim of a fraud. And I am sorry: if You legitimate that, You accept the fraud BB behind. It is the hard way to find another promoting instructor but this invalid lineage will implode at latest when claiming a BB in the future. By the way: with the shown base it should be easy to find another (legit) BB to promote in a short time!
I may understand what you say, and i follow you about finding fraud... but it is what it is but the IBJJF do reconized the guy as a Black belt, so someone at least 2 degree had to sign for him to get it. That was my point of view, if he get that rank reconized in ibjjf then he's legit to give a Brown belt.
We leave in a world were blue belt world champion can roll on hobbist Black belt, but still keep the blue. And others are "official" Black belt who maybe didn't deserved it so much...
I think that in this case the professor and her students won several medals so, at least they show that this isn't a MC dojo.
I think they should stay verified, but definitly the Brown belt should find another second or higher Black belt to receive a legit Black belt when it would br time. She show her lineage, made a good profile, and play the game of evidences to me, she didn't deserve to proove more for me.
We leave in a world were blue belt world champion can roll on hobbist Black belt, but still keep the blue. And others are "official" Black belt who maybe didn't deserved it so much...
I think that in this case the professor and her students won several medals so, at least they show that this isn't a MC dojo.
I think they should stay verified, but definitly the Brown belt should find another second or higher Black belt to receive a legit Black belt when it would br time. She show her lineage, made a good profile, and play the game of evidences to me, she didn't deserve to proove more for me.
ANBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I may understand what you say, and i follow you about finding fraud... but it is what it is but the IBJJF do reconized the guy as a Black belt, so someone at least 2 degree had to sign for him to get it. That was my point of view, if he get that rank reconized in ibjjf then he's legit to give a Brown belt. We leave in a world were blue belt world champion can roll on hobbist Black belt, but still keep the blue. And others are 'official' Black belt who maybe didn't deserved it so much... I think that in this case the professor and her students won several medals so, at least they show that this isn't a MC dojo. I think they should stay verified, but definitly the Brown belt should find another second or higher Black belt to receive a legit Black belt when it would br time. She show her lineage, made a good profile, and play the game of evidences to me, she didn't deserve to proove more for me.
I understand your perspective, and I also know it’s because you have not done the research that some of us have . And here lies the problem, no one in that affiliation will verify they even clicked the button for him on IBJJF. in fact, everyone we’ve talked to will not claim him, except one Blackbelt with no degrees. So I’m not even sure about the card. no one will take credit for pushing the button or promoting him. But I know exactly how the promotion went down because I spoke to some very good sources who were not only there, but personally involved .But it gets worse and there’s a lot more information that I cannot share on the forum. And Not share privately because of the people who spoke to me about it. If you do a little research and go to the previous school before this one, you will see where everything begins., you will find out why that school has banned both of them, and will not vouch for them. You will see how two students left the school, and tried to start their own thing, you will see how that was backed, you will see who refuses to acknowledge its legitimacy. You will start to see the whole story shape. And I promise you what you will find is a no degree Blackbelt, who promoted somebody Being financially invested, in order to make their school ripe for affiliation. But the affiliation not jumping on because it hasn’t been successful. And the affiliation not backing the promotion. However, the more publicity that this gets the more likelihood that they will have to at some point. They do the votes will be reversed. But I think you know as well as I do that just because you have a membership card does not mean you’re a Blackbelt. Anybody can push that button, and get you a card. Validation is somebody stepping up, saying that they did it. I will never trust a card. But I will always trust a Blackbelt that tells me he or she did it.
ANBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I am torn on this. I am going to watch from the side lines for the time being and see how this plays out. I will say that checkmat has never been good at following the 'wisdom' of ibjjf promotion time tables or rules. So it does not shock me that a first year black belt promoted a brown to black. I am curious as to why they seem to be ghosting Anthony, though. I am sure she is legit, in regards to her skill level, but it does raise a brow as to why the comms are silent when seeking an inquiry.
I have all the screenshots of the conversation. I was super cordial and professional. I was blocked by all the parties involved.. and I basically just asked who promoted him. I have also talked to Tim on the phone. And he would not be direct with the question. He just talked about his IBJJF card, and eventually slipped that Rob promoted him. no degree. I asked who backed that promotion and that’s when he talked about the card again. Shortly after he hung up and blocked me.
ANBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Hi guys and girls, I make this tread to talk about something that made me sad and angry. I got notifications about this profile beeing downvoted with long comments : https://www.beltchecker.c[...]hp?id=6097 When i saw those comments it appears that the downvoters will not reconized the Brown belt due to the promoter Black belt who are not legit for them. But the guy got a IBJJF licence as a Black belt, so he get his rank reconized...even if you're not happy about it, it's a fact...so why do they continue ? I know that the main purpose of this site is beltcheking, but i feel that some people take it too seriously and start to cross the line...
Benoit,
For the record, I deeply respect you. Especially since I lived in Belgium, and know your reputation. So if you think that I overstepped and I’m harassing, please let me know why and I will listen to what you have to say.
For the record, I deeply respect you. Especially since I lived in Belgium, and know your reputation. So if you think that I overstepped and I’m harassing, please let me know why and I will listen to what you have to say.
SEBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
People should film their rolls and competitions more. It's so much easier to watch the level of competence when you see how big are the openings to which someone is able to capitalise on. No certificates or group photos or promotion photos or videos come even close on credibility. Would also make verifying more fun.
That is a cool idea.🤙🏼
As an additional option to bring a verification on another level.
But there are some technical hurdles.
I would not hesitate to film myself during a technical rolling session and put it in public.🧐
But I don‘t want to register at youtube for example.
So there must be a simple upload-option implemented (and usable for technical idiots like me) on beltchecker first.☝🏼
Next step will be creating a cool avatar and let him roll AI -generated.🤡
Compared to the faked certificates of today that will be the fraud 2.0.😂
To be serious again:
It is another aspect which could help as an option to choose for us verifiers and could make the verifications maybe better.💁🏻♂️
As an additional option to bring a verification on another level.
But there are some technical hurdles.
I would not hesitate to film myself during a technical rolling session and put it in public.🧐
But I don‘t want to register at youtube for example.
So there must be a simple upload-option implemented (and usable for technical idiots like me) on beltchecker first.☝🏼
Next step will be creating a cool avatar and let him roll AI -generated.🤡
Compared to the faked certificates of today that will be the fraud 2.0.😂
To be serious again:
It is another aspect which could help as an option to choose for us verifiers and could make the verifications maybe better.💁🏻♂️
JABlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
That is a cool idea.🤙🏼 As an additional option to bring a verification on another level. But there are some technical hurdles. I would not hesitate to film myself during a technical rolling session and put it in public.🧐 But I don‘t want to register at youtube for example. So there must be a simple upload-option implemented (and usable for technical idiots like me) on beltchecker first.☝🏼 Next step will be creating a cool avatar and let him roll AI -generated.🤡 Compared to the faked certificates of today that will be the fraud 2.0.😂 To be serious again: It is another aspect which could help as an option to choose for us verifiers and could make the verifications maybe better.💁🏻♂️
I think saving videos on beltchecker would increase the cost of maintenance too high for a non-profit website, but most people have either YouTube, Facebook or Instagram available, where you can store videos for free.
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I'd say we're past the Tim track, as Valerie has now changed the story to Robert Hurd being the one who promoted her although not present, with Tim only acting as a proxy. In that case, Tim's degree doesn't matter and Rob is legit as far as I can tell. She hasn't provided evidence that Rob promoted her though, which I think is the profile owners job (at least to provide an official contact way to the promoting instructor together with info that he has ok:d that checkers verify directly with him).
Valerie has had seven months to get the Promotion history and evidence straight since I asked my first questions (some of which seems deleted from her Wall now, which has removed some of the context for the answers, some of which may also be gone). With misleading dead ends costing much time for those who have actually taken the time to try to confirm the validity of the information and not just given an upvote to be nice. So frustration in more thorough verifiers is fully understandable and could really have been avoided by getting the promotion history and evidence in order within a reasonable time frame.
What is not Valeries fault is that Checkmat's promotion routines seem like a mess. I've seen cases before, ranging from the promoting instructor (acting through proxy) never even having met the promoted (Beltchecker was thrown out of IBJJF for less) to apparent on-the-fly promotions by too low degree promoting instructors where there hasn't seemed to excist any prior arrangement who would act as the official promoting instructor behind the proxy officiant. It gives the impression that it's common practice within Checkmat to promote first and (in best case and with some trouble) arrange for someone actually legit to assume the role of promoting instructor at a later date, if someone starts asking questions or they want to register with IBJJF. At times while also being upset about being asked to clarify.
With IBJJF registrations (not just within Checkmat), it also seems as if many instructors just see it as a "signing off", without identifying as the actual promoting instructor (even if the one who was there physically to give the degree was not legit for doing the promotion). Leading to cases where there is a IBJJF registration of the degree but no one admits to having promoted the person if asked. Looking at the membership form (including a field for belt) v 3/5/14 from IBJJF, it actually leaves room for doing it like that, as it just says "Responsible person signature" and "Professor (IBJJF Certified)" and "Academy Head Instructor (IBJJF Certified)", not actually mentioning who did the promoting. Still, when IBJJF threw out Globetrotters, they wrote that "When professors sign for memberships of students who do not train under their guidance, such actions risk damaging the integrity of the sport, which goes against the values of IBJJF".
Even the IBJJF form for black belt certificate leaves room for later claiming that the signing instructor wasn't the person doing the promoting, as it just says "instructor's signature", although it's a bit pushing it as there is also a column for "instructor" where it should be filled out for each belt. But sure, you could claim that "I was the instructor during that time but I wasn't the one awarding the belt". With increasing occurrences of signing-off-instructors not admitting to be the promoting instructors, how much does a certificate or membership card from IBJJF really say when it comes to the legitimacy of your promotion or who promoted you? Which is why I think we as beltcheckers should really not just look at IBJJF status before verifying. Especially not when there are inconsistencies in the Promotion history which aren't quickly addressed when asked.
While I'm actually more liberal than IBJJF claim to be (but aren't) when it comes to e.g. a visiting head instructor promoting someone who they don't see regularly (how else would we who started in the 90:s have been promoted outside of Brazil?), I'm getting tired of academies and teams, with poor promotion accountability and evidence producing routines, wasting my time trying to verify a belt, sending me on a wild goose chase for something that should take minutes for them to fix. Some retroactive tinkering within the team every now and then to get the formalities in order can be acceptable, but where should we draw the line on retroactive promotion history writing? And where does the line go between still as a brown or black belt being unknowing or naive about common promotion practices (including evidence production) and purposefully acting to mislead and confuse about the circumstances surrounding the promotion?
In this case, I'm glad to see there seems to be good competition records as evidence of actual skills, so I'm giving Valerie more of a benefit of the doubt than I normally would, but that is really not something that should be taken for granted from all beltcheckers at this late stage.
Valerie has had seven months to get the Promotion history and evidence straight since I asked my first questions (some of which seems deleted from her Wall now, which has removed some of the context for the answers, some of which may also be gone). With misleading dead ends costing much time for those who have actually taken the time to try to confirm the validity of the information and not just given an upvote to be nice. So frustration in more thorough verifiers is fully understandable and could really have been avoided by getting the promotion history and evidence in order within a reasonable time frame.
What is not Valeries fault is that Checkmat's promotion routines seem like a mess. I've seen cases before, ranging from the promoting instructor (acting through proxy) never even having met the promoted (Beltchecker was thrown out of IBJJF for less) to apparent on-the-fly promotions by too low degree promoting instructors where there hasn't seemed to excist any prior arrangement who would act as the official promoting instructor behind the proxy officiant. It gives the impression that it's common practice within Checkmat to promote first and (in best case and with some trouble) arrange for someone actually legit to assume the role of promoting instructor at a later date, if someone starts asking questions or they want to register with IBJJF. At times while also being upset about being asked to clarify.
With IBJJF registrations (not just within Checkmat), it also seems as if many instructors just see it as a "signing off", without identifying as the actual promoting instructor (even if the one who was there physically to give the degree was not legit for doing the promotion). Leading to cases where there is a IBJJF registration of the degree but no one admits to having promoted the person if asked. Looking at the membership form (including a field for belt) v 3/5/14 from IBJJF, it actually leaves room for doing it like that, as it just says "Responsible person signature" and "Professor (IBJJF Certified)" and "Academy Head Instructor (IBJJF Certified)", not actually mentioning who did the promoting. Still, when IBJJF threw out Globetrotters, they wrote that "When professors sign for memberships of students who do not train under their guidance, such actions risk damaging the integrity of the sport, which goes against the values of IBJJF".
Even the IBJJF form for black belt certificate leaves room for later claiming that the signing instructor wasn't the person doing the promoting, as it just says "instructor's signature", although it's a bit pushing it as there is also a column for "instructor" where it should be filled out for each belt. But sure, you could claim that "I was the instructor during that time but I wasn't the one awarding the belt". With increasing occurrences of signing-off-instructors not admitting to be the promoting instructors, how much does a certificate or membership card from IBJJF really say when it comes to the legitimacy of your promotion or who promoted you? Which is why I think we as beltcheckers should really not just look at IBJJF status before verifying. Especially not when there are inconsistencies in the Promotion history which aren't quickly addressed when asked.
While I'm actually more liberal than IBJJF claim to be (but aren't) when it comes to e.g. a visiting head instructor promoting someone who they don't see regularly (how else would we who started in the 90:s have been promoted outside of Brazil?), I'm getting tired of academies and teams, with poor promotion accountability and evidence producing routines, wasting my time trying to verify a belt, sending me on a wild goose chase for something that should take minutes for them to fix. Some retroactive tinkering within the team every now and then to get the formalities in order can be acceptable, but where should we draw the line on retroactive promotion history writing? And where does the line go between still as a brown or black belt being unknowing or naive about common promotion practices (including evidence production) and purposefully acting to mislead and confuse about the circumstances surrounding the promotion?
In this case, I'm glad to see there seems to be good competition records as evidence of actual skills, so I'm giving Valerie more of a benefit of the doubt than I normally would, but that is really not something that should be taken for granted from all beltcheckers at this late stage.
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I think saving videos on beltchecker would increase the cost of maintenance too high for a non-profit website, but most people have either YouTube, Facebook or Instagram available, where you can store videos for free.
This is correct. Would be way too expensive to host video files here.
ANBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I am torn on this. I am going to watch from the side lines for the time being and see how this plays out. I will say that checkmat has never been good at following the 'wisdom' of ibjjf promotion time tables or rules. So it does not shock me that a first year black belt promoted a brown to black. I am curious as to why they seem to be ghosting Anthony, though. I am sure she is legit, in regards to her skill level, but it does raise a brow as to why the comms are silent when seeking an inquiry.
I just realized your school is in Hemet, my cousin lives there, and I also went to school there for a couple years in high school haha. Well, I went to Alessandro. I think I was there in 95-96
DKBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
I just realized your school is in Hemet, my cousin lives there, and I also went to school there for a couple years in high school haha. Well, I went to Alessandro. I think I was there in 95-96
Small world! If you ever feel the desire to fly across the nation to visit your cousin, be sure to come and visit us!
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Let me make sure I understand people are giving her a hard time on here when the IBJJF recognizes her coaches black and she is registered with and competes at her level in the IBJJF.
I have no dog in this fight other than being fair. I have seen a ton of aspersion and innuendo that neither is legit.. I have yet to see anyone publicly call the Black belt out and the person who signed off. She posted her "lineage" my understanding is that this is beltchecker not belt grader or deserver.
Nobody seems to deny that Checkmat accepted him as a Blackbelt and the IBJJF recognizes him as a Black Belt competitor.
My question is what are we doing here. Do I deserve my Blackbelt half the time I think I suck and it's a stupid piece of cloth. To me the only reason it matters is because of the respect I have for the person who gave it to me.
If I had a problem with this situation it wouldn't be her I called on it
I have no dog in this fight other than being fair. I have seen a ton of aspersion and innuendo that neither is legit.. I have yet to see anyone publicly call the Black belt out and the person who signed off. She posted her "lineage" my understanding is that this is beltchecker not belt grader or deserver.
Nobody seems to deny that Checkmat accepted him as a Blackbelt and the IBJJF recognizes him as a Black Belt competitor.
My question is what are we doing here. Do I deserve my Blackbelt half the time I think I suck and it's a stupid piece of cloth. To me the only reason it matters is because of the respect I have for the person who gave it to me.
If I had a problem with this situation it wouldn't be her I called on it
ANBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I was just updated by the 5th degree black belt Paulo C Elsimaani. He claims Tim’s Blackbelt, I am updating my vote and ending my dispute.
SEBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Thanks Anthony, You did a great job (after some crude accusations)!
And I am glad that this case is coming to this final with a checked belt.🫡
And I am glad that this case is coming to this final with a checked belt.🫡
Edited 2 year(s) ago
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
We should perhaps write a FAQ signed The council of not necessarily travelling downvoters, with some advice what to do to get the belt facts an evidence (including of lineage) in order and probably accepted by everyone. It takes a lot of time and effort every time from those actually verifying and surely also from those initially downvoted. Of which many seem surprisingly unknowing of lineages and formalities.
ARBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
Sigh... This place was fun at the start...
I guess it's like anything. Fun at the start, then as more people come, gets less and less...
I guess it's like anything. Fun at the start, then as more people come, gets less and less...
Edited 2 year(s) ago
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Johan,
Just curious I noticed you took removed your down vote but did not verify I was curious why. What I love about a situation like this is the individual in question gave the info they had and has basically been questioned, accused and was accused of fraud. Yet in an effort to verify a belt rank some feel it is okay to blame the person because it didn't meet their standards.
There is a huge difference between not verifying and down-voting with accusations. The best part is no I am sorry I was wrong just I was doing my job
Just curious I noticed you took removed your down vote but did not verify I was curious why. What I love about a situation like this is the individual in question gave the info they had and has basically been questioned, accused and was accused of fraud. Yet in an effort to verify a belt rank some feel it is okay to blame the person because it didn't meet their standards.
There is a huge difference between not verifying and down-voting with accusations. The best part is no I am sorry I was wrong just I was doing my job
ANBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Johan, Just curious I noticed you took removed your down vote but did not verify I was curious why. What I love about a situation like this is the individual in question gave the info they had and has basically been questioned, accused and was accused of fraud. Yet in an effort to verify a belt rank some feel it is okay to blame the person because it didn't meet their standards. There is a huge difference between not verifying and down-voting with accusations. The best part is no I am sorry I was wrong just I was doing my job
This is absolutely not what happened. There were multiple people claimed as the promoter, she has claimed multiple people who have promoted her, it’s gone back-and-forth. Multiple people have refused to verify. And then decided to verify later. Promoters have changed stories have changed, etc. What you’re saying is not based on anything that has happened. In fact, the first profile had no evidence at all, and additional evidence was added over time, after the down vote. It comes down to different people using different criteria to verify. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. If you want to verify somebody because they have a cool picture good for you. If you want to verify somebody without verifying good for you. If you want to dig into their verification, good for you. The purpose of this site is that everyone is going to do something different. I’m not telling you to follow my standard, because I’m definitely not going to follow someone else’s. in the end of the day I’m doing what’s right for the community and I’m doing right by trying to preserve integrity in our sport. And honestly, I don’t understand why anybody would have a problem with somebody trying to maintain the integrity of the sport.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
ANBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Johan, Just curious I noticed you took removed your down vote but did not verify I was curious why. What I love about a situation like this is the individual in question gave the info they had and has basically been questioned, accused and was accused of fraud. Yet in an effort to verify a belt rank some feel it is okay to blame the person because it didn't meet their standards. There is a huge difference between not verifying and down-voting with accusations. The best part is no I am sorry I was wrong just I was doing my job
And I’m pretty sure he’s going to say that she’s claiming two different people promoted her to brown belt. Because she has claimed Tim and then when he didn’t get verified, she tried to claim Rob and now she’s going back to Tim. But her picture obviously shows Tim.
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
And I’m pretty sure he’s going to say...
Yup! Anthony has already made an excellent summary.
So what do we do when she and the various Checkmat instructors have had seven months to get the story straight, but still haven't despite all attempts to help out from several beltchecker members? When we now have a situation where it's quite obvious that legit high ranking instructors are willing to do some last minute bending to retroactively legitimize her and her boyfriend according to the established standards, which Checkmat has already (hastily?) signed off Tim according to? I.e. really no need here to discuss how relevant IBJJF equivalent standards are, as they are already claimed. Can good faith really be claimed when Valerie definitively would have been able to ask Tim the very next minute, seven months ago, who promoted him and signed off for him with IBJJF?
Although I actually have quite a lot of tolerance with retroactively getting the formalities in place and sometimes have even encouraged members to do it, as far as I can remember, it has been much closer to the actual promotion AND (not least) has been followed by swift actions where the appropriate legit instructor putting his/her name on the promotion has right away and with no doubt been willing to do the deed.
There has really been to much BS going on here for me to upvote. But most of all really, this makes Checkmat look bad.
Still, Valerie has good merits on purple belt, which I don't question and any month now will also get the promotion story straight with the Checkmat brass, so I settle on neither up- nor downvoting here, but will be having less tolerance with incoherent Checkmat promotion claims and half decent evidence (including of lineage) from them in the future.
So what do we do when she and the various Checkmat instructors have had seven months to get the story straight, but still haven't despite all attempts to help out from several beltchecker members? When we now have a situation where it's quite obvious that legit high ranking instructors are willing to do some last minute bending to retroactively legitimize her and her boyfriend according to the established standards, which Checkmat has already (hastily?) signed off Tim according to? I.e. really no need here to discuss how relevant IBJJF equivalent standards are, as they are already claimed. Can good faith really be claimed when Valerie definitively would have been able to ask Tim the very next minute, seven months ago, who promoted him and signed off for him with IBJJF?
Although I actually have quite a lot of tolerance with retroactively getting the formalities in place and sometimes have even encouraged members to do it, as far as I can remember, it has been much closer to the actual promotion AND (not least) has been followed by swift actions where the appropriate legit instructor putting his/her name on the promotion has right away and with no doubt been willing to do the deed.
There has really been to much BS going on here for me to upvote. But most of all really, this makes Checkmat look bad.
Still, Valerie has good merits on purple belt, which I don't question and any month now will also get the promotion story straight with the Checkmat brass, so I settle on neither up- nor downvoting here, but will be having less tolerance with incoherent Checkmat promotion claims and half decent evidence (including of lineage) from them in the future.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
My bad then.
I stand corrected.
Obviously it still has not been cleared up in a satisfactory fashion. Thank you for explaining how I am incorrect on my standards and how they are not good for the community. It seems I am not interested in the integrity of the sport or this site.
Thank you for your efforts and taking the time to explain your viewpoint. I will bow out of this issue as I am obviously out of touch
I stand corrected.
Obviously it still has not been cleared up in a satisfactory fashion. Thank you for explaining how I am incorrect on my standards and how they are not good for the community. It seems I am not interested in the integrity of the sport or this site.
Thank you for your efforts and taking the time to explain your viewpoint. I will bow out of this issue as I am obviously out of touch
ANBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
My bad then. I stand corrected. Obviously it still has not been cleared up in a satisfactory fashion. Thank you for explaining how I am incorrect on my standards and how they are not good for the community. It seems I am not interested in the integrity of the sport or this site. Thank you for your efforts and taking the time to explain your viewpoint. I will bow out of this issue as I am obviously out of touch
I’m not taking a stab at your standards. I’m saying you don’t know the whole story because you didn’t put seven months of effort into it. When I put my name on something, I wanna make sure my name belongs there
BZBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
My bad then. I stand corrected. Obviously it still has not been cleared up in a satisfactory fashion. Thank you for explaining how I am incorrect on my standards and how they are not good for the community. It seems I am not interested in the integrity of the sport or this site. Thank you for your efforts and taking the time to explain your viewpoint. I will bow out of this issue as I am obviously out of touch
Hi Philip,
This site need you, and you're for sure an good member of this community.
Some people like to follow every line of the rules book....some others are much about feeling and practicing.
This checking machine do her work correctly in most cases because of the variety of the members, with differents experiences and point of view, it become harder for a fraud to stay out of the radars.
I don't want to be a pain in the ass, but someone just take that role and it fit pretty well to him😅(sorry for the lost bullet)
I do prefere beeing friendly and welcoming.
This site need you, and you're for sure an good member of this community.
Some people like to follow every line of the rules book....some others are much about feeling and practicing.
This checking machine do her work correctly in most cases because of the variety of the members, with differents experiences and point of view, it become harder for a fraud to stay out of the radars.
I don't want to be a pain in the ass, but someone just take that role and it fit pretty well to him😅(sorry for the lost bullet)
I do prefere beeing friendly and welcoming.
SEBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
From my point of view beltchecker needs all of us and all of us playing different roles.
Without the generosity, relaxation and experience of Philip this won‘t be the fun any more that it sometimes is and without the meticoulos work of our chief-inspector Johan this would maybe only another virtual warriors-platform to pick up some ego-push for everybody who claims (and needs).
I am relatively new here (not even a year) but I have learned one thing:
It is all nothing, when we loose checkers. This works because of we are doing it together including all of our different approaches, preserving fun and motivation!🤙🏼
Without the generosity, relaxation and experience of Philip this won‘t be the fun any more that it sometimes is and without the meticoulos work of our chief-inspector Johan this would maybe only another virtual warriors-platform to pick up some ego-push for everybody who claims (and needs).
I am relatively new here (not even a year) but I have learned one thing:
It is all nothing, when we loose checkers. This works because of we are doing it together including all of our different approaches, preserving fun and motivation!🤙🏼
Edited 2 year(s) ago
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I agree this site needs many different viewpoints.
I originally joined with the blow up between the IBJJF and BJJ Globetrotters because I was a huge fan of their concept and their is nothing I hate more than Martial arts organizations that put money ahead of everything such as them wanting several hundred dollars to "certify"
I honestly feel it is a social experiment and peer review group. The part I love most is the exchange of ideas amongst people who have a long time in the game and have experienced a lot. I have gotten to know some great people here and met some in person and am glad to be part of this.
I am in a unique work situation as I am on lots of conference calls and have the time to play a little online when the meeting diverge away from needing my direct input. so I come here.
I try to be fair in all I do and understand both sides of everything. I negotiate on huge contracts so it has always been a big key to my success and I try and bring it to everything I do,
The reason I bowed out of a discourse on this in the future is when people bring up things like "integrity of the sport" or "good of the sport" it has switched over from discussion and debate. Much like when people use the moral high ground in politics or religion to justify what the do and their point there is zero room for discussion or the exchange of ideas.
I believe in just agreeing and walking away
I originally joined with the blow up between the IBJJF and BJJ Globetrotters because I was a huge fan of their concept and their is nothing I hate more than Martial arts organizations that put money ahead of everything such as them wanting several hundred dollars to "certify"
I honestly feel it is a social experiment and peer review group. The part I love most is the exchange of ideas amongst people who have a long time in the game and have experienced a lot. I have gotten to know some great people here and met some in person and am glad to be part of this.
I am in a unique work situation as I am on lots of conference calls and have the time to play a little online when the meeting diverge away from needing my direct input. so I come here.
I try to be fair in all I do and understand both sides of everything. I negotiate on huge contracts so it has always been a big key to my success and I try and bring it to everything I do,
The reason I bowed out of a discourse on this in the future is when people bring up things like "integrity of the sport" or "good of the sport" it has switched over from discussion and debate. Much like when people use the moral high ground in politics or religion to justify what the do and their point there is zero room for discussion or the exchange of ideas.
I believe in just agreeing and walking away
ANBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I agree this site needs many different viewpoints. I originally joined with the blow up between the IBJJF and BJJ Globetrotters because I was a huge fan of their concept and their is nothing I hate more than Martial arts organizations that put money ahead of everything such as them wanting several hundred dollars to 'certify' I honestly feel it is a social experiment and peer review group. The part I love most is the exchange of ideas amongst people who have a long time in the game and have experienced a lot. I have gotten to know some great people here and met some in person and am glad to be part of this. I am in a unique work situation as I am on lots of conference calls and have the time to play a little online when the meeting diverge away from needing my direct input. so I come here. I try to be fair in all I do and understand both sides of everything. I negotiate on huge contracts so it has always been a big key to my success and I try and bring it to everything I do, The reason I bowed out of a discourse on this in the future is when people bring up things like 'integrity of the sport' or 'good of the sport' it has switched over from discussion and debate. Much like when people use the moral high ground in politics or religion to justify what the do and their point there is zero room for discussion or the exchange of ideas. I believe in just agreeing and walking away
But I think you’re wrong again. I am absolutely willing to sit here and have great discussion and discourse. I have no God complex. I don’t believe I stand on high, moral ground. I say I try to do right. And I can sleep with that every night. And you can address me. I’m sitting right here. You’re telling me I wouldn’t be open to discussion and discourse but I’m telling you I’m sitting right here saying let’s do it. Part of discussion is not choosing the answer for the other person
CGBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
From my point of view beltchecker needs all of us and all of us playing different roles. Without the generosity, relaxation and experience of Philip this won‘t be the fun any more that it sometimes is and without the meticoulos work of our chief-inspector Johan this would maybe only another virtual warriors-platform to pick up some ego-push for everybody who claims (and needs). I am relatively new here (not even a year) but I have learned one thing: It is all nothing, when we loose checkers. This works because of we are doing it together including all of our different approaches, preserving fun and motivation!🤙🏼
Very much this. Beltcheckers ability to check belt is the sum of all of us.
PDBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I never said anything about being right or wrong I posted my OPINIONS in every post on this site. They are opinions
sorry they may be wrong, poorly thought out or even downright stupid but they are opinions and I don't represent them as fact.
My original question was to Johan and not you but you answered,
You closed with this:
"If you want to verify somebody because they have a cool picture good for you. If you want to verify somebody without verifying good for you. If you want to dig into their verification, good for you. The purpose of this site is that everyone is going to do something different. I’m not telling you to follow my standard, because I’m definitely not going to follow someone else’s. in the end of the day I’m doing what’s right for the community and I’m doing right by trying to preserve integrity in our sport. And honestly, I don’t understand why anybody would have a problem with somebody trying to maintain the integrity of the sport."
What would we be discussing you have told me I am wrong several times on this thread and I am in complete agreement.
Your response leaves no real room for discourse I just agree I view the site differently and honestly my opinions are just
that. I honestly have no dog in the fight and I disagree with how both sides handled this..
Although I do admire someone spending this much time on verifying a belt. shows a certain dedication to it
I just do not have.
I think you are a good guy and really care about and love the sport. I have enjoyed our discourse in the past and
will in the future. By the way I feel the same way about Johan.
For any third parties following this is exactly why I think this is a great social experiment. In itself Belt Checker is meaningless.
It is what the participants make it and honestly the only power it will have is if outsiders accept it not us. The experiment begins with things like this not when people agree and pat each other on the back. We have our vote and our opinions I find it fascinating to watch how it grows
sorry they may be wrong, poorly thought out or even downright stupid but they are opinions and I don't represent them as fact.
My original question was to Johan and not you but you answered,
You closed with this:
"If you want to verify somebody because they have a cool picture good for you. If you want to verify somebody without verifying good for you. If you want to dig into their verification, good for you. The purpose of this site is that everyone is going to do something different. I’m not telling you to follow my standard, because I’m definitely not going to follow someone else’s. in the end of the day I’m doing what’s right for the community and I’m doing right by trying to preserve integrity in our sport. And honestly, I don’t understand why anybody would have a problem with somebody trying to maintain the integrity of the sport."
What would we be discussing you have told me I am wrong several times on this thread and I am in complete agreement.
Your response leaves no real room for discourse I just agree I view the site differently and honestly my opinions are just
that. I honestly have no dog in the fight and I disagree with how both sides handled this..
Although I do admire someone spending this much time on verifying a belt. shows a certain dedication to it
I just do not have.
I think you are a good guy and really care about and love the sport. I have enjoyed our discourse in the past and
will in the future. By the way I feel the same way about Johan.
For any third parties following this is exactly why I think this is a great social experiment. In itself Belt Checker is meaningless.
It is what the participants make it and honestly the only power it will have is if outsiders accept it not us. The experiment begins with things like this not when people agree and pat each other on the back. We have our vote and our opinions I find it fascinating to watch how it grows
Edited 2 year(s) ago
