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Any ideas on possible injury here?

2 year(s) ago • 18277 views • 36 replies

James Jones
James Jones
Black beltVerified1309 forum posts6475/1000
2 year(s) ago
I've seen this jumping guard cause bad injuries to standing opponents but never really thought about it through a transition like this before.

I finished the match then did another and then a hour later couldn't walk hardly. Hopefully slightly better tomorrow.

https://www.facebook.com/[...]0768720468

Didn't want to upload this to Youtube so it's just a public facebook post. Also have it as my story on https://www.instagram.com[...]_jiujitsu/
James Jones
James JonesOP
Black beltVerified1309 forum posts6475/1000
2 year(s) ago
I have no idea. It's really unstable and I pretty much have to walk very slowly and can't really bend or twist my knee.

The left side of my right knee is jacked up.

If I stay perfectly still and don't move I don't have any pain. lol
Anthony Restuccia
Anthony Restuccia
Black beltVerified650 forum posts12595/1000
2 year(s) ago
Damn! That gave me chills. I've had so many injuries and surgeries to my knees that I can feel your pain. It's almost certain that you have done some damage. I'd suspect you MCL and LCL which stop your knee from moving the way it did... I wouldn't be surprised if there is some meniscus damage as well. I'd get that looked at my man. It sucks, but if you don't get it taken care of and let it heal, you'll end up limping for the rest of your life like I do.
Mikey Page
Mikey Page
Purple beltVerified106 forum posts2550/400
2 year(s) ago
So that mechanism of injury is highly indicative of a possible ACL rupture also MCL. Key redflags are:
- locking
-giving way
- MOI of foot planted and in 30* of flexion and suffering a lateral blow.

Also did it swelling instantly? Did you hear an audible pop?

If not ACL may not be fully ruptured.

So my differential diagnosis would be:
- ACL rupture
- MCL rupture
- Meniscal Damage

Special Tests I would conduct:
- Lachmans
- thessaleys
- mcmurrays
- Valgus Stress test

All this would inform my decision on possible pathologies.

This would then dictate recovery time lines. And my approach to your rehab process as an Athletic Trainer.

I hope you make a speedy recovery and minimise your time off the mats.
Mikey Page
Mikey Page
Purple beltVerified106 forum posts2550/400
2 year(s) ago
I have no idea. It's really unstable and I pretty much have to walk very slowly and can't really bend or twist my knee. The left side of my right knee is jacked up. If I stay perfectly still and don't move I don't have any pain. lol
If you are unstable and cannot flex your knee. That is highly indicative of an ACL rupture.
Mikey Page
Mikey Page
Purple beltVerified106 forum posts2550/400
2 year(s) ago
I would suggest not seeing a doctor and definitely no MRI needed...
You cannot suggest this. As they will need to be clinically assessed to establish best course of action. MRI will only be suggested if the relevant objecitve testing is highlighted positive for possible ACL pathology. If needed the MRI reaffirms what damage, if any, has taken place. This will best inform their rehabilitation pathway and ultimately keep them on the mats.
Timo Rissanen
Timo Rissanen
Black beltVerified184 forum posts6150/1000
2 year(s) ago
You cannot suggest this. As they will need to be clinically assessed to establish best course of action. MRI will only be suggested if the relevant objecitve testing is highlighted positive for possible ACL pathology. If needed the MRI reaffirms what damage, if any, has taken place. This will best inform their rehabilitation pathway and ultimately keep them on the mats.
Or maybe you didn't understand irony. You should definitely ask medical advice in internet forums instead of actually seeing a doctor.
James Jones
James JonesOP
Black beltVerified1309 forum posts6475/1000
2 year(s) ago
So that mechanism of injury is highly indicative of a possible ACL rupture also MCL. Key redflags are: - locking -giving way - MOI of foot planted and in 30* of flexion and suffering a lateral blow. Also did it swelling instantly? Did you hear an audible pop? If not ACL may not be fully ruptured. So my differential diagnosis would be: - ACL rupture - MCL rupture - Meniscal Damage Special Tests I would conduct: - Lachmans - thessaleys - mcmurrays - Valgus Stress test All this would inform my decision on possible pathologies. This would then dictate recovery time lines. And my approach to your rehab process as an Athletic Trainer. I hope you make a speedy recovery and minimise your time off the mats.
Def a single loud pop.

My knees pop 100 times a day. But this was way louder and slightly slower than a normal pop. I knew the moment it happened it wasn't good.

I was very careful the rest of that match and the next and could hardly move.

An hour after it happened it became very difficult to walk at all and last night and now can't make really any movements at all that are not painful. Trying to bend the knee or moving it in any direction is very painful.
Mikey Page
Mikey Page
Purple beltVerified106 forum posts2550/400
2 year(s) ago
Or maybe you didn't understand irony. You should definitely ask medical advice in internet forums instead of actually seeing a doctor.
I don't get social cues even in person. So if no emojis or visual input of sarcasm I default to it being serious. 😂😂.

I do apologise.
Mikey Page
Mikey Page
Purple beltVerified106 forum posts2550/400
2 year(s) ago
Def a single loud pop. My knees pop 100 times a day. But this was way louder and slightly slower than a normal pop. I knew the moment it happened it wasn't good. I was very careful the rest of that match and the next and could hardly move. An hour after it happened it became very difficult to walk at all and last night and now can't make really any movements at all that are not painful. Trying to bend the knee or moving it in any direction is very painful.
Go get it assessed. As from what you've described I would refer for a scan after I complete an series of manual testing of the structures of the knee.
Sebastian Ellinghaus
Sebastian Ellinghaus
Black belt 1st degreeVerified599 forum posts34785/1000
2 year(s) ago
What about the drawer-test?
Can You do that and is there any leeway?

After I saw the vid (😨) I remembered a quite similar move back in 2007 where I suffered a cruciate ligament rupture from.
After the situation I drove via car (a gear shifted vehicle and 1 1/2 hours) home by myself and went to bed.
Next day it was hard to leave the bed because of a swollen knee.
That was only possible because the rupture was not complete and a small fiber of the ligament was left and stabilized the minimum needed….

Unfortunately tape will not fix that!🫣
Edited 2 year(s) ago
Mikey Page
Mikey Page
Purple beltVerified106 forum posts2550/400
2 year(s) ago
What about the drawer-test? Can You do that and is there any leeway? After I saw the vid (😨) I remembered a quite similar move back in 2007 where I suffered a cruciate ligament rupture from. After the situation I drove via car (a gear shifted vehicle and 1 1/2 hours) home by myself and went to bed. Next day it was hard to leave the bed because of a swollen knee. That was only possible because the rupture was not complete and a small fiber of the ligament was left and stabilized the minimum needed…. Unfortunately tape will not fix that!🫣
Anterior draw has less sensitivity compared to lachmans. But can still be utilised.
R. David Gonzalez
R. David Gonzalez
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4764 forum posts34325/1000
2 year(s) ago
I've seen this jumping guard cause bad injuries to standing opponents but never really thought about it through a transition like this before. I finished the match then did another and then a hour later couldn't walk hardly. Hopefully slightly better tomorrow. https://www.facebook.com/[...]0768720468 Didn't want to upload this to Youtube so it's just a public facebook post. Also have it as my story on https://www.instagram.com[...]_jiujitsu/
Get it checked by your Doctor asap. That looked pretty gnarly. Don't sleep on it the sooner you get checked the better.
Heal up champ
Edited 2 year(s) ago
R. David Gonzalez
R. David Gonzalez
Black belt 4th degreeVerified4764 forum posts34325/1000
2 year(s) ago
Damn! That gave me chills. I've had so many injuries and surgeries to my knees that I can feel your pain. It's almost certain that you have done some damage. I'd suspect you MCL and LCL which stop your knee from moving the way it did... I wouldn't be surprised if there is some meniscus damage as well. I'd get that looked at my man. It sucks, but if you don't get it taken care of and let it heal, you'll end up limping for the rest of your life like I do.
That is me as well.
Everyone says I walk messed up.
I can't even stand straight. Looks like I'm sitting but standing🤦🏻
Limp is permanent in my case.
Getting older sucks!
Mark Gilston
Mark Gilston
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified200 forum posts6335/1000
2 year(s) ago
I believe strongly that guard jumping should be illegal. I know of several guys who have suffered severe injuries from being on the receiving end in competition. Kani Basami (the Crab Scissors throw) was made illegal in judo for the same reason, and the shock to the opponent's knees is extremely similar.
George Klein
George Klein
Black belt 1st degreeVerified9 forum posts2070/1000
2 year(s) ago
Looks like possible injury to MCL. Need MRI confirm or rule out tear. You should get a neoprene knee sleeve to wear (compression to help with pain/inflammation) and ice it BUT FOLLOW UP WITH DOCTOR FOR PROPER COURSE OF TREATMENT. ICE 20 minute on/40 min off.
Dwight Kelly Ii
Dwight Kelly Ii
Black beltVerified171 forum posts2570/1000
2 year(s) ago
Looks like possible injury to MCL. Need MRI confirm or rule out tear. You should get a neoprene knee sleeve to wear (compression to help with pain/inflammation) and ice it BUT FOLLOW UP WITH DOCTOR FOR PROPER COURSE OF TREATMENT. ICE 20 minute on/40 min off.
There was a study in 2021 that showed icing it actually hinders the healing process when it comes to acute soft tissue injuries. My sports doctor discouraged me from icing mine after I damaged my acl and pcl from the result of a single leg takedown.
George Klein
George Klein
Black belt 1st degreeVerified9 forum posts2070/1000
2 year(s) ago
There was a study in 2021 that showed icing it actually hinders the healing process when it comes to acute soft tissue injuries. My sports doctor discouraged me from icing mine after I damaged my acl and pcl from the result of a single leg takedown.
There’s a give and take here for the healing process to happen. Inflammation is the early stage of how our body starts the healing process. Too much or too little inflammation hinders the healing process. I won’t disagree with the study you’re referencing as I haven’t read it but if he does have a complete tear of the ligament then it wouldn’t matter anyways. Icing helps with pain modulation especially in the acute phase of injury. I only speak of what I know and practice as a physical therapist. I would love to read the study you’re referencing though.
Dwight Kelly Ii
Dwight Kelly Ii
Black beltVerified171 forum posts2570/1000
2 year(s) ago
There’s a give and take here for the healing process to happen. Inflammation is the early stage of how our body starts the healing process. Too much or too little inflammation hinders the healing process. I won’t disagree with the study you’re referencing as I haven’t read it but if he does have a complete tear of the ligament then it wouldn’t matter anyways. Icing helps with pain modulation especially in the acute phase of injury. I only speak of what I know and practice as a physical therapist. I would love to read the study you’re referencing though.
I'll send you the link to your inbox.
João Silvestre
João Silvestre
Purple beltVerified57 forum posts900/400
2 year(s) ago
By the looks of how it bent, imaybe MCL? Now, it depends on how serious it is, it took me 6 weeks for a partial tear, but I knew it as soon as it happened (but then again I was doing a specific exercise during training and not jacked up on adrenaline while competing). Heat and diclofenac while you don't have a diagnosis would be my go to.
James Jones
James JonesOP
Black beltVerified1309 forum posts6475/1000
2 year(s) ago
By the looks of how it bent, imaybe MCL? Now, it depends on how serious it is, it took me 6 weeks for a partial tear, but I knew it as soon as it happened (but then again I was doing a specific exercise during training and not jacked up on adrenaline while competing). Heat and diclofenac while you don't have a diagnosis would be my go to.
Yea I finished that match then did another.
Deepu
Deepu
Black beltVerified547 forum posts6260/1000
2 year(s) ago
Ouch. Just FYI, not all ACL tears result in excruciating pain. I cried like a baby both times I tore both my knees as these were ruptures where the meniscus was also ripped apart, but have a friend who had a complete ACL tear that was painless. She just felt a pop.
James Jones
James JonesOP
Black beltVerified1309 forum posts6475/1000
2 year(s) ago
Ouch. Just FYI, not all ACL tears result in excruciating pain. I cried like a baby both times I tore both my knees as these were ruptures where the meniscus was also ripped apart, but have a friend who had a complete ACL tear that was painless. She just felt a pop.
It has been very painful. It was painful instantly but i was able to still slightly move for a few minutes, then about 30 minutes later couldn't hardly move. 2 hours after it happened basically had to walk like a zombie. And by that night anything except staying perfectly still hurt like crazy.

I can feel the healing process has already started now. Still very unstable and hard to walk but going to get it checked out in 30 minutes finally got an appointment.

I probably shouldn't of finished that match and then did the finals after. Probably made it worse. But I've never not finished a tournament that I started in my life regardless of whatever injury I've gotten in a match before.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
John A. Byrne
John A. Byrne
Black beltVerified1013 forum posts6370/1000
2 year(s) ago
Hope you start feeling better James. Sucks, I had similar from years of Kenpo and Judo, BJJ just finished the job. If your knee was popping a lot, you probably had a partial tear (if it was like how mine did). Glad you are seeing a dr.

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