Any idea who holds the fastest white-black promotion for BJJ in the UK?

Top 10 Fastest Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt Promotions in History

The road to a black belt is usually a long and hard one full of ups and downs. The average time to get promoted to black is from 8 to 14 years. It took me 12 years to get my black belt but for some BJJ practitioners, the journey was accelerated. What did they more …

I'd say the BJEE list is still a bit controversial, when it comes to those on it who were promoted later than the very early 00:s. By the mid 00:s (definitively by the late 00:s), I'd say the 4,5 year minimum standard was very well established, also outside of IBJJF. Really, what's the motivation in cutting it half a year short from the established standards, where 4,5 years is still considered extremely short, reserved for those quickly reaching a world class standard? A real and obvious quality difference even to the 4,5 year BB:s, with extraordinary BJJ merits, not least on the international BJJ scene? And a world renowned BJJ authority doing the promotion? Even then, why would you as that kind of world class BJJ player want to exclude yourself from all future competition within IBJJF and organizations with similar BB standards?

This is where I struggle with the IBJJF. After all, where does the time frame come from other than opinion? Matt for example, the OP, is a 5th Dan judo black belt, pro MMA fighter and a master of sports in Sambo. I’m not surprised he’s got his black belt in 4 years.

So are you a BJJ BB day one of training BJJ without even having any merits to show within BJJ specifically, if you're skilled enough? Sure we can have the discussion if it's even meaningful to talk about different styles, but for belts to be meaningful, we'd have to assume that the style also is meaningful. But a lot of BJJ BB:s have been submitted by practitioners of other styles (BJJ white belts technically), with technique that also exist in BJJ. These non BJJ people however have not spent years of their lives contributing to the BJJ community and the spread of BJJ and it's history (much of it fake, but never mind), traditions and over all culture. Where I personally think 4,5 years is not to long even for someone submitting BB:s on their first day in BJJ.

Why not 2 years? Why not 6 years? It’s an arbitrary number. It should surely be based on ability and the opinion of the promoting instructor? Surely?

By all means arbitrary in it's origins, but has become a de facto standard, so why would you want to have lower-than-standards? Sure there's no all mighty governing body of BJJ and you can challenge standards, but I personally believe pushing the standards in that way should only be done by world renowned instructors (basically everyone know who they are, not only on their continent) and fighters who have proven themselves repeatedly on the BJJ scene and have been up against some of the very best. A newly promoted BB like that would probably kick most of our butts, even with many more stripes on our BB:s. But there are brown belts which would kick butts with belts with a lot more stripes than I have and I still don't think 4,5 years is enough for a BJJ BB for them unless (perhaps) if they have truly extraordinary BJJ merits and a world renowned instructor willing to challenge the wider standards. Matthew looks fantastic in the few (non BJJ) clips I took a quick look at, but I don't see a single BJJ clip or competition merit, when googling him, he seems to (want to?) represent other arts. Also, I've never heard of promoting instructor Kameron Atakuru before (he can still have excellent BJJ) and Matthew's lineage (now deleted?) did not include Kameron, who I don't find any information online who promoted him (he doesn't seem to want to advertise that himself).

This is where I struggle with the IBJJF. After all, where does the time frame come from other than opinion?

Exactly. Time on the calendar shouldn't matter at all. Time on the mats, maybe so. But no other sport I can think of has these arbitrary limits. If you've never played a minute of football in your life you can get an NFL contract if you're good enough. There is no requirement to work your way up through pee-wee, middle school, high school, and college before getting to the pros. That's how the vast majority of people do it, but it's not required. At our gym we use a stripe system. If you've got 3 or 4 stripes on your belt you might be considered for promotion. You get stripes by going to class. If you go to class 3 or 4 times every week you may earn all of your stripes in about 18-24 months. But what if you are young and athletic and train 3 or 4 times per day? If your progress has kept up with your attendance, should you have your stripes in 4-5 months and be held in rank for another 2 years just because? And let's say this is sustained for 4 or 5 years. Now you've got an athlete rolling at a black belt level possibly competing against guys that are barely purple belts. Is that fair for those guys?

Kam Atakuru is renowned in the UK as a seriously high level grappler with a solid lineage. I personally don’t use competition as a marker for belt eligibility. I can see why people would, but I’m all for theoretical ability and standard in the gym also.

Normally, I think there are many other ways than competition to show belt level, but for really quick BB:s, I basically expect to see something remarkable where the persons BJJ has really been battle tested against some of the best. Out of interest, if we don't look at Matt's case (he seems to be an excellent fighter), would you personally up vote someone who got promoted after only four years and with only theoretical ability and standard in the gym (without documented top level challenges) to show? E.g. someone who has a permanent injury or isn't competitive because of high age. Could you imagine any such person placing on the BJJEE top fastest BB:s list in the future? What is Kam's lineage? My google-fu fell short.

Exactly. Time on the calendar shouldn't matter at all. Time on the mats, maybe so. But no other sport I can think of has these arbitrary limits. If you've never played a minute of football in your life you can get an NFL contract if you're good enough. There is no requirement to work your way up through pee-wee, middle school, high school, and college before getting to the pros. That's how the vast majority of people do it, but it's not required. At our gym we use a stripe system. If you've got 3 or 4 stripes on your belt you might be considered for promotion. You get stripes by going to class. If you go to class 3 or 4 times every week you may earn all of your stripes in about 18-24 months. But what if you are young and athletic and train 3 or 4 times per day? If your progress has kept up with your attendance, should you have your stripes in 4-5 months and be held in rank for another 2 years just because? And let's say this is sustained for 4 or 5 years. Now you've got an athlete rolling at a black belt level possibly competing against guys that are barely purple belts. Is that fair for those guys?

No, but if they’re a master of sports in Sambo and a 5th Dan in judo there’s a very good chance they’re going to have a high standard of BJJ in my opinion. Like Travis Stevens as an example. I’ve been trying to find it officially for you but I'm not on social media. Off the top of my head and I may be wrong, I’m going to say he either got his blackbelt from Mauricio Gomes or Ben Poppleton. Can’t remember which. Someone please state if I’m incorrect.

By all means arbitrary in it's origins, but has become a de facto standard, so why would you want to have lower-than-standards? Sure there's no all mighty governing body of BJJ and you can challenge standards, but I personally believe pushing the standards in that way should only be done by world renowned instructors (basically everyone know who they are, not only on their continent) and fighters who have proven themselves repeatedly on the BJJ scene and have been up against some of the very best. A newly promoted BB like that would probably kick most of our butts, even with many more stripes on our BB:s. But there are brown belts which would kick butts with belts with a lot more stripes than I have and I still don't think 4,5 years is enough for a BJJ BB for them unless (perhaps) if they have truly extraordinary BJJ merits and a world renowned instructor willing to challenge the wider standards. Matthew looks fantastic in the few (non BJJ) clips I took a quick look at, but I don't see a single BJJ clip or competition merit, when googling him, he seems to (want to?) represent other arts. Also, I've never heard of promoting instructor Kameron Atakuru before (he can still have excellent BJJ) and Matthew's lineage (now deleted?) did not include Kameron, who I don't find any information online who promoted him (he doesn't seem to want to advertise that himself).

So are you a BJJ BB day one of training BJJ without even having any merits to show within BJJ specifically, if you're skilled enough? Sure we can have the discussion if it's even meaningful to talk about different styles, but for belts to be meaningful, we'd have to assume that the style also is meaningful. But a lot of BJJ BB:s have been submitted by practitioners of other styles (BJJ white belts technically), with technique that also exist in BJJ. These non BJJ people however have not spent years of their lives contributing to the BJJ community and the spread of BJJ and it's history (much of it fake, but never mind), traditions and over all culture. Where I personally think 4,5 years is not to long even for someone submitting BB:s on their first day in BJJ.

Mitsuyo Maeda > Carlos Gracie Sr. > Helio Gracie > Carlos Gracie Junior > Lucio “Lagarto” Rodrigues > Colin Robinson > Kameron Atakuru The late Colin Robinson (RIP) was promoted to blue, purple and brown by Royce Gracie. He then went to train with Lagarto and was immediately demoted to purple. He then had to wait a further 18 months or so to be promoted by Lagarto back to brown. He then went on to be promoted to black . He promoted Kameron Atakuru. Quite a solid lineage I would say….

Thank you for clearing that up Michael. Who gave Kam his degrees? Ben?

the BJEE list is still a bit controversial,

BJJEE is an awful, awful website. I wouldn't trust anything on there: it's like a really shoddy tabloid newspaper. They are constantly stealing photos, poor journalism and an avalanche of advertising. If anybody uses BJJEE as their sole source, I don't pay attention.

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I’m not sure if we can talk about belts being meaningful in that sense if it is so easy for someone to walk in to an academy and be demoted, to have to then work up to that grade again (see my previous post). The IBJJF dont own BJJ and the belt time frame is their policy. If only there was a platform that didn’t have to strictly follow IBJJF rules…..

The one thing BJJEE does well is getting up high in search results. Just scroll down further. E.g., on fastest black belts, there's a more reliable list from the more reputable Jits Magazine: https://jitsmagazine.com/[...]n-history/

If the info

Demotions in BJJ is BS and would even be cheating if entering a competition as a holder of the demotion belt. I've heard of franchise gyms demanding visiting practitioners (even BB:s) to wear a white belt, but that is not the same as demotion. Although still BS. If something is to be considered better than IBJJF equivalent standards, it really should be more strict. Objectively, less strict IS lesser standards (if we're not talking money grab criteria and the likes). Even if IBJJF equivalent criteria is not law, it shall be forever known that you were promoted by lesser (if only by time) criteria than 95+% of the rest of the BJJ community. Why would you want to go there, especially on initial BB, where it can't be as clearly evened out by postponed later promotions?

By the sounds of it hes not that fast but until I read this thread I thought he was. Victor Estima did it in 6 years.

Huh? Matt did it in 4 years?