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Let's Fight about Warm Ups
6 year(s) ago • 1545 views • 40 replies
CBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Fight in a friendly way, of course :-)
I find the way most gyms warm up to be obnoxious and a waste of time. Folks spend a grip of money to attend our academies; it's crazy to me that there are teams spending nearly half a class doing calisthenics.
Of course it makes sense to lead the warm up for children, but for adults? Nah. I want to spend that hour and a half doing Jiu Jitsu, and not getting better at Crossfit.
I warm up my team with a 7 minute flow round, followed by 3 minutes of self-directed light stretching, and then it's straight into technique for 35 minutes, positional sparring for 15 minutes, then 30 or so minutes of regular sparring.
How do y'all approach warm-ups? If you prefer a tough warm up, do you have a reason for it besides tradition?
I find the way most gyms warm up to be obnoxious and a waste of time. Folks spend a grip of money to attend our academies; it's crazy to me that there are teams spending nearly half a class doing calisthenics.
Of course it makes sense to lead the warm up for children, but for adults? Nah. I want to spend that hour and a half doing Jiu Jitsu, and not getting better at Crossfit.
I warm up my team with a 7 minute flow round, followed by 3 minutes of self-directed light stretching, and then it's straight into technique for 35 minutes, positional sparring for 15 minutes, then 30 or so minutes of regular sparring.
How do y'all approach warm-ups? If you prefer a tough warm up, do you have a reason for it besides tradition?
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
No fight here. Agreed. It was briefly discussed in I guess "class structure" thread somewhere?
JJBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
My biggest problem is gyms doing static stretches and compound movements especially rushed ones before training. Jogging/Dynamic movements/stretching is the only thing that should be taking place before. Static should always be after. And compound movements shouldn't even be within 3 hours of training unless your rushed on time.
I get more strains from the warmups then I do full on 100% sparring.
I get more strains from the warmups then I do full on 100% sparring.
BDBrown beltPending
6 year(s) ago
I think a brief warmup of jiu-jitsu related movements is important for a fundamentals/beginner class. I could skip the running and cardio for sure. I would prefer flow rolling, however, have found that a large majority of people suck at flow rolling or don't know enough technique to make it beneficial.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
And compound movements shouldn't ...
English is not my native language - what's the definition of a "compound movement" here?
BTW - have read research summaries which seem to point that static stretching after
1) Doesn't do anything really physically.
2) Can theoretically be even detrimental for freshly-learned-movement-pattern retention as it messes with the neural pathways between CNS and muscle.
BTW - have read research summaries which seem to point that static stretching after
1) Doesn't do anything really physically.
2) Can theoretically be even detrimental for freshly-learned-movement-pattern retention as it messes with the neural pathways between CNS and muscle.
JJBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
English is not my native language - what's the definition of a 'compound movement' here?
Any weightlifting movement. Like Squats, Pushups etc... are the common ones.
Static doesn't need to be after. It just should never be before...especially when they are always rushed with bad form.
Static doesn't need to be after. It just should never be before...especially when they are always rushed with bad form.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
CBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
No fight here. Agreed. It was briefly discussed in I guess 'class structure' thread somewhere?
Right on! I searched around and didn't see any titles that matched, exactly.
CBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
My biggest problem is gyms doing static stretches and compound movements especially rushed ones before training. Jogging/Dynamic movements/stretching is the only thing that should be taking place before. Static should always be after. And compound movements shouldn't even be within 3 hours of training unless your rushed on time. I get more strains from the warmups then I do full on 100% sparring.
There's been a pretty big change in sports science in the last 20 years; they used to advise stretching before any strenuous workout. Now, the stretching is best done *after* training, with light movement to prepare the body and get things 'warm'. Lots of folks haven't updated their thought on this yet, I think.
CBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I think a brief warmup of jiu-jitsu related movements is important for a fundamentals/beginner class. I could skip the running and cardio for sure. I would prefer flow rolling, however, have found that a large majority of people suck at flow rolling or don't know enough technique to make it beneficial.
Interesting ideas! I do think beginners benefit from shrimping and whatnot, but I think those movements are better done in a drilling / positional sparring context, as they movement under strain is so different from the movement free-flowing along the mat.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Any weightlifting movement. Like Squats, Pushups etc... are the common ones...
Also not if the weight/volume is low (to not cause fatigue) and they're done as parts of movement flows?
JJBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I think in general be it jiu jitsu, working out or whatever. Light dynamic movements before. Light static stretching after works best.
And you can do more intense static or compound movements at some other part of the day ideally 3+ hours apart from your training.
Doing jiu jitsu, stretching or lifting weights all taxes your body and should be separate activities in general.
Just doing very light dynamic movements before and light stretching after any of these 3 activities are fine but each 3 areas should be spaced apart for maximum benefits/recovery.
And you can do more intense static or compound movements at some other part of the day ideally 3+ hours apart from your training.
Doing jiu jitsu, stretching or lifting weights all taxes your body and should be separate activities in general.
Just doing very light dynamic movements before and light stretching after any of these 3 activities are fine but each 3 areas should be spaced apart for maximum benefits/recovery.
Edited 6 year(s) ago
BDBrown beltPending
6 year(s) ago
Interesting ideas! I do think beginners benefit from shrimping and whatnot, but I think those movements are better done in a drilling / positional sparring context, as they movement under strain is so different from the movement free-flowing along the mat.
Yes, I think that can be easily transitioned to drilling/positional training. Even to this day, I have a guard recomposing drill that I do, and it works quite well when taught to beginners. Although, there is a bit of hand holding that is needed when making that transition from fundamental warm up movements to positional training.
CBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Yes, I think that can be easily transitioned to drilling/positional training. Even to this day, I have a guard recomposing drill that I do, and it works quite well when taught to beginners. Although, there is a bit of hand holding that is needed when making that transition from fundamental warm up movements to positional training.
Most def. I feel that for beginners those fundamental movements should just be part of the class...i love drills like your, that teach the fundamental movement as part of a series of movements, and not in complete isolation. We definitely get diminishing returns on shrimping up and down the mats pretty quickly.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
I used to run a boot camp style old school bjj warmup the way I was brought up until I realized it was a waste of time and attendance in my classes started to drop because of it. People come to learn jiu jitsu. I do a light warmup and then spend most of the class teaching, having them drill what was taught, having them do positional or scenario based focus drilling and sparring. They can do hardcore exercise on their time.
CBBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
They can do hardcore exercise on their time.
Man, perfectly said. Save that energy for those rounds!
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
JBBrown beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I pretty much agree with everyone here! Pure S&C should be done at a different time, and I want to maximize the time people can spend on Jiu-Jitsu when they come to class.
Beginner classes we do a short warm-up, and also use it to make people learn shrimps, breakfalls, rolls etc. It's also because I don't trust people to warm up on their own or with rolling yet. In the more advanced class we let people warm up on their own. Some do movement drills, some do dynamic stretching while others flow roll.
Our "dojo" is also part of a bigger fitness gym, so if people want to work harder we have a fully equipped gym they are free to use before and/or after class.
Beginner classes we do a short warm-up, and also use it to make people learn shrimps, breakfalls, rolls etc. It's also because I don't trust people to warm up on their own or with rolling yet. In the more advanced class we let people warm up on their own. Some do movement drills, some do dynamic stretching while others flow roll.
Our "dojo" is also part of a bigger fitness gym, so if people want to work harder we have a fully equipped gym they are free to use before and/or after class.
![Slideyfoot [jun]](userimg/5e25cf311adfd.jpg){kind=small}
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
No fight here. Agreed. It was briefly discussed in I guess 'class structure' thread somewhere?
Yep, that's in one of the instructor forums. And yeah, I 100% agree warm-ups should be entirely BJJ movements. I think press-ups, burpess or whatever are great, but you should be doing those on your own time. People pay me to teach them BJJ, not a generic exercise class. :)
TPBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I find the way most gyms warm up to be obnoxious and a waste of time. Folks spend a grip of money to attend our academies; it's crazy to me that there are teams spending nearly half a class doing calisthenics. Of course it makes sense to lead the warm up for children, but for adults? Nah. I want to spend that hour and a half doing Jiu Jitsu, and not getting better at Crossfit. I warm up my team with a 7 minute flow round, followed by 3 minutes of self-directed light stretching, and then it's straight into technique for 35 minutes, positional sparring for 15 minutes, then 30 or so minutes of regular sparring.
Christopher, I agree 100% – this is my ideal warmup, especially for an advanced class where participants can take care of their own stretching & know how to flow roll.
Unfortunately, we still have a strong culture towards "boot camp" style warm-ups that are more like an intense S&C circuit session than anything like a very sport-specific warmup. I ofc participate out of respect towards whoever is conducting the class, but I do not like it. I have the tendency to be The purple belt late from warmups too.... :D (Sometimes it makes sense to tire people before a comp class but that is for a very specific purpose.) I do my strength training & conditioning outside jiujitsu, often have done it earlier in the same day as I come to class, and think that doing a bunch of sprints, different jumps, push-ups, pull-ups, you name it, can actually be detrimental to my programming. (I guess a lot of people don't do it on their own time and the coaches want them to be strong too. Oh well.)
It used to be way worse when I started out, when it seemed that the beginners' class warmups' purpose was to smoke out weak-minded people who couldn't handle it. Well. it worked: I decided to enjoy the suffering and remained, but was the only to person to continue after the introductory course. :D (We have a lot different mindset about the whole beginners' course nowadays; I'm one of the instructors.)
Unfortunately, we still have a strong culture towards "boot camp" style warm-ups that are more like an intense S&C circuit session than anything like a very sport-specific warmup. I ofc participate out of respect towards whoever is conducting the class, but I do not like it. I have the tendency to be The purple belt late from warmups too.... :D (Sometimes it makes sense to tire people before a comp class but that is for a very specific purpose.) I do my strength training & conditioning outside jiujitsu, often have done it earlier in the same day as I come to class, and think that doing a bunch of sprints, different jumps, push-ups, pull-ups, you name it, can actually be detrimental to my programming. (I guess a lot of people don't do it on their own time and the coaches want them to be strong too. Oh well.)
It used to be way worse when I started out, when it seemed that the beginners' class warmups' purpose was to smoke out weak-minded people who couldn't handle it. Well. it worked: I decided to enjoy the suffering and remained, but was the only to person to continue after the introductory course. :D (We have a lot different mindset about the whole beginners' course nowadays; I'm one of the instructors.)
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
We were pretty much from the beginning (2003) with the idea that
a) warmup shouldn't make you tired
b) warmups should include as little as possible of stuff that anybody could do on their own at home
So Tatu you can imagine us massively slacking of and rolling our eyes when we happened to train in Finland around 2003-2008 :D
a) warmup shouldn't make you tired
b) warmups should include as little as possible of stuff that anybody could do on their own at home
So Tatu you can imagine us massively slacking of and rolling our eyes when we happened to train in Finland around 2003-2008 :D
TPBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
We were pretty much from the beginning (2003) with the idea that a) warmup shouldn't make you tired b) warmups should include as little as possible of stuff that anybody could do on their own at home So Tatu you can imagine us massively slacking of and rolling our eyes when we happened to train in Finland around 2003-2008 :D
Estonians have done a lot of things way better than the Finnish for a long time now. :)
We seem to be more stuck in "the way it's always been done" & monsters of a system that have become too troublesome to update to accommodate modern needs & knowledge. (Not talking just about grappling warmups here...)
We seem to be more stuck in "the way it's always been done" & monsters of a system that have become too troublesome to update to accommodate modern needs & knowledge. (Not talking just about grappling warmups here...)
TPBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Well at least all the Finnish grapplers were tough back in the day, because we trained hard, not smart... I don't miss it.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Well at least all the Finnish grapplers were tough back in the day, because we trained hard, not smart... I don't miss it.
You still have the types that begin their warmup at competitions like 2 hours before doing pushups and jumping jacks :D
TPBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
You still have the types that begin their warmup at competitions like 2 hours before doing pushups and jumping jacks :D
...and win? :D
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Well at least all the Finnish grapplers were tough back in the day, because we trained hard, not smart... I don't miss it.
Us too...that is why my body is a mess
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
TPBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
https://www.youtube.com/w[...]CJywlncaq0
Haha, perfect statement for jiujitsu comps: ”sometimes lose, always win!” :D
In fact I have one of those diesel engines that take a looong time to start, thus I need a thorough warmup in comps (getting the heartrate properly up & breath bulging in advance, preferably some intense rolling), and even then it takes 1 or 2 matches for me to get my groove on.
In fact I have one of those diesel engines that take a looong time to start, thus I need a thorough warmup in comps (getting the heartrate properly up & breath bulging in advance, preferably some intense rolling), and even then it takes 1 or 2 matches for me to get my groove on.
RDBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
DBBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
The one benefit I see with hard warmups before sparing is that you have to be more technical if your muscles are tired. You are slower and cannot explode out of stuff, so you are forced to use your skills. Then, on days without the intense warmups, you can combine your natural strength and speed with better technique.
TPBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
The one benefit I see with hard warmups before sparing is that you have to be more technical if your muscles are tired. You are slower and cannot explode out of stuff, so you are forced to use your skills. Then, on days without the intense warmups, you can combine your natural strength and speed with better technique.
They certainly have their place in comp class but shouldn’t be the standars imo.
