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MMA and Jiu-Jitsu without Rorion Gracie ?
2 year(s) ago • 873 views • 9 replies
MMBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Many practitioners today underestimate the impact of the Gracie family. Do you think that without the 1993 UFC MMA and Jiu-Jitsu would be as popular today? Is Rorion Gracie ultimately the one who best popularized our discipline?
https://youtu.be/eF2qrmSD[...]hzFVjjh4WI
https://youtu.be/eF2qrmSD[...]hzFVjjh4WI
JBlack belt 3rd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
When it comes to marketing, Rorion really did a great job with Gracie's in action, UFC etc. In hindsight and with the wider range of sources available publicly today, there is of course a lot that can be criticized. But one has to remember that the dominant East Asian martial arts of the time were also marketed through mythological storytelling which wasn't too concerned about truth either and those were really what BJJ and early NHB/MMA challenged. And BJJ really put it out there for everyone to see it being tested in a "real" setting in a way that made it difficult for traditional martial arts bullshitters to continue claiming their art was superior. Even if there was of course quite a lot of rigging, not least with not having wrestlers in the UFC early on. But among the competition to Royce, Ken really deserves credit for being an at the time unusually well rounded fighter. Back to Rorion though, I really don't think BJJ (or MMA) would have exploded like it did outside of Brazil without Rorions marketing some 30 years ago.
DBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
Rorian and Royce get all the credit for making things mainstream in USA for sure. UFC1 changed the martial arts world no doubt. Carlson Gracie does not get enough credit though, he was pivotal in turning jiu jitsu into the sport we practice today by setting the rule set we now have based on his mma experience.
MMBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Rorian and Royce get all the credit for making things mainstream in USA for sure. UFC1 changed the martial arts world no doubt. Carlson Gracie does not get enough credit though, he was pivotal in turning jiu jitsu into the sport we practice today by setting the rule set we now have based on his mma experience.
I think there is a little misunderstanding. Part of the Gracie family would like all practitioners to have access to a basic technical program adapted to practices such as MMA, Sport Jiu-Jitsu and Self-defense.
Competition practice is not a technical program. The regulations lead practitioners to believe that what they are practicing is identical to Helio Gracie's Jiu-Jitsu. There is therefore an amalgamation which still persists today.
Competition practice is not a technical program. The regulations lead practitioners to believe that what they are practicing is identical to Helio Gracie's Jiu-Jitsu. There is therefore an amalgamation which still persists today.
DBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
I think there is a little misunderstanding. Part of the Gracie family would like all practitioners to have access to a basic technical program adapted to practices such as MMA, Sport Jiu-Jitsu and Self-defense. Competition practice is not a technical program. The regulations lead practitioners to believe that what they are practicing is identical to Helio Gracie's Jiu-Jitsu. There is therefore an amalgamation which still persists today.
Not sure I fully understand this, but the vast majority of practioners do not want to be practicing Helio Gracie jiu jitsu. They enjoy bjj with the existing rule set.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
MMBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Not sure I fully understand this, but the vast majority of practioners do not want to be practicing Helio Gracie jiu jitsu. They enjoy bjj with the existing rule set.
That's very fair. They learn what their teachers teach them. A practitioner who focuses solely on the IBJJF sports competition for example. He will not be able to close the distance, protect himself from punchs from the guard...
Is it a problem ?
I think so.
https://www.youtube.com/w[...]Q&t=3s
Is it a problem ?
I think so.
https://www.youtube.com/w[...]Q&t=3s
DBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
Back in the day, no gi class was more of an mma class. But yeah, those days are gone. That said, I'm quite confident that the modern day student will still be able to handle themselves in a situation where strikes are involved. All the hours on the mat sparring build good habits and reflexes.
Would be nice to train with gloves on in the guard again though, those sessions were fun.
Would be nice to train with gloves on in the guard again though, those sessions were fun.
MBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
That's very fair. T"A practitioner who focuses solely on the IBJJF sports competition for example. He will not be able to close the distance, protect himself from punchs from the guard... Is it a problem ? "
I was just talking about this with a friend who is a Special Operations Forces (SOF) combative instructor. He is now fully training in sports BJJ. In self-defense and combative’ s the point is to eliminate the threat as quick as possible, and move to the next obstacle or objective. Where in BJJ, you can use the method described in the video where you slow down and wear out the opponent before you attack. Based on what BJJ is today and some of what the Gracie’s focus is not an apples to apples comparison. There are exceptions to everything. I agree with Deepu as well, most students will be able to handle a good amount of attacks from the average criminal. I would also like to go back to doing more training with the gloves on as it keeps your mind aware of the danger of just sitting in a position. When training with my SOF buddies, they will remind me that they would be stabbing me, or taking some random extreme action so they don’t tap from my submission. LOL
BNPurple beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
I think there is a little misunderstanding. Part of the Gracie family would like all practitioners to have access to a basic technical program adapted to practices such as MMA, Sport Jiu-Jitsu and Self-defense. Competition practice is not a technical program. The regulations lead practitioners to believe that what they are practicing is identical to Helio Gracie's Jiu-Jitsu. There is therefore an amalgamation which still persists today.
I'm sure that part of the Gracie family would like the entire jiujitsu world to be following their basic technical program. Of course while paying for the program. If it's purely about preserving jiu jitsu, then that cohort should have no issues with well rounded jiu jitsu as is practiseding many many gyms globally that focus on fighting (jiu jitsu and MMA).
I don't think anyone disputes the impact on UFC 1. Pretty pivotal moment.
I'm sure most competition practitioners are aware that sports jiu jitsu is not a real fight like say UFC 1. Only the minority kid themselves.
I'm also sure they also exist on the other side. Guys in real "Gracie Jiu Jitsu" systems that think they are doing jiu jitsu for "real fights" because they train with strikes - meanwhile never actually testing it at 100% in a real fight.
I don't think anyone disputes the impact on UFC 1. Pretty pivotal moment.
I'm sure most competition practitioners are aware that sports jiu jitsu is not a real fight like say UFC 1. Only the minority kid themselves.
I'm also sure they also exist on the other side. Guys in real "Gracie Jiu Jitsu" systems that think they are doing jiu jitsu for "real fights" because they train with strikes - meanwhile never actually testing it at 100% in a real fight.
MBrown beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
Back in the day, no gi class was more of an mma class. But yeah, those days are gone. That said, I'm quite confident that the modern day student will still be able to handle themselves in a situation where strikes are involved. All the hours on the mat sparring build good habits and reflexes. Would be nice to train with gloves on in the guard again though, those sessions were fun.
Still our bread and butter every week in our „no gi“ session….. stand up, clinch and ground with gloves/ against punches in the context of self defense…..
For me It’s basics and maybe „outdated“ in „modern bjj“, but that’s what I need on duty (Clinchwork, takedowns, punch protection and control, control, control)….
For me It’s basics and maybe „outdated“ in „modern bjj“, but that’s what I need on duty (Clinchwork, takedowns, punch protection and control, control, control)….
