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Allegations of BJJ gyms giving children PEDs.

2 year(s) ago • 1194 views • 24 replies

William Murphy
William Murphy
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts25730/1000
2 year(s) ago
If true, sounds like child abuse, to me.

https://www.bjjee.com/art[...]year-olds/
Mikey Musumeci: 'The Biggest BJJ Teams are Giving PEDs to 12 & 13 year Olds'
Mikey Musumeci: 'The Biggest BJJ Teams are Giving PEDs to 12 & 13 year Olds'

Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu star Mikey Musumeci has voiced serious concerns about the rising prevalence of performance-enhancing drug (PED) use among young athletes in the sport. In a recent interview, Musumeci claimed that some of the largest BJJ teams worldwide are allegedly encouraging the use of steroids among kids as young as 12 and 13 years old. …

William Murphy
William MurphyOP
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts25730/1000
2 year(s) ago
Jokes, aside, some adult, either a parent, or a coach would have to be pathologically insecure about their own self,
to feel the only way they could feel better about themselves, was to give their kid and/or kid student, athletic steroids...
Unless the kid had an endocrine disorder, or was stunted in their growth, etc. and it was for purely medical reasons.
If adults want to smoke cigars, do PEDs, or smoke crack, world of difference between adults facilitating that type of indulgent vice in kids.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
Chris Baker
Chris Baker
Brown beltVerified573 forum posts3175/700
2 year(s) ago
Given that Mica Galvao has been caught cheating, I think it's pretty clear he's on PEDs. That would have been when he was 18, and it's unlikely he started then. The situation does seem pretty likely, especially given that there are examples.
Megaton
Megaton
Black beltVerified555 forum posts6875/1000
2 year(s) ago
It is actually not surprising at all to me. I had a friend who competed for a Turkish national team ( not Jiu Jitsu) and the coaches used to line all the athletes up and give them shots. When he was “busted” for a violation of restricted substances, they “kicked” him off the team. The crazy thing is they sent him to train under the Russian federation. This has been a problem in competitive sports for generations and often ignored.
Dave Cork
Dave Cork
Black beltVerified235 forum posts2250/1000
2 year(s) ago
I believe the lack of integrity regarding this in BJJ is one of worst parts as whole. PED's full stop.

BUT CHILDREN! WTF!

However... The NZ meth head could have been considered to be on PED's and he got messed up by "I'm a BJJ black belt, leave me alone".

Maybe we're all just insecure that we no longer stand a chance against children. Our last resort of overpowering them is gone...

But seriously... Don't give your kids (dependant or student) drugs of any kind... Often
Bren Nolan
Bren Nolan
Purple beltVerified144 forum posts1460/400
2 year(s) ago
Jokes, aside, some adult, either a parent, or a coach would have to be pathologically insecure about their own self, to feel the only way they could feel better about themselves, was to give their kid and/or kid student, athletic steroids... Unless the kid had an endocrine disorder, or was stunted in their growth, etc. and it was for purely medical reasons. If adults want to smoke cigars, do PEDs, or smoke crack, world of difference between adults facilitating that type of indulgent vice in kids.
Obviously genuine medical use is outside the definition and scope of PEDs.
But it's quite clear that PED use is rampant in BJJ, and also that use includes adult giving PEDs to teens.
Bren Nolan
Bren Nolan
Purple beltVerified144 forum posts1460/400
2 year(s) ago
However... The NZ meth head could have been considered to be on PED's....
lol. No he couldn't. He was just on drugs. Not all drugs are PEDs.
He was also untrained facing black belt. Not sure how you think that is in any way relevant
William Murphy
William MurphyOP
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts25730/1000
2 year(s) ago
Obviously genuine medical use is outside the definition and scope of PEDs.
Yes.
But that obviously would not necessarily include psychological condition use.
As otherwise, every inmate would prefer to have PEDs,
as they are all depressed,
and every inmate is at higher suicide risk,
compared to general population,
and that would likely improve every inmate's body image.
Still, that is not a reason to supply PEDs to inmates,
and it would be ridiculous to do so.
Let's not forget, that psychology is pseudo-science,
much like theology, or astrology, or fortune telling.
not a science.
And must viewed critically, and with a grain of salt.
Much like theology.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
Benoit Zenthner
Benoit Zenthner
Black belt 4th degreeVerified518 forum posts12245/1000
2 year(s) ago
How would it be different when a huge majority of the coaches are under steroids ? Students are just following their professor...
Sad for the kids
Bren Nolan
Bren Nolan
Purple beltVerified144 forum posts1460/400
2 year(s) ago
Yes. But that obviously would not necessarily include psychological condition use. As otherwise, every inmate would prefer to have PEDs, as they are all depressed, and every inmate is at higher suicide risk, compared to general population, and that would likely improve every inmate's body image. Still, that is not a reason to supply PEDs to inmates, and it would be ridiculous to do so. Let's not forget, that psychology is pseudo-science, much like theology, or astrology, or fortune telling. not a science. And must viewed critically, and with a grain of salt. Much like theology.
PEDs do not treat depression.
It's pretty naive to assume every depressed person just needs to look a bit better in the mirror.
PEDs if not monitored, can mess up hormone levels enough to impact mental health.

No idea what relevance theology has. strange
William Murphy
William MurphyOP
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts25730/1000
2 year(s) ago
PEDs do not treat depression. It's pretty naive to assume every depressed person just needs to look a bit better in the mirror. PEDs if not monitored, can mess up hormone levels enough to impact mental health. No idea what relevance theology has. strange
“PEDs do not treat depression”
That was my point, especially for people who have within normal limit endocrine systems already.
“It’s pretty naive to assume…”
Not what I said, in fact, I was making a point in the opposite direction.
“Theology…”
Theology, likes psychology, are both placebo disciplines.
And my point was, for people who have within normal endocrine systems already, steroid use and PED use is probably not appropriate for purely psychological issues.
But adults can do what they like.
That does not mean that it’s appropriate for kids though.
Dave Cork
Dave Cork
Black beltVerified235 forum posts2250/1000
2 year(s) ago
lol. No he couldn't. He was just on drugs. Not all drugs are PEDs. He was also untrained facing black belt. Not sure how you think that is in any way relevant
Obviously not...
It's called a 'joke' (j-oh-kh), you should get on board, enjoy them, maybe even try one out.

MAKE AUSTRALIA GREAT AGAIN!

Further, don't quote or talk to me until you hold a rank higher than mine or you last name is Gracie or Machado.
(Another joke before you get all twisted up).

Immediate effects of Mathamphetamine:
*increased attention
*increased muscle activity
*increase respiration
*increased aggression
*decreased fatigue
*disinhibition

A bunch of these "could be considered", performance enhancement.

In an interview with McDojo the black belt mentioned said that his attacker was freakishly strong and that he struggled throughout the altercation.
William Murphy
William MurphyOP
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts25730/1000
2 year(s) ago
I have three rules, I don't fight:
1) Naked people,
2) People on PCP,
3) People covered in feces.

These are good rules.
Joe Cavett
Joe Cavett
Purple beltVerified433 forum posts4005/400
2 year(s) ago
It would not surprise me at all if it's true and it wouldn't surprise me if the parents pushed for it. It seems that more and more often the solution to children failing to perform in the desired manner is to give them drugs. Regardless of the undesired behavior the solution seems to be drugs. 35-40 years ago there were very few kids taking drugs of any kind. Now it seems like you hardly run across a kid that isn't on something. Doesn't seem like a big leap to make to PEDs.
Bren Nolan
Bren Nolan
Purple beltVerified144 forum posts1460/400
2 year(s) ago
Obviously not... It's called a 'joke' (j-oh-kh), you should get on board, enjoy them, maybe even try one out. MAKE AUSTRALIA GREAT AGAIN! Further, don't quote or talk to me until you hold a rank higher than mine or you last name is Gracie or Machado. (Another joke before you get all twisted up). Immediate effects of Mathamphetamine: *increased attention *increased muscle activity *increase respiration *increased aggression *decreased fatigue *disinhibition A bunch of these 'could be considered', performance enhancement. In an interview with McDojo the black belt mentioned said that his attacker was freakishly strong and that he struggled throughout the altercation.
The strangest part of all that is that you think there is 3 syllables in Joke. The Kiwi school system strikes again.
But luckily you've outsources your BJJ education to Australia.

I wouldn't dream of speaking to a brown belt - but I'm a visual guy. And you're still wearing a purple belt in your profile picture. So equals in my eyes
Slideyfoot [jun]
Slideyfoot [jun]
Black belt 1st degreeVerified1900 forum posts3635/1000
2 year(s) ago
I am immediately suspicious of anything from BJJee. The 'journalism' on there is extremely suspect. Is there a more reliable source?
William Murphy
William MurphyOP
Black belt 5th degreeVerified2143 forum posts25730/1000
2 year(s) ago
I am immediately suspicious of anything from BJJee. The 'journalism' on there is extremely suspect. Is there a more reliable source?
The source is allegedly Mikey Musumeci.
It should be easy enough to fact check whether or not he made that claim.
And then whether or not there is more than just hearsay proof beyond his claim as an insider / witness.
Bren Nolan
Bren Nolan
Purple beltVerified144 forum posts1460/400
2 year(s) ago
I am immediately suspicious of anything from BJJee. The 'journalism' on there is extremely suspect. Is there a more reliable source?
The IBJJF drug testing is a pretty objective source.
Brian Van Miltenburg
Brian Van Miltenburg
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified117 forum posts6070/1000
2 year(s) ago
I remember Yoel Romero talking about the cuban olympic programs. They would pump kids full of testosteron because apparently at age 18 you get a 0-test. meaning that the assumption is at age 18 you get an idea of the natural testosteron level of a person and further tests will be compared to that number. So if you make that number high enough, you have a lot of leanway to use testosteron in the rest of your life. Im not sure if this is still the case, but it shows that using PEDs on kids has been done before and not just in jiu jitsu.
Also there are clear indications giving PEDs to kids has been done in former eastern germany, the sovyets and china.

I obviously dont agree with this, I think its very harmful for kids that are fully developing. messing with the hormonal balance will be very harmful. It does however signify that its not a far fetch to think there are people out there, thinking its a good idea to give PEDs to kids.
Jamie Phillips
Jamie Phillips
Brown beltVerified13 forum posts2200/700
2 year(s) ago
Guys I am an assistant wrestling coach and I see tons of kids built like this. This is a picture of my son last year as a varsity wrestler and I can absolutely guarantee he's not on PEDs. At that age they can go all day long and those with good genetics can be absolutely shredded. Maybe some of them are in PEDs maybe not, but a picture of a jacked teen is not an indicator of PEDs.
Paul Genge
Paul Genge
Black beltVerified49 forum posts2195/1000
2 year(s) ago
I have three rules, I don't fight: 1) Naked people, 2) People on PCP, 3) People covered in feces. These are good rules.
Sadly I have had to break 3 of those rules. 🙄
Bren Nolan
Bren Nolan
Purple beltVerified144 forum posts1460/400
2 year(s) ago
I remember Yoel Romero talking about the cuban olympic programs. They would pump kids full of testosteron because apparently at age 18 you get a 0-test. meaning that the assumption is at age 18 you get an idea of the natural testosteron level of a person and further tests will be compared to that number. So if you make that number high enough, you have a lot of leanway to use testosteron in the rest of your life. Im not sure if this is still the case, but it shows that using PEDs on kids has been done before and not just in jiu jitsu.
That's not how drug testing works.
There is no assumption that the value at 18 is naturally and everything is compared to it. The tests look for elevated T:E ratios, exogenous hormones, and other markers. You can't hide them by flooding the system. Would just make it easier to discover.

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