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Submissions for children
2 year(s) ago • 1148 views • 15 replies
BZBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Hi,
I just want to know what you guys think about allowed submissions in kids competitions, at very young age.
In my approch, i use to only teach positions, guard pass and sweeps... what is for me a pretty huge chapter, where you can spend years and become a nightmare for your opponent. Then somewhere around 14 or 15 they start study submissions.
It's more safe and it respect the Child growing.
In competitions, since the very beginning of kids competitions here In Belgium, like twenty years ago, it was only positions and points. But those Last years some competitions from the USA comes, like NAGA, GRAPPLING INDUSTRIES,... and at those childs can submit. And it was kind of crazy for me to see some kids with injuries due to armbars or some parents screaming "kill him, broke that arm !" With 8 years boys.... we are not at soccer, in martial arts we should have a good behavior. Maybe i'm living in the past...what's your taugh about it ?
Hi,
I just want to know what you guys think about allowed submissions in kids competitions, at very young age.
In my approch, i use to only teach positions, guard pass and sweeps... what is for me a pretty huge chapter, where you can spend years and become a nightmare for your opponent. Then somewhere around 14 or 15 they start study submissions.
It's more safe and it respect the Child growing.
In competitions, since the very beginning of kids competitions here In Belgium, like twenty years ago, it was only positions and points. But those Last years some competitions from the USA comes, like NAGA, GRAPPLING INDUSTRIES,... and at those childs can submit. And it was kind of crazy for me to see some kids with injuries due to armbars or some parents screaming "kill him, broke that arm !" With 8 years boys.... we are not at soccer, in martial arts we should have a good behavior. Maybe i'm living in the past...what's your taugh about it ?
BMBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
In my experience, submissions are usually pretty safe, if done safely, of course.
Most kids divisions here, in this part of the US, do a good job of stopping a kids' match before injury can take place. To date, I have never seen a major injury in the kids' divisions; just lots of emotions and tears of course.
We go over submissions in our kids' classes starting at a very young age. Even if parents have kids who don't compete, they mostly all want their kids trained in submissions.
Most kids divisions here, in this part of the US, do a good job of stopping a kids' match before injury can take place. To date, I have never seen a major injury in the kids' divisions; just lots of emotions and tears of course.
We go over submissions in our kids' classes starting at a very young age. Even if parents have kids who don't compete, they mostly all want their kids trained in submissions.
JBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
In USA Judo, they don't let kids do any submissions until age 13 (when they can choke) and age 15 (when they can arm lock). I find this to be a bit too restrictive, since most kids can be responsible with submissions at an earlier age if they are taught responsibly. The policy can also teach kids bad habits, since from age 5–12, kids can lay on their bellies to avoid getting pinned with no danger, and then at age 13, they are suddenly getting choked by the whole dojo.
In the USA, most BJJ schools let kids do submissions to some extent. My son's BJJ school allows most submissions in the older kids' class, though things like wrist locks, neck cranks, and leg locks are banned (which makes it a bit like adult judo submission rules). I haven't ever seen a kid get injured with a submission because they have been taught to put subs on very carefully. My son has been hurt much worse in wrestling than he ever has in BJJ or judo.
In the USA, most BJJ schools let kids do submissions to some extent. My son's BJJ school allows most submissions in the older kids' class, though things like wrist locks, neck cranks, and leg locks are banned (which makes it a bit like adult judo submission rules). I haven't ever seen a kid get injured with a submission because they have been taught to put subs on very carefully. My son has been hurt much worse in wrestling than he ever has in BJJ or judo.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Hi, I just want to know what you guys think about allowed submissions in kids competitions, at very young age. In my approch, i use to only teach positions, guard pass and sweeps... what is for me a pretty huge chapter, where you can spend years and become a nightmare for your opponent. Then somewhere around 14 or 15 they start study submissions. It's more safe and it respect the Child growing. In competitions, since the very beginning of kids competitions here In Belgium, like twenty years ago, it was only positions and points. But those Last years some competitions from the USA comes, like NAGA, GRAPPLING INDUSTRIES,... and at those childs can submit. And it was kind of crazy for me to see some kids with injuries due to armbars or some parents screaming 'kill him, broke that arm !' With 8 years boys.... we are not at soccer, in martial arts we should have a good behavior. Maybe i'm living in the past...what's your taugh about it ?
That is the approach I favor.
Meaning, I agree with you for the most part.
Meaning, I agree with you for the most part.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
DCBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
Hmmm...
At a young age I think training should be fun. Some fundamental principles and positions and lots of games with useful bjj stuff in them.
I think kids should be exposed to submissions as soon as they prove themselves as a safe training partner with control and discipline. This is going to be different for each child but generally this hits between 7-9 years old. I think they should learn them so they can keep themselves safe more than anything. Nobody has the same critia as anybody else.
Allowing kids in a competitive event these days with only positions, sweeps and passes would be like throwing them in shark infested waters with proper swimming technique.
At a young age I think training should be fun. Some fundamental principles and positions and lots of games with useful bjj stuff in them.
I think kids should be exposed to submissions as soon as they prove themselves as a safe training partner with control and discipline. This is going to be different for each child but generally this hits between 7-9 years old. I think they should learn them so they can keep themselves safe more than anything. Nobody has the same critia as anybody else.
Allowing kids in a competitive event these days with only positions, sweeps and passes would be like throwing them in shark infested waters with proper swimming technique.
SSBlack beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
I teach all of my kids submissions, down to the youngest ones I take at 6 years old. We have no issues with injuries, I think the worst thing that’s happened is two kids bonking their heads playing dodgeball.
It takes the new kids one or two classes to really get a handle on tapping when they’re getting submitted, but that’s about it. All of the kids do well with rolling hard and getting to positions and then going slow on the actual sub the same way the grownups do. You just need to expect more out of your kids, they will surprise you.
It takes the new kids one or two classes to really get a handle on tapping when they’re getting submitted, but that’s about it. All of the kids do well with rolling hard and getting to positions and then going slow on the actual sub the same way the grownups do. You just need to expect more out of your kids, they will surprise you.
JCPurple beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
At our school they teach the kids submissions, but they really focus on control and not going full speed and force on submissions. This allows the coaches time to tap on behalf of the kids when they are in a potentially dangerous position. I am not aware of an injuries we've had related to submissions. Just the occasional bloody nose or accidental booboo. Full disclosure: I'm not a kids' coach at our school, I'm just there warming up while their class is going.
BVBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
we teach kids submissions from age 8 and up. before that just positions.
AKPurple beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
My son has been hurt much worse in wrestling than he ever has in BJJ or judo.
What scenarios in wrestling have caused damage / injuries? We don't let the kids suplex and they stay reasonably safe except for minor head bumps
AKPurple beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
My son does Judo and Wrestling (age 5). I teach him submissions myself but I'm not interested in him doing them with other kids until they are >8. Judo doesn't allow it until 12 anyway. It's more the joint locks I'm concerned about because his body is developing. Besides, watching kids wrestle for the last 18 months I've come to the conclusion that kids don't need to start that young and will easily catch up if they start submissions in their teens, from a basis of good fundamental movements. In short, I'd rather he could cartwheel than baratoplata right now.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I’m always a little surprised when I hear coaches say they have never seen anyone paralyzed, stroke, go into heart failure, break their backs, break their necks, break their limbs, damage their growth plates, permanently damage an eye, etc,
If you stay on the wrestling/Judo/Jiu-Jitsu/MMA mats rings and environments long enough, you see all those things happen.
Including to kids, adults, and to experienced grapplers / fighters.
If you stay on the wrestling/Judo/Jiu-Jitsu/MMA mats rings and environments long enough, you see all those things happen.
Including to kids, adults, and to experienced grapplers / fighters.
Edited 2 year(s) ago
JBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
What scenarios in wrestling have caused damage / injuries? We don't let the kids suplex and they stay reasonably safe except for minor head bumps
My son had his rotator cuff torn in wrestling when he was thrown by a bigger guy who landed on top of him with his full weight. I had a similar experience in judo that destroyed my labrum (a 350 lb. guy who threw me with an uchi mata). Throws are often more destructive than submissions because throws are difficult to control compared to submissions, since throws happen at full speed while submissions can be applied slowly. On my son’s high school wrestling team, the “kids” are often pretty big. My son wrestled at 190 lbs. and his partner was over 250 lbs. :)
Edited 2 year(s) ago
BZBlack belt 4th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
I’m always a little surprised when I hear coaches say they have never seen anyone paralyzed, stroke, go into heart failure, break their backs, break their necks, break their limbs, damage their growth plates, permanently damage an eye, etc, If you stay on the wrestling/Judo/Jiu-Jitsu/MMA mats rings and environments long enough, you see all those things happen. Including to kids, adults, and to experienced grapplers / fighters.
I agree 100% with you, i saw so a lot of injuries, even if we train in a pretty soft and intelligent way, we are forcing someone else body to submit by applying painfull techniques.
BVBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
Ive seen more stuff happen from throws than in judo, i believe a lot of schools disregard this practise because a lot of members dont like to practise takedowns. Especially the falls. I practise breakfalls with my gym every fundamentals class. When throwing we focus more on the set ups.
AKPurple beltVerified
2 year(s) ago
My son had his rotator cuff torn in wrestling when he was thrown by a bigger guy who landed on top of him with his full weight. I had a similar experience in judo that destroyed my labrum (a 350 lb. guy who threw me with an uchi mata). Throws are often more destructive than submissions because throws are difficult to control compared to submissions, since throws happen at full speed while submissions can be applied slowly. On my son’s high school wrestling team, the “kids” are often pretty big. My son wrestled at 190 lbs. and his partner was over 250 lbs. :)
We're very strict on matching the kids with similar size partners. Funnily enough I've had personal problems at the Judo club for declining to do Randori with higher belts who had >25kg weight advantages on me. They tried telling me I couldn't decline to spar with higher belts.
My reply was not polite. I can and do choose who I spar with.
My reply was not polite. I can and do choose who I spar with.
WMBlack belt 5th degreeVerified
2 year(s) ago
We're very strict on matching the kids with similar size partners. Funnily enough I've had personal problems at the Judo club for declining to do Randori with higher belts who had >25kg weight advantages on me. They tried telling me I couldn't decline to spar with higher belts. My reply was not polite. I can and do choose who I spar with.
Quite so.
The opposite, of that conclusion or position, seems to do much more harm that good.
The opposite, of that conclusion or position, seems to do much more harm that good.
