Can the Belt Checker team clarify: Is there a verification requirement when moving between belts (black to coral, coral to red), or does the initial black belt certification cover you indefinitely?

Bobby answered it perfectly. Black belt degrees are purely based on time served and this platform can verify better than anyone/anything else exactly how long you've been a black belt. So that's by design, not a loophole. In case you're being promoted to X black belt by someone, it must be community verified to ensure that the information about the promoting instructor, date and location is correct.

While time served is a foundational requirement under IBJJF rules, their system explicitly requires more: an application process with instructor endorsement from a certified 2nd-degree (or higher) black belt in good standing, plus documented "proven activity" (e.g., teaching, competing, or academy involvement). Lineage traceability is baked in to ensure the promotion chain holds up—it's not just a timer ticking away. Self-updating skips that oversight entirely, which could erode the trust you're aiming to build.

You'll notice that all of these options involve the IBJJF getting paid for something.

On the IBJJF website there are 57 seventh degree athletes listed. Renzo and Royce Gracie are NOT listed on there. Most people outside of Brazil train BJJ because of Royce Gracie whether directly or indirectly. And Renzo Gracie is probably more responsible for the current top American No-Gi players than anyone else. There are 33 eighth degree black belts listed. Rigan Machado is NOT listed. Rigan Machado is a LEGEND of the sport. 9th degree has 22 people listed and Rorion Gracie is not listed there. Without Rorion Gracie there is no UFC. Without the UFC there is no worldwide attention on BJJ. The IBJJF isn't that concerned with identifying who was important to the growth of BJJ if it doesn't match up with their politics. Crowd sourcing for verification has it's problems, of course. But it should, in theory, overcome the types of problems that occur when you have a smaller pool of people validating.

That means the moment anyone uses the timer button, the profile instantly and permanently violates two of the four bullet points you yourselves wrote as mandatory: 1. No evidence in the "full promotion history" for that degree 2. Zero community votes confirming that promotion is trustworthy

• Bobby: "Yes" to indefinite self-updates based on time served

Christian, Bobby, Thank you for the clarification. So, to confirm: Once a user is initially verified as a Black Belt, the platform assumes indefinite trustworthiness. No new evidence, no instructor signature, and no new community votes are required for any future degrees—including Coral and Red Belt. It is simply the passage of time and a button click. I accept that this is the platform's deliberate stance, but I want to leave you with a final thought on why this logic is tragic for the art. The "Coma" Test - Bobby, calling this a "community update" is excellent branding, but let’s be honest: it is a database script. I am a SQL programmer; I could write that timer logic in under a minute. Under this system, a verified Black Belt could fall into a coma tomorrow, retain only the ability to click a mouse, and wake up in 30 years to find BeltChecker has dutifully promoted him/her to Red Belt while on life support. That isn't a "community standard." That is an automated participation trophy. The Reality vs. The Script - Contrast that with reality. Just recently, Australian pioneer John Will (a Dirty Dozen member and student of Rigan Machado) was promoted to Coral Belt. If you check the photos on social media, he is beaming with pride. Why? Because that rank was personally bestowed upon him by his mentor in a room full of peers, recognizing a lifetime of dedication. It was a shared moment of history. Compare that to the "BeltChecker method": A silent database update at midnight because a counter hit zero. One honors the soul of the martial art; the other is a scheduled cron job. Disruption vs. Dilution - I understand your mission here is to disrupt the IBJJF. I have never been a member and never will be. But in your rush to dismantle their bureaucracy, you have swung so far in the other direction that you have removed the soul of the process. By all means, disrupt the IBJJF - but don't take down the legitimacy of BJJ in the process. Don't kill the tradition and pride of our sport for the sake of a SQL script. Even the "corrupt" IBJJF requires a human signature and proof of activity for degrees. You now require less than they do. You haven't fixed the system; you've simply gamified it. No legitimate martial art on the planet allows for self-promotion via timer. Rank has always been something a senior judges you ready for and bestows. When rank becomes something you claim via a button rather than something earned from a mentor, we aren't "checking" belts anymore. Perhaps a name change to "BeltClickers.com" is appropriate. It saddens me because this platform had such potential to be the gold standard. Instead, by automating high-level ranks, you are accidentally building the very "McDojo" factory you set out to destroy. I’ll rest my case there. Thanks for the debate, it has been valuable. Respect, Dalan

The "Coma" Test - Bobby, calling this a "community update" is excellent branding, but let’s be honest: it is a database script. I am a SQL programmer; I could write that timer logic in under a minute. Under this system, a verified Black Belt could fall into a coma tomorrow, retain only the ability to click a mouse, and wake up in 30 years to find BeltChecker has dutifully promoted him/her to Red Belt while on life support.

self-promotion is how every martial art starts.

Aren't coral and red belts just individual belts on this site or something you can claim after certain amount of stripes earned as "time served"? I thought those are individual belts and you need to get them verified just like a blue belt.

Christian, Bobby, Thank you for the clarification. So, to confirm: Once a user is initially verified as a Black Belt, the platform assumes indefinite trustworthiness. No new evidence, no instructor signature, and no new community votes are required for any future degrees—including Coral and Red Belt. It is simply the passage of time and a button click. I accept that this is the platform's deliberate stance, but I want to leave you with a final thought on why this logic is tragic for the art. The "Coma" Test - Bobby, calling this a "community update" is excellent branding, but let’s be honest: it is a database script. I am a SQL programmer; I could write that timer logic in under a minute. Under this system, a verified Black Belt could fall into a coma tomorrow, retain only the ability to click a mouse, and wake up in 30 years to find BeltChecker has dutifully promoted him/her to Red Belt while on life support. That isn't a "community standard." That is an automated participation trophy. The Reality vs. The Script - Contrast that with reality. Just recently, Australian pioneer John Will (a Dirty Dozen member and student of Rigan Machado) was promoted to Coral Belt. If you check the photos on social media, he is beaming with pride. Why? Because that rank was personally bestowed upon him by his mentor in a room full of peers, recognizing a lifetime of dedication. It was a shared moment of history. Compare that to the "BeltChecker method": A silent database update at midnight because a counter hit zero. One honors the soul of the martial art; the other is a scheduled cron job. Disruption vs. Dilution - I understand your mission here is to disrupt the IBJJF. I have never been a member and never will be. But in your rush to dismantle their bureaucracy, you have swung so far in the other direction that you have removed the soul of the process. By all means, disrupt the IBJJF - but don't take down the legitimacy of BJJ in the process. Don't kill the tradition and pride of our sport for the sake of a SQL script. Even the "corrupt" IBJJF requires a human signature and proof of activity for degrees. You now require less than they do. You haven't fixed the system; you've simply gamified it. No legitimate martial art on the planet allows for self-promotion via timer. Rank has always been something a senior judges you ready for and bestows. When rank becomes something you claim via a button rather than something earned from a mentor, we aren't "checking" belts anymore. Perhaps a name change to "BeltClickers.com" is appropriate. It saddens me because this platform had such potential to be the gold standard. Instead, by automating high-level ranks, you are accidentally building the very "McDojo" factory you set out to destroy. I’ll rest my case there. Thanks for the debate, it has been valuable. Respect, Dalan

They’re no different than “regular” black belt stripes, they just happen to change the belt color as well

Great. I'll be ordering a coral belt from Amazon if I'm alive at 78 years old...🤣

Christian, Bobby, I appreciate the willingness to engage. Christian, I’ll start with the philosophical point, and then Bobby, I will answer your direct question about "orphans" with a concrete solution. To Christian: The "Thin Air" Fallacy You wrote: "The entire BJJ belt system... is literally just invented out of thin blue air... regular humans are capable of inventing something completely out of nothing." This is true. But money is also invented out of thin air. University degrees are invented out of thin air. Laws are invented out of thin air. However, civilization functions because we agree that I cannot print my own money and I cannot award myself a PhD. The value of the "social construct" comes entirely from External Validation. By allowing self-promotion via timer, you are essentially letting users print their own currency because "time passed." That creates hyper-inflation of the rank. The Reality vs. The Script To put a personal face on this: My father earned his black belt in Karate under Stan Schmidt (a JKA legend). Stan was a 7th Degree Black Belt who didn't get that rank by waiting for a database timer to click over. He had to travel to Japan, face the masters, and have it bestowed upon him. That effort—that external judgment—is what gave the rank value. If he had just updated a website profile because "he survived another 5 years," it would have been meaningless. A database script running at midnight is just a scheduled task; a promotion is a shared moment of history. To Bobby: The "Orphan" Dilemma (A Concrete Solution) You asked: "What happens if your mentor passes away or you have a falling out... Specifically what qualifications should your mentor have?" This is the perfect use case for BeltChecker. You don't need a "Timer" to solve this; you need a "Ronin Protocol." Here is the proposal that solves the "McDojo" risk AND the "Money/Politics" risk: Scenario A: The Standard Path (Legit Lineage) Trigger: Timer hits 3 years. Action: User uploads a photo of their certificate/ceremony with their instructor. Verification: Community sees it, verifies it. Cost: $0. (Solves the "Pay to Play" issue). Scenario B: The "Orphan/Ronin" Path (Instructor Died/Left) Trigger: Timer hits 3 years, but the user has no instructor to sign off. Action: User initiates a "Community Review." They post: "My instructor passed away. Here is what I have been doing for 3 years (seminars, teaching, competition footage, contribution to the art)." Verification: The Community VOTES. Result: If the community agrees you have done the work, THE COMMUNITY acts as the instructor and promotes you. Why this fixes everything: It kills the "Coma" Loop: No one gets promoted while on life support just because a timer finished. It protects the "Orphan": You don't need a corrupt instructor; the community can save you. It maintains standards: A human being (either an instructor or the crowd) still has to say "Yes." Right now, your system assumes everyone is an orphan who needs a timer. I am proposing a system that respects lineage where it exists, and uses the power of the crowd where it doesn't. Conclusion If we don't have this distinction, we aren't "checking" belts anymore. We are just "Belt Clickers." I think that solves the dilemma without sacrificing the soul of the art. Respectfully, Dalan

"The value of the "social construct" comes entirely from External Validation. By allowing self-promotion via timer, you are essentially letting users print their own currency because 'time passed.' That creates hyper-inflation of the rank." I would disagree with this, as in either case, there would be the same amount of nth degree black/coral/red belts, just with more money going up to the top of the pyramid scheme, so this wouldn't be inflation, let alone "hyper-inflation". To address your story about your father's Karate promotion, I would guess that Karate probably has a number of more-or-less standardized actions that must take place before one gets promoted to the next rank by someone else. BJJ doesn't really have that, and it's a different martial art than Karate, so in some ways it's an apples-to-oranges scenario. I actually do like your solution to the current status quo of simple "time served" BB ranks here on beltchecker. I don't think it would take very much to allow the community to vote on whether or not someone should receive their next rank, although I would personally probably continue to vote on simple "time served" rankings unless something drastically changes within the greater BJJ culture. It's probably worth pointing out again that you can go and downvote anyone who simply claims time served on here, if you don't agree with it. In any case, if you start advocating more for your "Ronin protocol", I will back you up just as long as you stop referring to the current system as "my system", because I definitely didn't invent this shit lmao. FWIW, I'm a certified IBJJF 1st degree BB, and I was promoted in person to 1st degree by my original promoting instructor with whom I maintain a good relationship to this day. I pay him nothing and honestly, I think the promotion is more meaningful to him than it is to me, otherwise I probably wouldn't care. I am also heavily involved in BJJ almost every day of my life since I own and run a gym, and this wouldn't change if my next degree depended on it or not. I just like BJJ. Ultimately, I choose to select my "time served" promotion on here since that's what it all boils down to if you take all the money and ceremonial nonsense out of the equation. When my 2nd degree IBJJF promotion rolls around, maybe I'll claim to have been promoted by Carlinhos since he's the one who signed my certificate and see how people vote on that. I think it would be a good experiment.

Bobby, I’m able to apply for first next year. If you claim promotion by Uncle Carlos, it will be so tempting to do the same on my end! 😜

...or IBJJF:s money-for-automated time-served-stripes for that matter)...

Got to say I'm almost a bit disappointed I've still not seen any down votes on profiles with Beltchecker's automated time-served-stripes as last degree (or IBJJF:s money-for-automated time-served-stripes for that matter). Or any other consistent down votes based on objective criteria (ie not revenge votes) which doesn't result in a down vote from me as well. On the brighter side, that indicates there's already somewhat of a consensus on what is definitively enough for a profiles' promotion history to be verified (a.k.a. "Make Jonah happy, make everybody happy!"?). Or at least what would quite quickly generate a verification but no down votes, even if some members still skip voting after belt checking the profile.

I've been reading through the FAQ and I think I've found a significant loophole in your verification policy, and I'd like the community's input on this. According to your system: If I'm promoted by an instructor as a black belt to my next degree, my profile needs reverification If I self-update my black belt degree based on time served, no reverification is required Only colored belt degrees require reverification So the question is: once someone is initially verified as a black belt, can they update their degree indefinitely based on time served? And if so, what happens when they reach the top of the black belt degrees—can they then move to coral belt or red belt without verification? This creates a scenario where someone could theoretically work their way up through higher degrees and into coral/red belts with only the initial black belt verification, never needing to verify higher ranks after that. Your stated mission is to validate ranks from legitimate lineage. But this system seems to allow self-promotion through degrees without ongoing verification. Can the Belt Checker team clarify: Is there a verification requirement when moving between belts (black to coral, coral to red), or does the initial black belt certification cover you indefinitely?

Bobby, Fair play. I will stop calling it "your system." 🤝 To be clear: I don't care about the IBJJF. I care about legitimate promotion. 1. The "Friction" Factor My point about Stan Schmidt wasn't about standardized testing. It was about friction. He had to fly to Japan and face the masters. The rank had value because it was hard-fought. A SQL script running at midnight is the exact opposite of hard-fought. 2. My Personal Stance I am currently eligible for my 1st degree right now. I could click the button today. I won't. I will wait until my instructor—who I do not pay—decides I am ready and bestows it. That is the only way it carries weight. 3. The Solution: The Ronin Protocol Since you offered to back me, let's solve Patrick’s "Toxic Gym" issue without resorting to participation trophies. The Proposal: We need a distinction on the profile for degrees: Type A: Time Served (The Timer) Type B: Community Verified (Evidence uploaded + Community Vote) This allows "Ronins" (orphaned students) to be verified by the crowd, rather than just a clock. How do we move this from a forum debate to a formal feature request? Respect, Dalan