For years I've been half-joking, half totally serious regarding nogi belts: what do these guys do with their belts when they're not getting ranked? How embarrassing would it be to have to teach a purple belt how to tie his own belt? It was all fun and games until this exact scenario actually happened to me... The other night, we had a "10th Planet purple belt" who presumably was leaving his gym and starting to train at our gym; I'm not exactly sure what the situation is, as I haven't had a conversation with this individual yet. He asked me what belt to wear in our gi class, as he admitted that he was a "nogi purple belt". I told him to just wear the belt he was awarded, as I know his instructor and trust his legitimacy within the 10th Planet "system". I shit you not, we had to have a couple of our white belts try and walk him through the belt-tying process. Dude looked like a white belt had taught him how to tie his belt, too: knot all cockeyed and tied right up below his nipples. At some point during class, he gave up entirely on trying to tie the belt and just left it on the mat until the end of class. Now, I can't blame the guy for not being a good sport: he's doing the thing and giving it a shot. Ultimately, it's not his choice what belt he was awarded. Furthermore, he moves on the mat like I would expect a purple belt to move, just with no concept of gripping and the slow, grinding nature of "gi BJJ". So, I'm a little unsure of what to do with this guy, long-term. For the first few years I was training, there was no such thing as "nogi belts", and the 10th Planet "system" hadn't been invented yet; everybody just trained both with the gi and without the gi on, so this is still the lens through which I view rankings. I don't award belts to my students who choose to just train nogi. I have a handful of students who train exclusively nogi and I have a conversation with these individuals, explaining to them that I don't give nogi belts. All they have to do is demonstrate proficiency in the gi and all this requires them to do is to train in the gi maybe ten percent of the time. If you never train in a gi, then wtf do you need a belt for? Anyway, I'm about 90% sure I'm just going to roll with it and let this guy experience the brand-new sensation of wearing ancient Japanese civilian attire through the eyes of a beginner, while wearing a purple belt. He'll figure it out along the way, I suppose. But what would y'all do? I'm curious what other BB's who rank their students would do in this situation.

What is the decision you are considering here? Are you deciding whether to let him keep wearing a purple belt in the gi? What's the alternative: give him a white belt?

IMO there is no such thing as a belt ranking without wearing a gi. CAUSE YOU'RE NOT WEARING A BELT... Doesn't mean you aren't an excellent grappler. Just means you haven't been promoted in the sport/art of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu which has a Gi... I had NO PROBLEM putting on a white belt at my first official Judo class which was a Travis Stephens seminar.

You might want to have a conversation with the guy to clarify some things. Something like: "Hey, I respect your 10P purple belt. I've seen you roll and am happy to uphold your purple rank. But if you're going to train in gi, I need you to learn to tie your belt properly. It's a little silly seeing a purple belt who can't tie their belt. It's weird for you and for me."

If they had come to you from another gi gym and all else was equal, what would you do then? There is a wide range in ability within belt ranks from gym to gym, and even within some larger gyms. If a high level competitor blue belt from a gym known for training killers moved to a hobbyist gym and proceeded to destroy their black belts would it warrant a promotion to black belt? What if the roles were reversed and it was a hobbyist moving to a competition gym in order to up their game? Would they get demoted? Likely a no in either case. So just leave it alone and chalk it up to differences between gyms and move on. Regarding the inability to tie a belt, I've seen some black belts that can't tie one. I don't recall seeing the ability to tie a belt on any BJJ syllabus anywhere and the quality of the belt tying isn't even policed in the IBJJF rulebook. It really doesn't matter, but seems like it could be remedied with the investment of less than 20 minutes on Youtube. Long story short after telling the long version: Whether or not you recognize another gym's belts is up to you and whether or not you want to be a prick about it. It's one thing if they just absolutely don't have the skills to hang at their belt level, but it's another to just discredit the belt because they came from somewhere else.

Whether or not you recognize another gym's belts is up to you and whether or not you want to be a prick about it.

I guess this all hinges on if you believe jiu jitsu as a whole is tied to clothing. Conversely, if you train in the gi for 10 years and then take it off and do nogi, are you still doing jiu jitsu? Does the student perform like a purple belt? If so, does it matter that he can't tie a belt perfectly (which will take minutes to fix)?

I think jiu-jitsu as a whole is "tied" to a particular type of clothing, yes... pun intended? I apologize for my really long story-question, and I probably didn't do a great job of communicating my intention behind the question either. Probably a better question would be, "what to do with 10P belts?". I know there have been previous discussions here on the forum on Hayastan belts, which I would say is a similar scenario. FWIW, this purple belt in question was the one who asked us first which belt he should wear: white? purple? other? My guess is he also understands that there may be some discrepancies as to proper etiquette, and he probably feels more uncomfortable than anyone else about the fact that he has trouble tying his belt, so kudos to him for getting out of his comfort zone. I was the one who told him to just wear his purple belt... and then I saw that he didn't know how to tie it lmao. In any case, I'm making the executive decision not to do anything different. This was more of an existential question of sorts accompanied by what I considered to be a humorous anecdote. Just kinda curious as to whether or not anyone has encountered similar situations, or if someone was told to claim a different rank after joining a 10P gym.

The belt was for holding the gi (kimono) closed in Japan. That's it. There was no ranking involved with that until Jigoro Kano started using ranks. IN JUDO. FROM JAPAN. BEACAUSE CLOTHES.

From my pov Jiu Jitsu is a Grappling-style where the practicioners are wearing a gi. NoGi = no Jitsu. That doesn‘t mean it is not highly effektive grappling and includes many techniques which where invented in Jiu Jitsu, but it is simply not Jiu Jitsu.

Judo/jujitsu whatever existed before the gi did, they just wore street clothes. The gi was made strictly as a practical matter to stop people's every day clothes from getting ruined during training I'm not in Meji era Japan so I use spandex for that instead of heavy cotton jackets 😆

I would be hard pressed to name any position, submission, or technique that was purely invented by jiu jitsu in a gi. 95%+ of the movements in jiu jitsu have been done in the past, mostly in judo or catch wrestling. Multiple definitions of "jiu jitsu" seem to be appearing here. It's interesting that many of you solely tie it to the gi. Several of the Gracies fought in MMA without a gi. I have never heard them say it wasn't jiu jitsu when they did. It appears to be tied more to technique than clothing in their mind.

My question is this: How would you handle competition if he wanted to compete immediately?

Thank you for your feedback. I suppose there are a number of points to respond to, but I'm not a prick so don't worry about that. :) - If they had come from another BJJ gym and all things being equal, then of course, we wouldn't be having this discussion, but I'm asking primarily since 10P is purported to be a similar, albeit different art from BJJ, much like Judo, wrestling or even Luta Livre (which also has its own independent ranking system). - I have high level blue and purple belts who can destroy some hobbyist BB's from other gyms right now, and no, I don't think they deserve BB's. If the roles were reversed, I wouldn't expect that any of my BB's (regardless of training status) would get a demotion if they moved to another gym UNLESS it was a 10P gym, and as I said before, I don't think I would be "qualified" as a 10P black belt despite my BJJ ranking... again, as far as I know... - This guy could have learned to tie his belt for like the past 7 years he's been doing BJJ, but has not done so yet. No problem. He'll learn; it's not a steep learning curve. I've yet to run into a BJJ BB who can't tie their own belt... but I bet there are some out there who exist. Again, I'm not discrediting anyone because of where they came from :). Joe has a totally different opinion from you, BTW, so it's interesting to hear what promoting BB's (and others) have to say about this. I'm wondering if you'd have the same opinion on LL belts?