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Gracie Challenge 2.0
1 month(s) ago • 524 views • 32 replies
Purple beltVerified
1 month(s) ago
Being on here a while, I know there are those who are not fans of Gracie Jiu-jitsu for varying reasons. Well, I'm not posting this to trigger anyone. However, being a long distance and mostly ONLINE GU student (I go to local classes some). I thought this was neat-o! This is video of an instructor in Vermont being disrespectful to Rener online. He also claimed GU purple belts had trash Jiu-jitsu. Ah, the school yard stuff is silly, but fun and entertaining. That is how I take it.
https://youtu.be/dcOjQBp7[...]6FoMH6gAp-
https://youtu.be/dcOjQBp7[...]6FoMH6gAp-
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
1 month(s) ago
A younger bigger guy tapping out a brown belt in no gi with the same move 4 times is not very impressive. Granted the instructor shouldn't have made the challenge video in the first place, but the actual roll didn't show any particularly skillful technique on either guys' part.
Purple beltVerified
1 month(s) ago
A younger bigger guy tapping out a brown belt in no gi with the same move 4 times is not very impressive. Granted the instructor shouldn't have made the challenge video in the first place, but the actual roll didn't show any particularly skillful technique on either guys' part.
Ah-it's the younger, bigger guy thing, huh? I saw that photo of you standing next Royce. I wonder what his thoughts on the younger, bigger purple belt vs. the brown belt would be. Sincerely curious. The RNC is the number one finished submission, , "accounting for roughly 36% to 38% of all submission finishes".
One does not need to be impressive to be effective.
https://fightencyclopedia[...]ccess-rate
One does not need to be impressive to be effective.
https://fightencyclopedia[...]ccess-rate
Black beltVerified
1 month(s) ago
Being on here a while, I know there are those who are not fans of Gracie Jiu-jitsu for varying reasons. Well, I'm not posting this to trigger anyone. However, being a long distance and mostly ONLINE GU student (I go to local classes some). I thought this was neat-o! This is video of an instructor in Vermont being disrespectful to Rener online. He also claimed GU purple belts had trash Jiu-jitsu. Ah, the school yard stuff is silly, but fun and entertaining. That is how I take it. https://youtu.be/dcOjQBp7[...]6FoMH6gAp-
Curious. How do you go about getting a purple belt by doing mostly online work?
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
1 month(s) ago
I saw that photo of you standing next Royce. I wonder what his thoughts on the younger, bigger purple belt vs. the brown belt would be. Sincerely curious.
Royce told me that as an older BJJ practitioner it was good to concentrate on defense when rolling with younger more athletic opponents. Every 10 years counts as one belt rank. Every 10 pounds counts as another. That's why there are weight classes and age brackets in competitions. I don't have a problem with sleeper finishes. (RNC is a term incorrectly borrowed from a translation of a judo choke, you can call it whatever you'd like.) I just think that if he's trying to demonstrate superiority, he should have other tools in his belt. I'm not saying he wasn't competent, he was simply rather boring. I would also argue that the stats you gave are for UFC which is most definitely NOT the same as BJJ. BJJ is a sport and striking is not allowed. Also BJJ is meant to be done in a gi where the "RNC" is considerably easier to defend against.
White beltVerified
1 month(s) ago
I live by what Professor Gracie said there. I'm a 63 year old, 158lb, white belt. My life is spent in bad positions. I watched his video on not being afraid of bad positions and took it to heart. When I'm in a bad position (70% of my roll time), I focus on defending the primary attack limb, see where the support is coming from and focus on breathing and relaxing. Then feel where his base is and where I might take advantage. I still get submitted a lot but, I can feel an improvement in my defensive game. Even the people I roll with tell my how much I've improved.
Purple beltVerified
1 month(s) ago
Curious. How do you go about getting a purple belt by doing mostly online work?
Excellent question!
I got it from Ribiero (formerly)/Six blades school in SW GA. The online work is self-defense stuff with a partner at home. Hence, mostly online GU. I spend more time working on that stuff and only about a day or two in a sport bjj gym. The schools I go to that I supplement my training through have promoted me. I don't think they are threatened by the concept of me training at other places. I can give you the contact info of the black belts that work and run the gym and thought I was worthy of the purple belt...It's the only Six Blades in SW Georgia so it's not hard to find. I'm sure you can manage on your own, but if you would like my assistance, please don't hesitate to ask.
I'm not going to let the keypad get away from me, but I'm certain I can avail myself as a purple belt with good solid fundamental jiu-jitsu. I'm not talking about competition. I mean similar to what they did in the video. As far as RNC defense goes, I'm pretty solid I should think.
What was your impression of the video?
I got it from Ribiero (formerly)/Six blades school in SW GA. The online work is self-defense stuff with a partner at home. Hence, mostly online GU. I spend more time working on that stuff and only about a day or two in a sport bjj gym. The schools I go to that I supplement my training through have promoted me. I don't think they are threatened by the concept of me training at other places. I can give you the contact info of the black belts that work and run the gym and thought I was worthy of the purple belt...It's the only Six Blades in SW Georgia so it's not hard to find. I'm sure you can manage on your own, but if you would like my assistance, please don't hesitate to ask.
I'm not going to let the keypad get away from me, but I'm certain I can avail myself as a purple belt with good solid fundamental jiu-jitsu. I'm not talking about competition. I mean similar to what they did in the video. As far as RNC defense goes, I'm pretty solid I should think.
What was your impression of the video?
Purple beltVerified
1 month(s) ago
Royce told me that as an older BJJ practitioner it was good to concentrate on defense when rolling with younger more athletic opponents. Every 10 years counts as one belt rank. Every 10 pounds counts as another. That's why there are weight classes and age brackets in competitions. I don't have a problem with sleeper finishes. (RNC is a term incorrectly borrowed from a translation of a judo choke, you can call it whatever you'd like.) I just think that if he's trying to demonstrate superiority, he should have other tools in his belt. I'm not saying he wasn't competent, he was simply rather boring. I would also argue that the stats you gave are for UFC which is most definitely NOT the same as BJJ. BJJ is a sport and striking is not allowed. Also BJJ is meant to be done in a gi where the "RNC" is considerably easier to defend against.
I'm not trying to zing you, but...it's not just MMA. It's also in a Gi.
https://ibjjf.com/news/th[...]-jiu-jitsu
This one includes all chokes from the back, not just RNC, hadaka jime.
https://www.facebook.com/[...]-finishes/
To your other points, Royce fought in several UFCs where the age and weight classes were not considered. Royce acquitted himself with the use of Gracie Jiu-jitsu (mainly because no-body else knew Jiu-jitsu, Ha-ha). As to the humdrum murder yoga lack of imagination, I get it. Your personal taste should be considered. However, I admire the virtuosity exhibited there. It showed advanced control and principle driven Jiu-jitsu. Defend. Escape. Control. Submit. Ah well, to each their own.
https://ibjjf.com/news/th[...]-jiu-jitsu
This one includes all chokes from the back, not just RNC, hadaka jime.
https://www.facebook.com/[...]-finishes/
To your other points, Royce fought in several UFCs where the age and weight classes were not considered. Royce acquitted himself with the use of Gracie Jiu-jitsu (mainly because no-body else knew Jiu-jitsu, Ha-ha). As to the humdrum murder yoga lack of imagination, I get it. Your personal taste should be considered. However, I admire the virtuosity exhibited there. It showed advanced control and principle driven Jiu-jitsu. Defend. Escape. Control. Submit. Ah well, to each their own.
Purple beltVerified
1 month(s) ago
I live by what Professor Gracie said there. I'm a 63 year old, 158lb, white belt. My life is spent in bad positions. I watched his video on not being afraid of bad positions and took it to heart. When I'm in a bad position (70% of my roll time), I focus on defending the primary attack limb, see where the support is coming from and focus on breathing and relaxing. Then feel where his base is and where I might take advantage. I still get submitted a lot but, I can feel an improvement in my defensive game. Even the people I roll with tell my how much I've improved.
You are right to spend more time uncomfortable than comfortable. I worked on nothing but defense for over a year as a blue belt. I'm not submission proof, but as result, it is very difficult. I would lose by points in competitions, but I don't fear the guard pass. I think that I get more joy from a good sweep than I ever have with a submission. Good-luck to you!
Black beltVerified
1 month(s) ago
Excellent question! I got it from Ribiero (formerly)/Six blades school in SW GA. The online work is self-defense stuff with a partner at home. Hence, mostly online GU. I spend more time working on that stuff and only about a day or two in a sport bjj gym. The schools I go to that I supplement my training through have promoted me. I don't think they are threatened by the concept of me training at other places. I can give you the contact info of the black belts that work and run the gym and thought I was worthy of the purple belt...It's the only Six Blades in SW Georgia so it's not hard to find. I'm sure you can manage on your own, but if you would like my assistance, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm not going to let the keypad get away from me, but I'm certain I can avail myself as a purple belt with good solid fundamental jiu-jitsu. I'm not talking about competition. I mean similar to what they did in the video. As far as RNC defense goes, I'm pretty solid I should think. What was your impression of the video?
Anyone who gets a purple belt from a legit black belt is a purple belt. I am not doubting your rank, I was just curious. In my opinion the video just shows that most jiu jitsu guys don't understand how Gracie University actually operates. I started my journey at a GU briefly and have my kid training at one cause their kids program is excellent. I just like doing sport jiu jitsu more now myself.
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
1 month(s) ago
I'm not trying to zing you, but...it's not just MMA. It's also in a Gi. https://ibjjf.com/news/th[...]-jiu-jitsu This one includes all chokes from the back, not just RNC,
First let's distiguish between the actual rear naked choke, hadaka jime, and the sleeper which originally was made popular by Judo Gene Labelle in pro wrestling. Here's a video of hadake jime, which you should be able to tell easily is not the same as the RNC from BJJ: My belief is that the reason RNC is so popular and has such a high win percentage is that the real hadaka jime is almost never taught in BJJ, and that good RNC defense using the gi is taught almost as rarely. Also a huge percentage of RNC submission are actually neck compressions (as is the case at least once in the video you showed). So we are really talking about two different submissions and classifying them as the same thing. It is worth noting that in high level judo competitions, you almost never see the so-called RNC. By far the most common choke submission is a triangle of some sort, but okeri eri jime and kataha jime are almost certainly the most common chokes from the back. In BJJ people tend to gravitate towards RNC because the back take is emphasized so much, and because it is one of the easiest chokes to apply (most often ineffectively). Now to look at your data, once again, as you so rightly point out, the page you point to does not say RNC. The IBJJF data says "choke from the back at 44.6%". But there are several dozen effective chokes from the back. I also believe that includes both gi and no-gi competitions. RNC is likely the most common in BJJ competitions, but I am sure it is nowhere near 44%. The ADCC data is specifically no-gi and it says 27.5% RNC which I am willing to believe. https://youtu.be/9f0n8jez[...]t9S42kpvcm
Purple beltVerified
1 month(s) ago
Anyone who gets a purple belt from a legit black belt is a purple belt. I am not doubting your rank, I was just curious. In my opinion the video just shows that most jiu jitsu guys don't understand how Gracie University actually operates. I started my journey at a GU briefly and have my kid training at one cause their kids program is excellent. I just like doing sport jiu jitsu more now myself.
I see. There is a misconception (I'm not saying that you've made) that a brown belt at GU or a CTC can award a purple belt. Being a purple belt myself awarded outside of GU, it is recognized, but as a technical or technically purple. However, if I wanted a GU purple, I've got to go test with a Black belt at GU or a CTC. I probably will! Even If I get promoted again.
I with you! I love watching the sport. I absolutely get tense and have to regulate myself, but I don't like sitting up in seated guard because I think about the strikes. That's just one example. So, my sport guard game is trash, but my sweeps and defense is pretty good when my guard is passed as a purple belt, and it most often does get flanked!
I have my boy training the curriculum also. If a daughter is in my future, I'll work through it with her as well. It is very useful and thoughtful.
I with you! I love watching the sport. I absolutely get tense and have to regulate myself, but I don't like sitting up in seated guard because I think about the strikes. That's just one example. So, my sport guard game is trash, but my sweeps and defense is pretty good when my guard is passed as a purple belt, and it most often does get flanked!
I have my boy training the curriculum also. If a daughter is in my future, I'll work through it with her as well. It is very useful and thoughtful.
Purple beltVerified
1 month(s) ago
I see. There is a misconception (I'm not saying that you've made) that a brown belt at GU or a CTC can award a purple belt. Being a purple belt myself awarded outside of GU, it is recognized, but as a technical or technically purple. However, if I wanted a GU purple, I've got to go test with a Black belt at GU or a CTC. I probably will! Even If I get promoted again. I with you! I love watching the sport. I absolutely get tense and have to regulate myself, but I don't like sitting up in seated guard because I think about the strikes. That's just one example. So, my sport guard game is trash, but my sweeps and defense is pretty good when my guard is passed as a purple belt, and it most often does get flanked! I have my boy training the curriculum also. If a daughter is in my future, I'll work through it with her as well. It is very useful and thoughtful.
I'm sure that you are mostly correct. This variant is taught in the Gracie University Blue Belt Stripe 1 Lesson 38. They also label it as a RNC variant. Perhaps it's just for ease of understanding. And, it is indeed a blood choke from the rear because both arteries are compressed. In the slow motion portion of video you posted, thank you, the choke also looks like it turns into a blood choke. I'm sure it is very uncomfortable on the trachea before a person loses consciousness.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
1 month(s) ago
Why did the challenger ask for a purple belt if he was a brown belt? Did he originally issue the challenge as a purple belt and then get promoted to brown before Gracie University sent somebody (since it may have taken a while for Rener and his team to hear about the YouTube video)?
I had the good fortune to train at Gracie University in person about a year ago, and I was genuinely impressed by the quality of the instruction and the skill level of their upper belts. I was there for a two-day seminar, so I was training eight hours a day plus attending some of their morning/evening classes before/after the seminar. If someone is interested in old-school self-defense BJJ, it’s a very good place to train.
I had the good fortune to train at Gracie University in person about a year ago, and I was genuinely impressed by the quality of the instruction and the skill level of their upper belts. I was there for a two-day seminar, so I was training eight hours a day plus attending some of their morning/evening classes before/after the seminar. If someone is interested in old-school self-defense BJJ, it’s a very good place to train.
Brown beltVerified
1 month(s) ago
Why did the challenger ask for a purple belt if he was a brown belt? Did he originally issue the challenge as a purple belt and then get promoted to brown before Gracie University sent somebody (since it may have taken a while for Rener and his team to hear about the YouTube video)? I had the good fortune to train at Gracie University in person about a year ago, and I was genuinely impressed by the quality of the instruction and the skill level of their upper belts. I was there for a two-day seminar, so I was training eight hours a day plus attending some of their morning/evening classes before/after the seminar. If someone is interested in old-school self-defense BJJ, it’s a very good place to train.
It's disrespectful anyway to just claim Gracie University purple belt's Jiu Jitsu would be dog shit. Good to see he got fed some humble pie.
I mean, everybody knows, depending on lineage, instructor, academy, age, competitor/non competitor, etc....the belt "standards" and Jiu Jitsu approaches can certainly vary ......
I mean, everybody knows, depending on lineage, instructor, academy, age, competitor/non competitor, etc....the belt "standards" and Jiu Jitsu approaches can certainly vary ......
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
1 month(s) ago
I know him and did a seminar at his Rutland School years back, also stopped by his Middlebury academy a few months ago. Never had any issues with him at all and i know some of his students have also trained with me and are good. He definitely shouldn't have called out Rener and his people like that (Although it does give the "old school gracie challenge vibes"), but also Rener sent a trained killer out to him who would give any of us a run for our money for sure.
Purple beltVerified
1 month(s) ago
Why did the challenger ask for a purple belt if he was a brown belt? Did he originally issue the challenge as a purple belt and then get promoted to brown?
That's a good question. I think he has a YouTube channel of a TokTik- TikTok or something. It would be interesting to know. If that is the case and he was promoted and GU still sent a purple belt, that would be an interesting detail indeed!
Black beltVerified
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
1 month(s) ago
Lot of people left after this, not sure what he will have left.
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
1 month(s) ago
Impressive offer from Rener. Hope he follows up.
Purple beltVerified
1 month(s) ago
https://youtu.be/znyPf8hk5Kc
You beat me to it! I thought the guy showed a great bit of character. He will be alright.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
4 week(s) ago
I’m glad to see that Clarence was honest and respectful in that follow-up video. It would have been easy to make excuses, but he owned his mistake. Rener’s response was very generous, but didn’t surprise me, since he and his family have been very generous to me. I remember Relson Gracie saying years ago that if a guy comes in to challenge you, you have to defeat him, but you should never hurt or humiliate him because you want him to join your academy as a student.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
3 week(s) ago
I just saw this online. Apparently, Ryan Aitken, a 10th Planet black belt, has issued a similar challenge to Gracie U in the comments to the video about Clarence. It will be interesting to see how this turns out...
https://bjjdoc.com/2026/0[...]ZejdA0PFrg
https://bjjdoc.com/2026/0[...]ZejdA0PFrg
Black beltVerified
3 week(s) ago
Takes guts to apologize publicly like that. I'm sure a lot of people would just disappear. Respect for the humility. Hopefully everyone grows from the experience.
White beltVerified
3 week(s) ago
I understand my opinion doesn't matter much since I am a white belt with less than 6 months experience. I respect Brandon for the way he apologized after rolling with the Gracie purple belt. But, how long is this going to go on, until someone beats a Gracie practitioner? And then what? Go on YouTube and say Gracie BJJ isn't good? Isn't that what tournaments are for? If someone wants to challenge someone from another gym sign up for a tournament. I see BJJ as a family. I have competed in one tournament and competed hard. But, I don't understand this need to call out another gym and challenge them. Just the opinion of a lowly white belt.
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 week(s) ago
Aitken is an experienced professional fighter. It seems clear that he is trying to make a name for himself. If he wins, he gets fame and notoriety. If he loses, he gets to train with Rener. Sounds like a win-win scenario to me.
Purple beltVerified
3 week(s) ago
Aitken is an experienced professional fighter. It seems clear that he is trying to make a name for himself. If he wins, he gets fame and notoriety. If he loses, he gets to train with Rener. Sounds like a win-win scenario to me.
Is Ryron available for the challenge?
Black belt 3rd degreeVerified
3 week(s) ago
I understand my opinion doesn't matter much since I am a white belt with less than 6 months experience. I respect Brandon for the way he apologized after rolling with the Gracie purple belt. But, how long is this going to go on, until someone beats a Gracie practitioner? And then what? Go on YouTube and say Gracie BJJ isn't good? Isn't that what tournaments are for? If someone wants to challenge someone from another gym sign up for a tournament. I see BJJ as a family. I have competed in one tournament and competed hard. But, I don't understand this need to call out another gym and challenge them. Just the opinion of a lowly white belt.
I thought the original challenge was a challenge of the idea (and commercial concept) that you would develop good purple belts (or any higher belts) through a long distance franchise relationship as compared to having high level instructors available to you in person as well as high level training partners to sharpen each other with. Building on the assumption that that is what Gracie University currently is all about. While the purple belt had more or less lived in the main dojo, with the level of instructions and training partners which comes with that. So the whole thing looks like a big misunderstanding.
Personally, I feel no need to challenge anyone over the fact that you'd develop much faster with a high level instructor and training partners available to you regularly where you train. My own instructor was living in Brazil (now the US) and the first decade or even longer in Sweden (and Europe), it really wasn't that easy to find really good training partners. So if I'd have to make that point, it'd be more effective if I got my a** handed to me by someone who had been training for as long (30 years) AND who had access to what I was missing. I would be disappointed in myself if someone I have trained for 10 years wouldn't (with a time machine) easily destroy me 10 years into my own BJJ training.
Personally, I feel no need to challenge anyone over the fact that you'd develop much faster with a high level instructor and training partners available to you regularly where you train. My own instructor was living in Brazil (now the US) and the first decade or even longer in Sweden (and Europe), it really wasn't that easy to find really good training partners. So if I'd have to make that point, it'd be more effective if I got my a** handed to me by someone who had been training for as long (30 years) AND who had access to what I was missing. I would be disappointed in myself if someone I have trained for 10 years wouldn't (with a time machine) easily destroy me 10 years into my own BJJ training.
Purple beltVerified
3 week(s) ago
I understand my opinion doesn't matter much since I am a white belt with less than 6 months experience. I respect Brandon for the way he apologized after rolling with the Gracie purple belt. But, how long is this going to go on, until someone beats a Gracie practitioner? And then what? Go on YouTube and say Gracie BJJ isn't good? Isn't that what tournaments are for? If someone wants to challenge someone from another gym sign up for a tournament. I see BJJ as a family. I have competed in one tournament and competed hard. But, I don't understand this need to call out another gym and challenge them. Just the opinion of a lowly white belt.
Your belt level makes your opinion no more or less valid than anyone else's opinion. Being a white belt in BJJ doesn't mean your brain is switched off and you have no life experience or other training at all to help you in forming valid opinions.
Purple beltVerified
3 week(s) ago
I thought the original challenge was a challenge of the idea (and commercial concept) that you would develop good purple belts (or any higher belts) through a long distance franchise relationship as compared to having high level instructors available to you in person as well as high level training partners to sharpen each other with. Building on the assumption that that is what Gracie University currently is all about. While the purple belt had more or less lived in the main dojo, with the level of instructions and training partners which comes with that. So the whole thing looks like a big misunderstanding. Personally, I feel no need to challenge anyone over the fact that you'd develop much faster with a high level instructor and training partners available to you regularly where you train. My own instructor was living in Brazil (now the US) and the first decade or even longer in Sweden (and Europe), it really wasn't that easy to find really good training partners. So if I'd have to make that point, it'd be more effective if I got my a** handed to me by someone who had been training for as long (30 years) AND who had access to what I was missing. I would be disappointed in myself if someone I have trained for 10 years wouldn't (with a time machine) easily destroy me 10 years into my own BJJ training.
I believe you are correct in the intent being to show that long distance learning was the target of the challenge. I'm not going to go rewatch the video to verify, but I believe he said "any" GU purple belt. If that means he gets the killer from HQ, so be it.
I also agree that your student of 10 years should be better than you were at your 10 year point. That's the whole point of instruction: to get improvement more quickly by leaning on the experience and knowledge of others so you don't have to discover and develop everything on your own.
I also agree that your student of 10 years should be better than you were at your 10 year point. That's the whole point of instruction: to get improvement more quickly by leaning on the experience and knowledge of others so you don't have to discover and develop everything on your own.





