Re: the recent controversy. I don't understand the reason why certain LL people would want to rebrand themselves as BJJ.

So If I'm understanding this right, the only difference is they generally train a bit different then mainstream BJJ?

I would like all that be branded into jiu-jitsu (without the B) and give the finger to trad. guys on the fringe.

So If I'm understanding this right, the only difference is they generally train a bit different then mainstream BJJ? Which comes back to that there really isn't anything that separates the two in terms of grappling. Having different styles and different emphasis isn't really enough to separate the two. Different teachers have different styles and priorities regardless of sport.

I know quite a few LL practicioners. Over the years, I have met and trained with people from the following lineages (Daniel D'Dane / Andyconda, Ruas Vale Tudo, Taifun Luta Livre, Paderborn Wombats, RTF / Nico Welko, Rio Fighters / Milton Viera / Mestre JOP, Fabio Peroba, Roberto Leitao) They DO have a different approach than the regular, modern BJJ school... Key points: * Leglocks, heelhooks and cranks are taught and trained from day 1. * Overall, LL has remained closer to its Vale Tudo roots than modern BJJ. Even white belts know how to strike & wrestle. In contrast, I know modern BJJ coloured belts who couldn't take down their grandmother (in a wheelchair). * They tend to be tough bastards who don't cry when training gets a bit wild. * They very much have and out-of-the-box approach to submissions. They sometimes deliberately concede position in order to set up sneaky subs. * They emphasize SCRAMBLE or CHILL unexpectedly, in postions you wouldn't expect in BJJ. I've been reversed and out-scrambled by them in positions where I've shouldn't have been - but I was... * If you thought BJJ politics was bad... Luta Livre has a staggering amount of in-fighting and feuds. Every lineage hates the other with a passion. Hence, it was nearly impossible to get organized into a unified front against BJJ. I have a tremendous amount of respect for that style. Re: the recent controversy. I don't understand the reason why certain LL people would want to rebrand themselves as BJJ.

So let's say I would want to do the opposite - for marketing purposes and out of personal curiosity, I'd like to become a LL beltholder AND would like to advertise my school as LL and BJJ. What would it take? How should I proceed? Would it make any sense :D ?

serious identity crisis right there...

C'mon Alex. It's the 21st century. You can identify as whoever you want and change that based on how you feel and obviously wear clothing according to that current identity. You're also welcome to mix and match :)

So let's say I would want to do the opposite - for marketing purposes and out of personal curiosity, I'd like to become a LL beltholder AND would like to advertise my school as LL and BJJ. What would it take? How should I proceed? Would it make any sense :D ?

I feel like there's a general overthinking this LL/JJ belts and also what nowadays makes JJ and LL different. In my opinion the differences where more pronounced in the past and mostly revolved around different emphasis in wrestling phase and guard game, but very soon LL and JJ people started to compete in pretty much the same circuits and it seems to me that at the moment there are very few set of rules around which everyone works: MMA, IBJJF rules in or without the gi, ADCC and sub only. This means that LL and JJ schools are training for pretty much the same kind of competitions and being 'forced' to work around the same rules, the differences shrank noticeably. Tons of cross-training moved us all even closer to each other. There are schools of 100% LL lineage who compete in IBJJG no gi tournaments and they just go with the belt level they hold in LL, considering white, yellow and orange as a jiu-jitsu white belt, and going on the same path from blue on. This does not bother me in the slightest because there are also jiu-jitsu schools who use a green belt for adults as intermediate step between white and blue, and I remember SBG Ireland (please correct me if I'm wrong) having two belts between white and blue (white with blue line and blue with white line) which are still considered white belts when it comes to competition time. Nowadays I feel like there's more division inside BJJ lineages between people focusing on the gi aspect (IBJJF rules monopoly) and people focusing on the no gi (vastly around sub only and MMA), than there is inside the no gi scene between LL and BJJ lineages. Incidentally, because of this I have no problem at all in having LL people checking their belts on this website, without any need for changing website name or whatsoever else; but I also recognise that my point of view it's easier to understand if you live in Germany, where the no gi jiu-jitsu / luta livre intersection is strong due to the strong luta livre presence on the territory, than if you live in Italy for example which is a IBJJG gi jiu-jitsu kingdom.

Nowadays I feel like there's more division inside BJJ lineages between people focusing on the gi aspect (IBJJF rules monopoly) and people focusing on the no gi (vastly around sub only and MMA), than there is inside the no gi scene between LL and BJJ lineages.

We actually talked about it with Morcegao at the same camp where you and I met. David said that recently he went and trained with Milton Vieira in Rio for like a month, and came back with a brown belt in LL, because Milton said that he'd never heard of a guy going straight from white to black in Luta Livre. My own LL coach, Fabrice Nolbas actually started by doing BJJ and went all the way up to black belt. He started training LL about half way in his BJJ progression I believe, but shortly after he got his BJJ black belt he developped some serious hand problems after a motorcycle accident. His hands would get completly locked after training and he couldn't move his fingers for long periods of time post training. He started completely focusing on LL under Flavio Peroba then and became one of the best nogi competitors in France in his weight class. He was at the time also going to Brazil once a year and trained at the aritano barbosa's gym in Rio. Aritano gave him his black belt in Luta livre and he also gives us our certifications if we want one. It's basically like the JJ affiliations (just cheaper lol). However, I'd love to know how it all went down back when Carlson and BTT started doing mixed training of LL and BJJ.

After the big rivalry ended, Gracie Barra and Carlson actively recruited LL black belts for their no gi / mma programs. Cacareco comes to mind