Yep. Plus, it's really different from BJJ. Certain positions are included in the basics, but most BJJ black belts don't know them at all.

I wouldn't consider most of these things "positions" but certain controls / techniques. I mean it's just semantics but I think it makes sense to keep the "positions" list short and relatively unified (top-bottom, guard, half, open, side, mount, back etc etc.).

Not really related to the topic but interesting none the less.

https://bjj-world.com/jiu[...]hFnnAb69bI

Depends on how you define position, I guess. A place, where someone or something is located or has been put or a particular way in which someone or something is placed or arranged.

I'd call them positions and the requires movements and transitions leading into them I'd call techniques.

Personally I'll verify them if they are legit. Especially 10p and say other no gi schools like Gracie Tampa Network and Chris Brennan guys.

How much training in the gi do you have to have to be considered a jiu jitsu whatever belt? Is Eddie Bravos belt legit?

Eddie got his from Machado, so I'd say yes.

Probably Mike means a belt from Eddie(?).

As you know, Miikka, Lauri & Ellu Karppinen got their black belts from Eddie. They also wear them when they put on a gi (which has happened... I've seen it! :D). Legit? I think so.

They got their BJJ ranks from Magnus, as far as I know. But yes, they are very legit.

Okay so also dual black belts in 10p & BJJ from different coaches? I did not know that.

This thread has me like......

If you had a 10p or LL brown belt compete as white belt..... You'll be pissed off and claim they are cheating.

No, it's about the same as ... https://www.thelocal.es/2[...]t-disabled

No I mean would Eddie's belt be ok since he hasnt trained in a gi in.....who knows how long, he may not know. How long do you have to train in a gi before your belt is approved? Is there a set amount of time or techniques?

That's a good question. Do you have to learn lapel use to reach a certain rank? With all the different worm/squid guards out there... do you have to know them? Of course it's good to know at least how to defend them.

My students competed in their first BJJ tournament a few weeks ago. Some of them had trained in the gi only a handful of times. Yet, most did very well.

I personally am very strongly against structured unified curriculae and demonstrations. Belts should be about performance over time on the mats, in sparring not performance in a specific "test" showing techniques. And because of that I wouldn't differentiate between 10p and BJJ. However LL is a different matter because LL in general has had a more distinct identity from BJJ. But now in this thread I realise that over time 10p has become to enforce that differentiation themself :) To me they're still just an association - I'm old enough to remember Eddie vs Royler 1 :)

Roy Dean's belt tests have made me wince since I was a bluebelt :) (but at the same time, and I wrote it on his wall as well, diversity and freedom is also good so there can be different approaches)

Oh..! I think it's obvious Eddie Bravo's black belt in BJJ is legit. He trained a lot in the gi coming up, competed in gi tournaments on his early days, and got his black belt wearing a gi from JJ Machado.

Still wears half a gi (the pants) all the time! :D

Even when somebody takes 15 years completely off, their BJJ rank still stands. A BJJ black belt remains a black belt even if they lose their ability to grapple.

Shamelessly copypasting from another thread as I think it applies:

I feel like there's a general overthinking this LL/JJ belts and also what nowadays makes JJ and LL different.
In my opinion the differences where more pronounced in the past and mostly revolved around different emphasis in wrestling phase and guard game, but very soon LL and JJ people started to compete in pretty much the same circuits and it seems to me that at the moment there are very few set of rules around which everyone works: MMA, IBJJF rules in or without the gi, ADCC and sub only. This means that LL and JJ schools are training for pretty much the same kind of competitions and being "forced" to work around the same rules, the differences shrank noticeably. Tons of cross-training moved us all even closer to each other.
There are schools of 100% LL lineage who compete in IBJJG no gi tournaments and they just go with the belt level they hold in LL, considering white, yellow and orange as a jiu-jitsu white belt, and going on the same path from blue on. This does not bother me in the slightest because there are also jiu-jitsu schools who use a green belt for adults as intermediate step between white and blue, and I remember SBG Ireland (please correct me if I'm wrong) having two belts between white and blue (white with blue line and blue with white line) which are still considered white belts when it comes to competition time.
Nowadays I feel like there's more division inside BJJ lineages between people focusing on the gi aspect (IBJJF rules monopoly) and people focusing on the no gi (vastly around sub only and MMA), than there is inside the no gi scene between LL and BJJ lineages.
Incidentally, because of this I have no problem at all in having LL people checking their belts on this website, without any need for changing website name or whatsoever else; but I also recognise that my point of view it's easier to understand if you live in Germany, where the no gi jiu-jitsu / luta livre intersection is strong due to the strong luta livre presence on the territory, than if you live in Italy for example which is a IBJJG gi jiu-jitsu kingdom.

Regarding rank, I hate structured curricula, exams and demostrations. I tell my students that I look at their jiu-jitsu from, for sake of clarity, three points of view: gi, no gi and mma. You will unavoidably have a preference but you can not be completely oblivious of the other two aspects. I will award you the rank that in my opinion as coach of the school, crosschecked with senior students and if necessary with my international references, reflects your expertise in your area of preference, as long as you're not completely unaware of the other two aspects.

Well...

@Christian aka webmaster can we merge the threads? XD

Also to be honest, "verified on photo evidence" hunting for a verify4verify thing, makes me cringe far more than verifying a LL belt... :D

An alternate way to look at this is how much experience do you have in a specific subset of jiu-jitsu/submission grappling.

I have 10 years experience gi, 10 years experience no-gi, ~2 years for Judo, and 0 for LL, CACC, 10p. In those subsets I have zero years experience, of course I pull techniques I like from them but I don't pretend that my gi/no-gi jiu-jitsu black belt necessarily makes me a black belt (or any level) in those other subsets.

As long as people are honest about their experience in any identified subset of jiu-jitsu/submission grappling, I have no problem recognizing a black belt in a subset and I wouldn't dispute their belt. I'd also only vote for people that are claiming experience within my subset.

Hmm. A lot of this no-gi / gi separation is silly, in my opinion. I wreck the same dudes when I take off the gi that I wreck with the gi on, despite doing nogi literally as few times as I possible can each year. Jiu Jitsu is Jiu Jitsu.

I get smashed every time I go to 10th Planet Tampere. Those guys do primarily submission grappling, not BJJ. And they are really good at it. I can gimp some lower belts with my style, but I'm an easy target to everybody at purple or above. I'm pretty sure I would be a challenge to them with the gi.

Who do you think would win with the gi, Gordon Ryan or Keenan Cornelius? I would say Keenan wins with the gi 9 times out of 10. There's a difference.