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How many techniques do you really use?
6 year(s) ago • 7357 views • 43 replies
AKPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Good points and I may bave been conflating the terms of 'technique' and 'concept'. I look at jiu jitsu a lot like boxing now - a combat sport that really only has a handful of techniques that can be put together in an endless series of combinations - very effectively! The 'concept' of 'protect your jaw' is accomplished by the 'techniques' of keeping your hands up and tucking your jaw along side your lead shoulder. I could see how 'hands up' could be looked at as a concept as there are many different subskills to that (slap down, elbow up, elbow down to block a body shot, etc). And as for myself, I simply don't have time to practice and get really good at 50+ techniques (and stay good at them via 'maintenance' practice). I'm would say I'm familiar with over 50 techniques but I wouldn't say I'm 'good' (or even decent) at most of them, which is why I strive to make my game as lean as possible, playing to my biomechanical strengths (heavier while being tall and long limbed) and minimizing my weaknesses (long legs are easy targets for leg attacks, center of balance is higher). Good discussion, btw! :)
Well on that note, i don't fancy drilling 50 techniques on a regular basis either. My plan is that i've designed 6 positional sparring / mini games each with rules and points systems. Each game essentially forces some sparring around the area that any of the techniques would be used anyway:
1. Takedowns: 5 attempts each
2. EBI Overtime rules: 3 rounds
3. Guard: starting top / bottom in closed guard, half guard, lockdown and butterfly with points for passing, sweeping or submitting
4. Footlock escapes: starting in (their) ashi, you have 2 minutes to escape as many times as possible. Unlimited taps, change leg after each tap or escape.
5. Standing Guard passes vs a Butt Scooter: 5 attempts each
6. Top Game: starting in top / bottom side control, north-south, scarf and mount with points for passing, escaping or submitting
There isn't much in the 51 techniques that those games wouldn't touch, except maybe a von flue choke which can always be drilled in the old fashioned way.
1. Takedowns: 5 attempts each
2. EBI Overtime rules: 3 rounds
3. Guard: starting top / bottom in closed guard, half guard, lockdown and butterfly with points for passing, sweeping or submitting
4. Footlock escapes: starting in (their) ashi, you have 2 minutes to escape as many times as possible. Unlimited taps, change leg after each tap or escape.
5. Standing Guard passes vs a Butt Scooter: 5 attempts each
6. Top Game: starting in top / bottom side control, north-south, scarf and mount with points for passing, escaping or submitting
There isn't much in the 51 techniques that those games wouldn't touch, except maybe a von flue choke which can always be drilled in the old fashioned way.
AKPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Such a rambunctious character, with so many high hopes. its always like that until you get promoted. then it all goes out the window..
I'm expecting blue to be a loooong belt and a grind. I just want to know that i'm chipping away at the right things. Don't honestly see myself ever going above purple to be honest but that's not an immediate problem.
I played rugby for 7 years, just going with the flow and doing whatever my coach wanted me too, played most matches as flanker. After 7 years my skills had thoroughly stagnated and they were like "yeah we really should have started you out in a different position (scrum half), you don't really have the right body type for flanker". Needless to say i never made the switch and feel like i wasted a lot of time on that sport. After that I become more of an active learner. Or a rambunctious one.
I played rugby for 7 years, just going with the flow and doing whatever my coach wanted me too, played most matches as flanker. After 7 years my skills had thoroughly stagnated and they were like "yeah we really should have started you out in a different position (scrum half), you don't really have the right body type for flanker". Needless to say i never made the switch and feel like i wasted a lot of time on that sport. After that I become more of an active learner. Or a rambunctious one.
JABlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I'm expecting blue to be a loooong belt and a grind. I just want to know that i'm chipping away at the right things.
As someone who is trying to survive Blue belt at the 4-year marker currently, I feel your pain. I can only recommend enjoying the process and to be micro-goal focused, ie, try to learn a guard, or escapes from a position etc. Like a buffet line of techniques and concepts.
I love X guard, and closed guard, so I work on different ways to get to X from different open guards etc - and how to use my judo to get to different positions, etc.
I read here from one of the Black Belts saying Blue belt is to be survived. I wish I knew who said that but it has helped me.
I love X guard, and closed guard, so I work on different ways to get to X from different open guards etc - and how to use my judo to get to different positions, etc.
I read here from one of the Black Belts saying Blue belt is to be survived. I wish I knew who said that but it has helped me.
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Alexander King-Zhang
Plot twist: give it 1-2 years into your bluebelt and you'll suddenly fall in love with the gi, wrapping people in their own clothing, microbattling grips (which is about as interesting to an outsider as watching grass grow) and loving it ;)
AKPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Plot twist: give it 1-2 years into your bluebelt and you'll suddenly fall in love with the gi, wrapping people in their own clothing, microbattling grips (which is about as interesting to an outsider as watching grass grow) and loving it ;)
Microbattling grips sounds as interesting as watching the mats expand with the daily temperature fluctuations
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Well you don't know until you try ;)
Consider yourself gi-curious for now, even if you don't yet think that way :P
Consider yourself gi-curious for now, even if you don't yet think that way :P
JJBlack beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I am sure someone will say I am wrong on this but I also feel that it is so much easier to pass someone's guard in the Gi at least at white and blue belt levels. That might change at purple and up with all the different guards...but I really feel like the white/blue belts its way easier to pass guard with the gi and stay on top once you pass, More grips to hold onto someone and friction and less scrambling and I love pulling myself from top 1/2 guard into side control with a cross collar choke grip.
AKPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Well you don't know until you try ;) Consider yourself gi-curious for now, even if you don't yet think that way :P
How you gonna do MMA when you can't even close your fist?
JMBlack belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
How you gonna do MMA when you can't even close your fist?
TBH it's not that bad if you don't overdose. I've always been doing more or less both gi and nogi, tried to put on a gi about once a week even in my MMA days and that's what I also recommend to my students at least till good purple belt level.
Anyway I'll give you an idea that my friend Indrek Reiland (who was the co-founder of our club) came up with:
To some extent one could argue that GI also has similarities to no-gi. In no gi you get away with risking a lot and scrambling a lot. In gi you make one unnecessary mistake and you're stuck and you suffer for it - MMA is the same.
Anyway I'll give you an idea that my friend Indrek Reiland (who was the co-founder of our club) came up with:
To some extent one could argue that GI also has similarities to no-gi. In no gi you get away with risking a lot and scrambling a lot. In gi you make one unnecessary mistake and you're stuck and you suffer for it - MMA is the same.
JJBlack beltVerified
AKPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I am sure someone will say I am wrong on this but I also feel that it is so much easier to pass someone's guard in the Gi at least at white and blue belt levels. That might change at purple and up with all the different guards...but I really feel like the white/blue belts its way easier to pass guard with the gi and stay on top once you pass, More grips to hold onto someone and friction and less scrambling and I love pulling myself from top 1/2 guard into side control with a cross collar choke grip.
Statistically there's a lot more guard passing in NoGi than Gi, at the higher levels. However, that doesn't mean what you said is wrong about white and blue level. Personally i find NoGi guard passing easier, but that might also have something to do with sample bias. I usually enter Gi and NoGi in the same event, in very general terms, the people with the best guards are more likely to only enter Gi. In NoGi, i only really concern myself with the good leg lockers.
![Slideyfoot [jun]](userimg/5e25cf311adfd.jpg){kind=small}
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
In terms of how many you need, that's a whole different question. How many I personally use, most of the time, I'd say pretty much just three:
North-south kimura
Running escape
Turtle
Often (almost 100% of the time against somebody better than me, which is a looooooot of peopel) I will start off in running escape, trying to make my way to the top from there. But those three would cover off the majority of my BJJ (I could subdivide those a bunch, I guess, like the various way to hold north-south, transitions back and forth from north-south to side control, gi wraps from there, etc).
North-south kimura
Running escape
Turtle
Often (almost 100% of the time against somebody better than me, which is a looooooot of peopel) I will start off in running escape, trying to make my way to the top from there. But those three would cover off the majority of my BJJ (I could subdivide those a bunch, I guess, like the various way to hold north-south, transitions back and forth from north-south to side control, gi wraps from there, etc).
AKPurple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
In terms of how many you need, that's a whole different question. How many I personally use, most of the time, I'd say pretty much just three: North-south kimura Running escape Turtle Often (almost 100% of the time against somebody better than me, which is a looooooot of peopel) I will start off in running escape, trying to make my way to the top from there. But those three would cover off the majority of my BJJ (I could subdivide those a bunch, I guess, like the various way to hold north-south, transitions back and forth from north-south to side control, gi wraps from there, etc).
Well i'm sure that there's a pareto principle to it all, but there are still other techniques you need to cover off unavoidable situations. For example, if you're being a bit lazy in running man then someone can grab your leg and force you into ashi garami, so everyone needs an ashi escape
SJBlack belt 1st degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Well i'm sure that there's a pareto principle to it all, but there are still other techniques you need to cover off unavoidable situations. For example, if you're being a bit lazy in running man then someone can grab your leg and force you into ashi garami, so everyone needs an ashi escape
Ha - I started training in 2006, I can count the number of times I've been in ashi garami on one hand. Almost all of them in Charles' footlock class. :P
But yeah, the three techniques I referred to in my earlier post are for most, certainly not all, so I agree you naturally need other techniques to cover off all eventualities. Difference between what you need and what you use most of the time. ;)
I'd say a good 80% of the time I'm doing one of those three in most of my free sparring. Outside of that and in terms of what techniques I need to cover off eventualities, all the usual escapes, plus my guard game (which is basically sitting guard, trying to get an ankle pick, going to running escape when I fuck up. I hate open guard, hence why I've been drilling the hell out of Priit's approach to it over lockdown).
And yes, escaping from footlock nonsense, that's in the technique bank too. :P
But yeah, the three techniques I referred to in my earlier post are for most, certainly not all, so I agree you naturally need other techniques to cover off all eventualities. Difference between what you need and what you use most of the time. ;)
I'd say a good 80% of the time I'm doing one of those three in most of my free sparring. Outside of that and in terms of what techniques I need to cover off eventualities, all the usual escapes, plus my guard game (which is basically sitting guard, trying to get an ankle pick, going to running escape when I fuck up. I hate open guard, hence why I've been drilling the hell out of Priit's approach to it over lockdown).
And yes, escaping from footlock nonsense, that's in the technique bank too. :P
Edited 6 year(s) ago
