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Is a good arm bar essential?
6 year(s) ago • 12009 views • 36 replies
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Alex - while you will never probably be a triangle machine you still need to have the threat of triangle and connected attacks from one in one out bottom position. Also - having short and fat legs actually makes triangles easier to finish IF you can lock it in.
Without that threat, opponent will be too willing to pass certain ways.
Without that threat, opponent will be too willing to pass certain ways.
Black beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
Alex - while you will never probably be a triangle machine you still need to have the threat of triangle and connected attacks from one in one out bottom position. Also - having short and fat legs actually makes triangles easier to finish IF you can lock it in. Without that threat, opponent will be too willing to pass certain ways.
I have to agree here...
I'm not a short guy but I do have short, thick legs that aren't well suited to triangles. Now that I know how to effectively assemble triangles they are available more often and if they do dismantle they easily lead to something else (such as an armbar)...
Plus it's fun to see people eyes bulge before you fully lock off a triangle (this is a good point to smirk menically and whisper "this is what it feels like to die")...
You could also try the pyramid choke, it's essentially the triangle set up but you extend your legs away with your ankles crossed, there is a finesse to it I am yet to master though, angles and such, my old coach used it alot due to bad knees.
This is where I find most of my success with Armbars actually, as a response to an escape or something else... People will often leave an arm trailing behind in a number of circumstances and yes... You need a good armbar to capitalise or at least a firm grasp of the principals I mentioned in my original post.
I'm not a short guy but I do have short, thick legs that aren't well suited to triangles. Now that I know how to effectively assemble triangles they are available more often and if they do dismantle they easily lead to something else (such as an armbar)...
Plus it's fun to see people eyes bulge before you fully lock off a triangle (this is a good point to smirk menically and whisper "this is what it feels like to die")...
You could also try the pyramid choke, it's essentially the triangle set up but you extend your legs away with your ankles crossed, there is a finesse to it I am yet to master though, angles and such, my old coach used it alot due to bad knees.
This is where I find most of my success with Armbars actually, as a response to an escape or something else... People will often leave an arm trailing behind in a number of circumstances and yes... You need a good armbar to capitalise or at least a firm grasp of the principals I mentioned in my original post.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
Alex - while you will never probably be a triangle machine you still need to have the threat of triangle and connected attacks from one in one out bottom position. Also - having short and fat legs actually makes triangles easier to finish IF you can lock it in. Without that threat, opponent will be too willing to pass certain ways.
yeah what Jorgen said is true, one of my training partners was short and stocky. he hardly got me into triangles but when he did i usually had to tap fast, which was always quite surprising for me as usually im one like wim deputter who chills for ages in triangles and stays fine...
also the element of faking moves is useful considering you dont like triangles nor armbars. its important cause just like jorgen said if they know you never do a move they will exploit it so at least give them some threat.
also disliking both armbar and triangle makes it bigger of a problem as you are abandoning quite a big and complex part of attacks and attackchains...
yet i believe it is not necessarily a problem. if you really just cant seem to get to like those moves learn a way to avoid situations where you would have to depend on them...
probably if you keep that style up its gonna go like this: you will win matches for sure but every here and there you will clearly lose matches because you have been paired up with someone who can be only stopped well with triangles and armbars for example or who is simply good at exploiting somebody who doesnt do those. (i always say bjj is basically like pokemon, everyone has weaknesses and strenghts and it depends on whos paired up...lol)
this will probably go like that until you are a experienced grappler and have either embraced those moves or found excellent ways to avoid situations where your weaknesses show
i think you should accept and embrace them in training but maybe you will never do them in comp, but still doing them while training will overall improve your jiu jitsu, just like wrestlers often get told to play more from bottom while doing bjj to improve more.
i for example never liked passing all too much but still i kept doing it in training and to my surprise i happen to once in a while do a really slick pass in competitons even though its not really a part of my main game
either way its a hell of a ride, follow your instincts and develop your game. always stay open minded and carefully look at what you are doing, if it works keep it and refine it. if it doesnt change it...
maybe one day you will be a master at different attack chains for example a leglock+headlock kinda game with guilotines and heelhooks
if theres one thing i learned its that jiu jitsu of all martial arts is the one were you are most likely to find your own unique way if you have enough dedication.
also the element of faking moves is useful considering you dont like triangles nor armbars. its important cause just like jorgen said if they know you never do a move they will exploit it so at least give them some threat.
also disliking both armbar and triangle makes it bigger of a problem as you are abandoning quite a big and complex part of attacks and attackchains...
yet i believe it is not necessarily a problem. if you really just cant seem to get to like those moves learn a way to avoid situations where you would have to depend on them...
probably if you keep that style up its gonna go like this: you will win matches for sure but every here and there you will clearly lose matches because you have been paired up with someone who can be only stopped well with triangles and armbars for example or who is simply good at exploiting somebody who doesnt do those. (i always say bjj is basically like pokemon, everyone has weaknesses and strenghts and it depends on whos paired up...lol)
this will probably go like that until you are a experienced grappler and have either embraced those moves or found excellent ways to avoid situations where your weaknesses show
i think you should accept and embrace them in training but maybe you will never do them in comp, but still doing them while training will overall improve your jiu jitsu, just like wrestlers often get told to play more from bottom while doing bjj to improve more.
i for example never liked passing all too much but still i kept doing it in training and to my surprise i happen to once in a while do a really slick pass in competitons even though its not really a part of my main game
either way its a hell of a ride, follow your instincts and develop your game. always stay open minded and carefully look at what you are doing, if it works keep it and refine it. if it doesnt change it...
maybe one day you will be a master at different attack chains for example a leglock+headlock kinda game with guilotines and heelhooks
if theres one thing i learned its that jiu jitsu of all martial arts is the one were you are most likely to find your own unique way if you have enough dedication.
Purple beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
yeah what Jorgen said is true, one of my training partners was short and stocky. he hardly got me into triangles but when he did i usually had to tap fast, which was always quite surprising for me as usually im one like wim deputter who chills for ages in triangles and stays fine... also the element of faking moves is useful considering you dont like triangles nor armbars. its important cause just like jorgen said if they know you never do a move they will exploit it so at least give them some threat. also disliking both armbar and triangle makes it bigger of a problem as you are abandoning quite a big and complex part of attacks and attackchains... yet i believe it is not necessarily a problem. if you really just cant seem to get to like those moves learn a way to avoid situations where you would have to depend on them... probably if you keep that style up its gonna go like this: you will win matches for sure but every here and there you will clearly lose matches because you have been paired up with someone who can be only stopped well with triangles and armbars for example or who is simply good at exploiting somebody who doesnt do those. (i always say bjj is basically like pokemon, everyone has weaknesses and strenghts and it depends on whos paired up...lol) this will probably go like that until you are a experienced grappler and have either embraced those moves or found excellent ways to avoid situations where your weaknesses show i think you should accept and embrace them in training but maybe you will never do them in comp, but still doing them while training will overall improve your jiu jitsu, just like wrestlers often get told to play more from bottom while doing bjj to improve more. i for example never liked passing all too much but still i kept doing it in training and to my surprise i happen to once in a while do a really slick pass in competitons even though its not really a part of my main game either way its a hell of a ride, follow your instincts and develop your game. always stay open minded and carefully look at what you are doing, if it works keep it and refine it. if it doesnt change it... maybe one day you will be a master at different attack chains for example a leglock+headlock kinda game with guilotines and heelhooks if theres one thing i learned its that jiu jitsu of all martial arts is the one were you are most likely to find your own unique way if you have enough dedication.
Just one thing to clarify, I don't compete under IBJJF rules and never will, if it got to the stage where I wasn't competitive in the Gi,i would be fine to give it up and only do NoGi.
My plan A is always "get on top, stay on top". If i'm using my plan B because I did end up on the bottom, then i struggle to understand scenarios where triangles and arm bars are better than leg locks. I find butterfly guard sets up a lot of leg attacks and most guards can transition to butterfly guard. If i'm getting out-wrestled, why would I not just attack the legs?
You guys have a lot more experience than me so i'm testing my assumptions, rather than making declarations of fact here.
My plan A is always "get on top, stay on top". If i'm using my plan B because I did end up on the bottom, then i struggle to understand scenarios where triangles and arm bars are better than leg locks. I find butterfly guard sets up a lot of leg attacks and most guards can transition to butterfly guard. If i'm getting out-wrestled, why would I not just attack the legs?
You guys have a lot more experience than me so i'm testing my assumptions, rather than making declarations of fact here.
Black belt 2nd degreeVerified
6 year(s) ago
No, wrestling (scrambling for top) and leg locks is a really good combo for no gi :)
But if the opponent is better wrestler then going only for the legs might be a bit one dimensional.
But if the opponent is better wrestler then going only for the legs might be a bit one dimensional.
Black beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
For me armbar is one of my most trained techniques although it´s not my go to move as I prefer to get better control and end up with a RNC or if sombody expose his legs I´ll probably try to rip them off :D but I also always have the armbar in the back of my mind and can do it from quite a lot of positions and I think this makes it so great. Although it´s maybe not the most clever way to get a submission in MMA but I got 4 of 5 of mine armbar wins as counter to ground and pound of my opponent and only once I went from mount for the ambar (I would never recommend it due to the fact of giving up a great position). So yes for me it´s an essential move and if trained frequently you´ll probably hit it from all the different positions.
Brown beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I like that armbar variation from mount by Dave Camarillo:
https://youtu.be/oX-OrgA9BAY
My friend Roy Marsh showed me a similar one and the pressure from top was absolutely making me feel ver miserable
https://youtu.be/oX-OrgA9BAY
My friend Roy Marsh showed me a similar one and the pressure from top was absolutely making me feel ver miserable
Edited 6 year(s) ago
Black beltVerified
6 year(s) ago
I like that armbar variation from mount by Dave Camarillo: https://youtu.be/oX-OrgA9BAY My friend Roy Marsh showed me a similar one and the pressure from top was absolutely making me feel ver miserable
Very nice!


