I agree with William Murphy, this is an interesting social experiment. However, by and large I don't really see that being verified or not really matters.

There is nothing that I'm doing today that I won't be able to do tomorrow based on verification. Maybe once I'm a black belt and get stuck with a sufficient case of lunacy to want to start my own academy, having a non-IBJJF verification of some sort might matter, but until then I'm training under and teaching under Neury Gomes and Andre Galvao black belts... if they trust me, I'm good.

Aside from that hopefully eventually enough people who know me or know them get on here and get verified themselves.

Early days I guess, but I expect if this is actually used, your coach will vote for you and everyone that whipped on the back when you received it - and bingo you're verified. If you come from a legit school, your professor will have deep connections to the community and the process will likely go fast. A lot of this pushback has to do with instant gratification, which I find ironic in the BJJ community.

This.

I personally would put far more stock in a FREE verification process based on many people who know or at least know of you, than one from a big name organization that takes a lot of $$$ and just wants to see a signature from someone else who paid them a lot of $$$

Well Adam, conversely we can make all the same criticisms that people make about $$$ and the IBJJF

About BJJ black belts that charge their students $100 a month for training instead of teaching for free,

or at non-profit club prices.

Oh the hypocrisy of those black belts who charge high commercial prices yet also make that complaint...

Are you saying that I could buy a belt from a big name? Any one I know? How much?

@William - I'm not sure I understand the comparison. Someone charging $100/month for training also has overhead (rent, utilities, insurance, etc). That has nothing to do with a belt, and there's never a guarantee a belt will even be awarded. Even non-profits often have to charge enough dues to cover overhead, whatever that price may be.

All I am saying is that, to me, peer verification seems just as valid of a way - probably moreso - than the notion that a single big organization can charge everyone a lot of cash and declare themselves "the authority" over everyone. To say someone isn't legitimate just because they haven't paid the money to the organization is rather ridiculous, especially if there are dozens or even hundreds of people all over the world that can vouch and verify that they've been around forever.

If any old school member of the Gracie family doesn't join the IBJJF, does that mean they aren't legitimate? Of course not..... we ALL know their history.

That's all I'm saying

@Hannu - I wrote "org" originally instead of writing out "organization." I've edited and fixed. Never meant to imply a person, or that anyone could buy a belt from anyone. I was just disdaining the notion that unless you "pay" to have your rank validated by a single company, you aren't legitimate.

@Adam,

I don't think anybody here is saying that people who choose not to join the IBJJF are not legitimate.

Most IBJJF certified black belts don't take that position either, because we all good friends we respect who choose not to certify.

But, you see, the irony is the reverse on this site is not true.

Many posters are saying all kinds of not nice things about the IBJJF,

which really sounds like petty sour grapes.

So, what you mention about IBJJF black belts doing, they generally don't.

But many of the people on this board are doing in the reverse towards the IBJJF.

Which is somewhat ironic.

@William,

I'm confused...?? I actually like and agree with almost everything you've written in this post, but where exactly did I ever mention what ANY IBJJF black belts "are doing?"

To be clear, I'm not saying and have never said anyone is "buying a belt" - from the IBJJF or anyone else!

If an organization such as the IBJJF (or ANY other organiztion) wants to validate people on the basis of registering, taking referee certifications., tracking competition records, etc., that's great If they want to charge a fee, that's even expected!

But that business model isn't going to work for everyone, especially those who don't put a premium on the sport side of the art and/or just aren't involved heavily with team competitions. For myself, I live and teach in a very rural area. The nearest IBJJF tournaments I've heard of are 3 hours away. I am 50 years old myself, and my body has seen better days. My school is comprised mainly of people over the age of 30 who have families and careers and little to no interest in competition. Other than that "piece of paper" from the IBJJF saying I am "legit," I would get no benefit return on MY investment if I register with the IBJJF. I already have my promotion certificates to give me that legitimacy to my students, the skills on the mats to back it up if they doubt me, and my instructors are easily contacted for verification if someone still questions me. If someone else wants IBJJF certification, then more power to THEM!! It just doesn't benefit me in any way to do so, at least at this point in time.

So, I merely am applauding that there are additional ways to establish legitimacy beyond paying ANY single organization that does not cater to ALL practitioners and teachers of the art.

What does grieve me is that I have seen and experienced people on other websites (granted these were colored belts, not black belts!!) accuse anyone that is NOT registered with the IBJJF as being a fake/fraud. I was once even told my own purple belt certificate was "not legit" by an IBJJF competitior simply because it didn't come from the IBJJF. I simply disagree that I - or anyone - can ONLY be legitimate if we pay the IBJJF to say we are so. I think having only a single organization granting legitimacy would be dangerous to the art and wrong on multiple levels, as politics and greed always seem to enter the picture in ANY human endeavor....

The original post compared this site to a "popularity contest" rather than a true verification. While popularity is certainly an aspect - especially to the speed with which someone here can seemingly get verified while this site is still in its infancy - I do firmly believe that this "social experiment" of peer validation SHOULD BE a valid means of verifying if someone is legitimate or not. It should be just as legitimate when you have multiple black belts confirming you as it is to see an IBJJF (or any other organization) validation.

Just as with any "professional certification" outside of the martial arts, if someone questions a person's legitimacy, it's important to be able to have "some place" to point to and see some kind of proof based on a sensible and reasonable validation process and reputation. Whether it be a doctor, lawyer, nurse, or what have you. I think that it is good and beneficial to martial arts, especially Jiu Jitsu, to have something similar, but it doesn't need to be and shouldn't be just a single organization trusted to verify all.

Back to the original post, is this "popularity" site and social experiment going to enough? Possibly.... time will tell. I simply disagree with the idea - as you seem to also, Professor - that you HAVE TO be "IBJJF certified" to be legitimate. Didn't mean to offend anyone and wasn't trying to say bad things about anyone that IS registered with the IBJJF.

Not to be redundant here, but I'll state again: I think being registered/certified with the IBJJF is completely valid and respectable. I am simply of the opinion it shouldn't be the "only" acceptable means.

@Adam,

There are many paths to fitness, and that should be regarded as a good thing.

My old man rant was simply that.

I don't participate in the IBJJF because I care about my own rank recognition, or because I feel compelled to.

Rather, many of my students, and my students' students like to compete in their tournaments,

So just like the Judo org I belong to,

I jump through those hoops, so my students have the option of competing in those tournaments.

And I do not perceive much hassle difference between the IBJJF or the Judo orgs, really.

They also provide some benefits in return for those hoops.

So, such is life.

@William, and for that you have my respect.

I'm simply not in a similar situation. As a BJJ practitioner and teacher for nearly two decades, I am not yet a black belt myself, so "legitimacy" and rank recognition unfortunately has been an issue for me a few times. I think a site such as this one would have solved those issues long ago, as I have been around for a very long time and "used to" have a respectable and locally recognized competitiion team back in the early NAGA days.

Most of my students no longer compete, and we live in such a rural area that those who do mainly compete locally only - which excludes most IBJJF events. So my own "old man rant" is simply that I don't think the IBJJF is the only path to legitimacy.

You make plenty of valid points, Professor. They simply don't all apply to all of us. :-)

The only reason I am ibjjf certified, is same as Williams, so students and affiliates can enter IBJJF if they wish. I don’t see myself doing an ibjjf tournament, where I can’t do most of my game as it’s “illegal”.

I think grappling industries currently has a fantastic model, that fits my, and my students strengths.

@Adam, good that you cleared it. Not that I would have bought a belt. Not really any value in a belt that is bought.

I mean I have to buy my replacement belts when they wear down and break. Things are over $12 bucks now!

:)

@Adam,

If Nic promoted you to brown belt,

and Joe Moreira promoted you to purple belt,

That should be sufficient.

It sounds the real problem is not "IBJJF"

but your local competitors or others online

are making petty comments at you in a low and vulgar fashion.

If part of the reason is that you are no longer affiliated with Nic / Joe,

and you are a brown belt,

then that is not an issue of "IBJJF" or not,

that is an issue of people that might be willing to throw shade at you for being an unaffiliated brown belt school owner.

If that is the case, then I sympathize with you.

But, guaranteed, the IBJJF is not putting out nor authorizing a statement that Adam LaClair is not legitimate.

Although it would be perfectly legitimate for the IBJJF to report if asked that you were not registered with them, if you are not.

Registration and verification are different than legitimacy.

And low talk from low individuals who invoke an organization's name to justify their petty comments do so on their own.

That pretty much sums it up, right there! Thank you!

Currently I'm directly under Michael Desrosier (who is directly under Nic), so I am not "unaffiliated."

I got to see and train with Joe Moreira at a seminar this past last summer when he came to New England, which was the first time we've spoken since 2008. Life events and training logistics (very long story) made it impossible for me to see him for many years, which left me as an unaffiliated purple belt, and that fact was indeed used by a couple petty and unscrupulous individuals to try to give someone 15 minutes of fame at my and my students' expense.

I really do not have any qualms against the IBJJF itself. More just resentment towards those who tried to use my lack of connection to the IBJJF against me, and yes I realize the IBJJF itself isn't doing anything negative towards me at all. The IBJJF simply doesn't offer anything that my students or I "need," but yet it seems like certain people in certain circles treat the IBJJF like a kind of deity.

I guess I'm still just trying to move beyond what was said and done, and your points are both valid and helpful with that regard. Thank you!

Michael, since you claim this "IBJJF hater" (just kidding!),

I will vote for him.

And @Adam, my vote pushed you over the needed amount to vote on people yourself.

Now go research and vote on people yourself, so it is less work for me, please.

Thanks dad!

Ahhh, thanks GrandDad!! LMAO!